The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

[praise_yeshua]

You're promoting an idol... I'm promoting the Son of God and Messiah.

All I've seen you do it insist that Jesus is LESS than His Father. That isn't exalting Jesus Christ.

 

[Runningman]

All I've seen you do it insist that Jesus is LESS than His Father. That isn't exalting Jesus Christ.

God is the Father of Jesus and is the Father of all who are His sons and daughters. Yes? I am not God, are you? Then why is Jesus? Where are you getting this crazy idea that a human like you and I is God because he's the Son of God when others who are the Sons of God are not God?

 

[synergy]

God is the Father of Jesus and is the Father of all who are His sons and daughters. Yes? I am not God, are you? Then why is Jesus?

Because he said so in John 8:58. Do you believe him, yes or no?

Where are you getting this crazy idea that a human like you and I is God because he's the Son of God when others who are the Sons of God are not God?

If you don't believe Jesus when he declared himself the "I Am" OT God (John 8:58) then no way will you ever believe whatever we say about Jesus.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God is the Father of Jesus and is the Father of all who are His sons and daughters. Yes? I am not God, are you?

You judge Jesus Christ by yourself. Once again, here is the proof. I do not judge Jesus Christ by myself. You are not wise.....

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Then why is Jesus?

Glad you asked. Jesus is BETTER than you. Equal with the Father. He is altogether lovely. Perfect. Devoid of spot or blemish. Eternal. Without beginning or ending of days. Not created. Begotten. If you knew the Scriptures, you would know this. I encourage you to get to know the Scriptures.

Where are you getting this crazy idea that a human like you and I is God because he's the Son of God when others who are the Sons of God are not God?

You're not a God. I'm not a God. Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN of God. You were born of lesser stock. This is why Unitarians avoid discussions of the Hypostatic Union. The teaching makes clear that Jesus is MORE than just the seed of Mary.

You're horribly inept when it comes to knowing Jesus Christ.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You're horribly inept when it comes to knowing Jesus Christ.

Knowing Jesus Christ has nothing to do with hypostatic union.
It has to do with living the life of Jesus Christ.
Therefore, we are all horribly inept when it comes to knowing Jesus Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

You saw the early quotes concerning Jesus

Are you just going to ignore them?

He is Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, “Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness.” Barnabas (c. 70–130, E), 1.139.

Let us reverence the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was given for us. Clement of Rome (c. 96, W), 1.11.

God Himself was manifested in human form for the renewal of eternal life. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.58.

Continue in intimate union with Jesus Christ, our God. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.68.

I pray for your happiness forever in our God, Jesus Christ. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.96.

The Christians trace the beginning of their religion to Jesus the Messiah. He is called the Son of the Most High God. It is said that God came down from heaven. He assumed flesh and clothed Himself with it from a Hebrew virgin. And the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. Aristides (c. 125, E), 9.265.

Truly God Himself, who is Almighty, the Creator of all things, and invisible, has sent from heaven, and placed among men, the One who is the truth, and the holy and incomprehensible Word.… God did not, as one might have imagined, send to men any servant, angel, or ruler.… Rather, He sent the very Creator and Fashioner of all things—by whom He made the heavens.… As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so God sent Him. He sent Him as God. Letter to Diognetus (c. 125–200), 1.27.

Brethren, it is fitting that you should think of Jesus Christ as of God—as the Judge of the living and the dead. Second Clement (c. 150), 7.517.

We reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.166.

The Word, … He is Divine. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.166.

The Father of the universe has a Son. And He, being the First-Begotten Word of God, is even God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.184.

Next to God, we worship and love the Word who is from the unbeggoten and ineffable God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.193.

For Christ is King, Priest, God, Lord, Angel, and Man. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.211.

[TRYPHO, A JEW:] You utter many blasphemies, in that you seek to persuade us that this crucified man was with Moses and Aaron, and spoke to them in the pillar of the cloud. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.213.

Moses … declares that He who appeared to Abraham under the oak in Mamre is God. He was sent with the two angels in His company to judge Sodom by another One, who remains ever in the supercelestial places, invisible to all men, holding personal contact with no one. We believe this other One to be the Maker and Father of all things.… Yet, there is said to be another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things. And He is also called an Angel, because he announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things—above whom there is no other God—wishes to announce to them. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.223.

