The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

[synergy]

What is The Word? How can the Word be with God and God at the same time? Why "The Word"?

 

[Runningman]

Between your inference and Thomas' explicit statement, I'll take Thomas' explicit statement. We're still piling on...

I just proved Jesus isn't God by the fact he has human hands. God doesn't have human hands nor is served by them. Are you saying that God can't help Himself? Then how did Jesus do anything?

 

[synergy]

I just proved Jesus isn't God by the fact he has human hands. God doesn't have human hands nor is served by them. Are you saying that God can't help Himself? Then how did Jesus do anything?

Huh? Not so. Read the verses more carefully. "He is not served by human hands" means that he has no need of our human hands. He is fully independent of our helping hands as he is the one who offers life, not the other way around. It's back to the drawing board for you.

 

[civic]

Unitarian theology is that there is one God the Father. That's it. That's what Judaism and all of the early Christians say. Closely note, none of them described the Trinity. Catching on yet?

Trinity teaches one God.

Next fallacy

 

[Runningman]

Huh? Not so. Read the verses more carefully. "He is not served by human hands" means that he has no need of our human hands. He is fully independent of our helping hands as he is the one who offers life, not the other way around. It's back to the drawing board for you.

You're almost there, but you seem to be glancing the point I am making. Everything you just said applies to Jesus as well. Jesus has human hands. God is fully independent of Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

Trinity teaches one God.

Next fallacy

It teaches three gods, contradicts it, and says there is one god. Sounds religious, but ultimately isn't biblical.

 

[synergy]

You're almost there, but you seem to be glancing the point I am making. Everything you just said applies to Jesus as well. Jesus has human hands. God is fully independent of Jesus.

I just haven't inserted your unitarian thoughts that are alien to the original sentence as you have. That's all.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Great! Now believe what John 1:1 says, not the JW butchered version, and you're Trinitarian. Easy Breezy.

If I become a Trinitarian, does that mean that God will forgive my sins? Or what specific blessing would that bring to my life?

 

[synergy]

If I become a Trinitarian, does that mean that God will forgive my sins? Or what specific blessing would that bring to my life?

We will all be spending an eternity in Heaven getting to know Jesus deeper and deeper, worshipping him along with the Father, and being enraptured in his presence. You want to be sure that you're worshipping the true Jesus.

As for forgiveness, a contrite heart God will never turn away from. Forgiveness is more of the heart than of the mind.

 

[Peterlag]

Again you misread

I never stated Jesus cannot be honored

I did state if Jesus accepted worship and if he was not God he sinned

Apostles refused worship

Angels refuse worship

The bible states

Luke 4:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Exodus 34:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Jesus can receive worship. And Jesus has no sin in him. God can be worshiped as God. Jesus can be worshiped as Jesus. You think and I don't know why that Jesus has to be worshiped as God. And he is not worshiped as God. He's worshiped as the son.

 

[Peterlag]

1. You will meet Him one day. Say it is His face then.
2. Sure there is.
3. Never had a pope.
4. They are right about a few things.
5. You don't even know what the word Catholic means. If you did, you would understand why Protestants and Catholics claim the same origins. Have you really been through Seminary and don't know this?

There's a guy that posted on here a few days ago that wrote a short sentence and I wrote him saying I love how he worded it. He wrote "I never cared for the Catholic doctrine or the philosophy of its protestant sisters."

 

[Peterlag]

I strongly disagree.
The Catholics have been right about the really relevant things

I disagree.
Doctrines introduced during the first 3 centuries, whether right or wrong, are not "Catholic".
Those Christians who introduced the concept of Trinity were as devote followers of Christ as those who rejected that doctrine.

I honestly would like to know what the Catholics ever taught that was correct.

 

[Peterlag]

You're right, Peterlag.
Thanks for your insight.

In the passage our brother @TomL has quoted indicates, Jesus is presenting Himself as Ambassador of the Father. So we should treat Jesus the way we would treat He who sent Him to the world.
If we want to honor God, we must honor The One God sent to the world. Otherwise we would be rejecting God.


John 5:19–23 (NASB 2020) — 19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in the same way. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

I never thought of it that way. I just found the verse late in life mostly because I was taught not to worship or pray to Jesus.

 

[TomL]

Jesus can receive worship. And Jesus has no sin in him. God can be worshiped as God. Jesus can be worshiped as Jesus. You think and I don't know why that Jesus has to be worshiped as God. And he is not worshiped as God. He's worshiped as the son.

Do you worship them equally?

Do you pray to the Son?

 

[MTMattie]

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

I just brought this point up in another thread,

Jesus said it, yet I have not observed one church teaching on it.

If they would then there would be less debate about this truth.

 

[MTMattie]

That begs the question

Assuming God cannot be more than one person

As a card carrying pro-/trin believer I ask why do you say... Assuming God cannot be more than one person.

Do you have trouble with the "God in 3 persons, blessed Trinity" concept?

why did Jesus instruct them to go baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.....

Why would He not have simply said Go baptize them in the name of the Father alone.

 

[synergy]

I just brought this point up in another thread,

Jesus said it, yet I have not observed one church teaching on it.

If they would then there would be less debate about this truth.

Those words are targeted to Pharisees who were steeped in OT writings and should have recognized that Jesus preexisted as the Angel of the Lord who called himself "I Am" to Moses. It was the continuous denial of this fact by the Pharisees that Jesus took exception to. His concern comes out clear and strong.

 

[MTMattie]

It would be plagiarism if I would claim the following words as my words:

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

 

[MTMattie]

I just proved Jesus isn't God by the fact he has human hands. God doesn't have human hands nor is served by them. Are you saying that God can't help Himself? Then how did Jesus do anything?

Explain EX 33:22.... (God YHWH is speaking to Moses. and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.

You have no concept of the spirit of God.

He also said "“Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”

If He has none of these then what is the throne He sits on in heaven?

 

[synergy]

for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

Absolutely correct for those who should know better like the Pharisees. I would not say this to a novice until they are well steeped in the word of God.