He deserves to be worshipped as God and as Christ. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.229.

David predicted that He would be born from the womb before the sun and moon, according to the Father’s will. He made Him known, being Christ, as God, strong and to be worshipped. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.237.

The Son ministered to the will of the Father. Yet, nevertheless, He is God, in that He is the First-Begotten of all creatures. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.262.

If you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the Only, Unbegotten, Unutterable God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.263.

“Rejoice, O you heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship Him” [Deut. 32:43]. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.264.

He is forever the first in power. For Christ, being the First-Born of every creature, became again the chief of another race regenerated by Himself through water, faith, and wood. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.268.

Then did the whole creation see clearly that for man’s sake the Judge was condemned, and the Invisible was seen, and the Illimitable was circumscribed, and the Impassible suffered, and the Immortal died, and the Celestial was laid in the grave. Melito (c. 170, E), 8.756.

God was put to death, the King of Israel slain! Melito (c. 170, E), 8.758.

There is the one God and the Logos proceeding from Him, the Son. We understand that the Son is inseparable from Him. Athenagoras (c. 175, E), 2.137.

God by His own Word and Wisdom made all things. Theophilus (c. 180, E), 2.91.

“Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of Your kingdom is a right scepter. You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity. Therefore, God, Your God, has anointed You.” For the Spirit designates by the name of God—both Him who is anointed as Son, and He who anoints, that is, the Father. And again, “God stood in the congregation of the gods; He judges among the gods.” Here he refers to the Father and the Son, and those who have received the adoption. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.419.

For He fulfills the bountiful and comprehensive will of His Father, inasmuch as He is Himself the Savior of those who are saved, and the Lord of those who are under authority, and the God of all those things that have been formed, the Only-Begotten of the Father. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.443.

I have shown from the Scriptures that none of the sons of Adam are, absolutely and as to everything, called God, or named Lord. But Jesus is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, Lord, King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word.… He is the Holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.449.

Thus He indicates in clear terms that He is God, and that His advent was in Bethlehem.… God, then, was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.451.

He is God, for the name Emmanuel indicates this. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.452.

Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spoke to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.467.

Now the father of the human race is the Word of God. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.505.

How can they be saved unless it was God who worked out their salvation upon earth? Or how shall man pass into God, unless God has first passed into man? Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.507.

It is plain that He was Himself the Word of God, who was made the son of man. He received from the Father the power of remission of sins. He was man, and He was God. This was so that since as man He suffered for us, so as God He might have compassion on us. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.545.

He is God in the form of man, stainless, the minister of His Father’s will, the Word who is God, who is in the Father, who is at the Father’s right hand. And with the form of God, He is God. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.210.

There is a suggestion of the divinity of the Lord in [Isaac’s] not being slain. Jesus rose again after His burial, having suffered no harm—just like Isaac was released from being sacrificed. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.215.

O the great God! O the perfect child! The Son in the Father and the Father in the Son.… God the Word, who became man for our sakes. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.215.

The Father of all is alone perfect, for the Son is in Him and the Father is in the Son. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.222.

Our Instructor is the holy God Jesus, the Word. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.223.

Nothing, then, is hated by God, nor yet by the Word. For both are one—that is, God. For He has said, “In the beginning the Word was in God, and the Word was God.” Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.225.

He who has the Almighty God, the Word, is in want of nothing. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.281.

Pointing to the First-Begotten Son, Peter writes, accurately comprehending the statement, “In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.” And He is called Wisdom by all the prophets. This is He who is the Teacher of all created beings. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.493.


David W. Bercot, ed., “Christ, Divinity Of,” A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1998), 93–95.

You post the writings of Catholic guys and then tell me I'm wrong for posting the data on them concerning the history of the trinity. Which Catholic guy do you want me to respond to since the Apostles never wrote about a trinity.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Knowing Jesus Christ has nothing to do with hypostatic union.
It has to do with living the life of Jesus Christ.
Therefore, we are all horribly inept when it comes to knowing Jesus Christ.

You can't live the life of Jesus Christ without faith in Jesus Christ. You have faith in yourself.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You post the writings of Catholic guys and then tell me I'm wrong for posting the data on them concerning the history of the trinity. Which Catholic guy do you want me to respond to since the Apostles never wrote about a trinity.

I'll bite.

The apostles never wrote about Unitarianism. There is no Greek or Hebrew equivalent to the English word Unitarianism.

If you had any experience at all, you would NOT use this argument. Trained Unitarians never do.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Because he said so in John 8:58. Do you believe him, yes or no?

Jesus didn't say so in John 8:58
He said: “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 8:58 points out to the preexistence and precedence of the Christ. Not about its deity.

If Jesus had wanted to say He was God, he would have said it explicitly and repeatedly.
Those words would have been across the four gospels, and the epistles.
There would have been no debate at all for centuries.

In contrast, that God is the Father of Jesus is said explicitly and repeatedly across almost every single book of the New Testament.

If you don't believe Jesus when he declared himself the "I Am" OT God (John 8:58) then no way will you ever believe whatever we say about Jesus.

Jesus did NOT declare Himself to be YHWH.
Jesus ALWAYS talked about YHWH in third person. Always.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus didn't say so in John 8:58
He said: “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

If Jesus had wanted to say He was God, he would have said it explicitly and repeatedly.

Here is a fundamental part of the failure of your argument......

There is a reason that Jesus didn't endlessly declare Himself to be God. Can you think of any possible reasons given the little you know about Scripture?

To the faithful, such things are easily recognized. You're not faithful. You are blinded to such things.

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

 

[Peterlag]

The words of the authors of the New Testament show us clearly that they believed in the Trinity concept, even though they didn't have a name for it. And this is no surprise. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth. In fact, it is from these words that we have the concept revealed to us, so they knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God and that each of them was distinct - shortly after Pentecost when the Holy Spirit fell on them and in the following years. Believers did not have to wait until a Creed or two were invented to know the truth. But you have said this before, so your argument is going in circles. And since this argument is easily refuted, maybe you should move on to all the voluminous data that someone on your side of the fence said that you guys have. Bring it on. We haven't seen any valid proof for your "interpretations". (And I'm not holding my breath, because I know you guys have none.)

Someone has well said: "The truth will always have the best argument." So far, your arguments have been very weak and inaccurate.

I have the truth but do not have a name for it so I can't tell you what it is. But now that I have the spirit of Christ I see clearly that what I have is the truth. I hope this helps. If you have trouble understanding what I just wrote. Then read what you just wrote.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You can't live the life of Jesus Christ without faith in Jesus Christ.

Having faith in Jesus Christ is living the life of Jesus Christ.
Otherwise it is not faith, but a bunch of theories about Jesus.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Having faith in Jesus Christ is living the life of Jesus Christ.

You have not faith in Jesus Christ. You don't believe Him. You can't show sincerity in faithless works. You believe you can prove yourself. All you're proving is your failures. We rest in Jesus Christ. You're combating Jesus Christ. Jacob did the same thing. He wrestled with God. Jacob wasn't a son simply because he was born to Abraham.

Otherwise it is not faith, but a bunch of theories about Jesus.

Unitarians pretend to mimic Jesus Christ. You're not. Just horrible cheap imitations. You can't be as good as Jesus Christ.

 

[synergy]

Jesus didn't say so in John 8:58
He said: “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 8:58 points out to the preexistence and precedence of the Christ. Not about its deity.

If Jesus had wanted to say He was God, he would have said it explicitly and repeatedly.
Those words would have been across the four gospels, and the epistles.
There would have been no debate at all for centuries.

In contrast, that God is the Father of Jesus is said explicitly and repeatedly across almost every single book of the New Testament.



Jesus did NOT declare Himself to be YHWH.
Jesus ALWAYS talked about YHWH in third person. Always.

You continue to not believe Jesus when he said he was the "I Am" God of the OT, the very same name that the OT God used to name himself in Ex 3:14. If you don't believe Jesus then there is absolutely nothing anybody else can do to convince you to believe what Jesus said

 

[Peterlag]

I'll bite.

The apostles never wrote about Unitarianism. There is no Greek or Hebrew equivalent to the English word Unitarianism.

If you had any experience at all, you would NOT use this argument. Trained Unitarians never do.

Jesus is not God and therefore words like Trinity, Unitarian, Computers and Cars are not mentioned because those things were not around when the Apostles were around.

 

[praise_yeshua]

words like Trinity, Unitarian, Computers and Cars are not mentioned because those things were not around when the Apostles were around.

I corrected it for you by removing your arbitrary nonsense. Do you know what the word arbitrary means?

Then why are you a Unitarian? You condemning Trinitarianism because the word is not found in ancient languages. The same is true of Unitarianism.

 

[Peterlag]

I corrected it for you by removing your arbitrary nonsense. Do you know what the word arbitrary means?

Then why are you a Unitarian? You condemning Trinitarianism because the word is not found in ancient languages. The same is true of Unitarianism.

If something does not exist. Then I see no reason to refer to myself as one who does not believe in something that does not exist. Thus, I don't refer to myself as an Uni-not-exist. I'm a Christian. And you?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Here is a fundamental part of the failure of your argument......

There is a reason that Jesus didn't endlessly declare Himself to be God. Can you think of any possible reasons given the little you know about Scripture?

To the faithful, such things are easily recognized. You're not faithful. You are blinded to such things.

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Dear readers:

What our brother @praise_yeshua presents is a very old argument that I have read hundreds of times from Forum participants in despair.
It is based on the circular proposition: "The king is not naked. It just happens that he's dressed with a type of clothes that only smart people can see" and has thousands of variants, such as

You can't understand me because only born-again people can understand those things
You can't understand me because only those illuminated by the Holy Spirit can understand those things
You can't understand me because only the faithful can understand those things

This is a very understandable human reaction. Why the other person see what I see? It must be because there is something wrong with him/her

Certainly, our personal biases act like a "veil" that impairs a seamless flow of ideas. We all have those biases. We all have those veils, and onnlynly God can lift them, at certain times and circumstances, according to his sovereign wisdom.

 

[TomL]

You post the writings of Catholic guys and then tell me I'm wrong for posting the data on them concerning the history of the trinity. Which Catholic guy do you want me to respond to since the Apostles never wrote about a trinity.

Sorry, there was no formulized Roman Catholic Church is those early days

And all the quotes are pre 300 a.D.

You saw the early quotes concerning Jesus

Are you just going to ignore them?

He is Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, “Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness.” Barnabas (c. 70–130, E), 1.139.

Let us reverence the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was given for us. Clement of Rome (c. 96, W), 1.11.

God Himself was manifested in human form for the renewal of eternal life. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.58.

Continue in intimate union with Jesus Christ, our God. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.68.

I pray for your happiness forever in our God, Jesus Christ. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.96.

The Christians trace the beginning of their religion to Jesus the Messiah. He is called the Son of the Most High God. It is said that God came down from heaven. He assumed flesh and clothed Himself with it from a Hebrew virgin. And the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. Aristides (c. 125, E), 9.265.

Truly God Himself, who is Almighty, the Creator of all things, and invisible, has sent from heaven, and placed among men, the One who is the truth, and the holy and incomprehensible Word.… God did not, as one might have imagined, send to men any servant, angel, or ruler.… Rather, He sent the very Creator and Fashioner of all things—by whom He made the heavens.… As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so God sent Him. He sent Him as God. Letter to Diognetus (c. 125–200), 1.27.

Brethren, it is fitting that you should think of Jesus Christ as of God—as the Judge of the living and the dead. Second Clement (c. 150), 7.517.

We reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.166.

The Word, … He is Divine. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.166.

The Father of the universe has a Son. And He, being the First-Begotten Word of God, is even God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.184.

Next to God, we worship and love the Word who is from the unbeggoten and ineffable God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.193.

For Christ is King, Priest, God, Lord, Angel, and Man. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.211.

[TRYPHO, A JEW:] You utter many blasphemies, in that you seek to persuade us that this crucified man was with Moses and Aaron, and spoke to them in the pillar of the cloud. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.213.

Moses … declares that He who appeared to Abraham under the oak in Mamre is God. He was sent with the two angels in His company to judge Sodom by another One, who remains ever in the supercelestial places, invisible to all men, holding personal contact with no one. We believe this other One to be the Maker and Father of all things.… Yet, there is said to be another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things. And He is also called an Angel, because he announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things—above whom there is no other God—wishes to announce to them. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.223.

He deserves to be worshipped as God and as Christ. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.229.

David predicted that He would be born from the womb before the sun and moon, according to the Father’s will. He made Him known, being Christ, as God, strong and to be worshipped. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.237.

The Son ministered to the will of the Father. Yet, nevertheless, He is God, in that He is the First-Begotten of all creatures. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.262.

If you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the Only, Unbegotten, Unutterable God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.263.

“Rejoice, O you heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship Him” [Deut. 32:43]. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.264.

He is forever the first in power. For Christ, being the First-Born of every creature, became again the chief of another race regenerated by Himself through water, faith, and wood. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.268.

Then did the whole creation see clearly that for man’s sake the Judge was condemned, and the Invisible was seen, and the Illimitable was circumscribed, and the Impassible suffered, and the Immortal died, and the Celestial was laid in the grave. Melito (c. 170, E), 8.756.

God was put to death, the King of Israel slain! Melito (c. 170, E), 8.758.

There is the one God and the Logos proceeding from Him, the Son. We understand that the Son is inseparable from Him. Athenagoras (c. 175, E), 2.137.

God by His own Word and Wisdom made all things. Theophilus (c. 180, E), 2.91.

“Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of Your kingdom is a right scepter. You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity. Therefore, God, Your God, has anointed You.” For the Spirit designates by the name of God—both Him who is anointed as Son, and He who anoints, that is, the Father. And again, “God stood in the congregation of the gods; He judges among the gods.” Here he refers to the Father and the Son, and those who have received the adoption. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.419.

For He fulfills the bountiful and comprehensive will of His Father, inasmuch as He is Himself the Savior of those who are saved, and the Lord of those who are under authority, and the God of all those things that have been formed, the Only-Begotten of the Father. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.443.

I have shown from the Scriptures that none of the sons of Adam are, absolutely and as to everything, called God, or named Lord. But Jesus is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, Lord, King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word.… He is the Holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.449.

Thus He indicates in clear terms that He is God, and that His advent was in Bethlehem.… God, then, was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.451.

He is God, for the name Emmanuel indicates this. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.452.

Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spoke to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.467.

Now the father of the human race is the Word of God. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.505.

How can they be saved unless it was God who worked out their salvation upon earth? Or how shall man pass into God, unless God has first passed into man? Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.507.

It is plain that He was Himself the Word of God, who was made the son of man. He received from the Father the power of remission of sins. He was man, and He was God. This was so that since as man He suffered for us, so as God He might have compassion on us. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.545.

He is God in the form of man, stainless, the minister of His Father’s will, the Word who is God, who is in the Father, who is at the Father’s right hand. And with the form of God, He is God. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.210.

There is a suggestion of the divinity of the Lord in [Isaac’s] not being slain. Jesus rose again after His burial, having suffered no harm—just like Isaac was released from being sacrificed. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.215.

O the great God! O the perfect child! The Son in the Father and the Father in the Son.… God the Word, who became man for our sakes. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.215.

The Father of all is alone perfect, for the Son is in Him and the Father is in the Son. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.222.

Our Instructor is the holy God Jesus, the Word. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.223.

Nothing, then, is hated by God, nor yet by the Word. For both are one—that is, God. For He has said, “In the beginning the Word was in God, and the Word was God.” Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.225.

He who has the Almighty God, the Word, is in want of nothing. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.281.

Pointing to the First-Begotten Son, Peter writes, accurately comprehending the statement, “In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.” And He is called Wisdom by all the prophets. This is He who is the Teacher of all created beings. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.493.


David W. Bercot, ed., “Christ, Divinity Of,” A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1998), 93–95.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You continue to not believe Jesus when he said he was the "I Am" God of the OT, the very same name that the OT God used to name himself in Ex 3:14. If you don't believe Jesus then there is absolutely nothing anybody else can do to convince you to believe what Jesus said

Good morning synergy

There is absolutely nothing you or anybody else can do to convince me that Jesus is YHWH, the Only and True God.
I have read the Scriptures many times. I have defended the Trinitarian position. I know every single argument our brothers have brought to the Forum... and it is OK. Let's not get frustrated about this.

To ease our frustration, let's remember that theologians have been debating this FOR CENTURIES! Have they agreed?

So, let's take this as a game of chess in which we develop skills to debate, get to know better our own arguments, and more importantly, get to know better the people we debate with. They are not silly, nor perverse. They have reasons to believe what they believe.