praise_yeshua
Well-known member
BTW... I haven't murdered anyone. You don't mind falsely accusing others do you?
The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.
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BTW... I haven't murdered anyone. You don't mind falsely accusing others do you?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
He doesn't even understand the meaning of the "right hand" of God.
Runningman
Well-known member
If you still think it's stupid then the subject won't change. How is a reference to two Gods in one sentence with only one of them being called The God not a reference to two seperate Gods?
Runningman
Well-known member
The same exact bad logic you applied to John 1:2-3 became your enemy in 1 John 5:20. This is clear evidence you interpret the Bible around theology rather than around Scripture, context, reason, and logic. Thus the incomprehensible mystery that is Trinitarianism.
Runningman
Well-known member
You're all over the place Tom. Why not just be honest and admit you didn't originally ask what you claimed you did? It's not a big deal. People make honest mistakes and forget things. There is no shame in it, but why would you publicly be dishonest about what you said when I will absolutely not let you live that down for at least a couple more comments?
Runningman
Well-known member
So you don't believe the most ancient of manuscripts? The scholarly community does. It proves that the idea that was in circulation in the earliest church, the time we can account for that was as close as possible to the starting point, was that people were not believing Jesus is God. Age of a manuscript, though not the be-all-end-all is a major factor in credibility and you reject it with laughing tears. Amazing. Paul would be rolling in his grave if he could witness this.Heretics (Unitarians, Judaizers, Muslims, JWs, etc...) are all the same. They all seem to have come from the same school. First they say that the Bible aligns with their beliefs. And when they realize that the Bible doesn't align then they start to disparage it as being altered/corrupted. The Bible then becomes your Bible. It's like when your wife says to talk to your son about something he's done.
CC: @praise_yeshua , @civic
Runningman
Well-known member
No just Christian. Are you a pagan? There are many pagan religions that believe in a trinity god. Which one do you belong to?
"The Word was God" means that the Word possesses the full attributes of God. The Word is God by nature. Do you understand so far? Stop conflating nature and person. They are not the same.
You really do need to give it up as you are looking rather silly
John 1:1–18 (UASV) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him, not one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overpowered it. 6 A man was sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This one came as a witness, in order that he could bear witness about the light, so that all might believe through him. 8 That one was not the light but came that he might bear witness about the light. 9 The true light, who gives light to every man, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him, and the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own people, and his own people did not receive him. 12 On the other hand, as many as received him, he gave authority to them to become children of God, to the ones believing in his name; 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only begotten one from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, saying, “This one was he about whom I said, the one who comes after me is ahead of me: because he existed before me.”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, that one has made him fully known.
Hello the word was made flesh they beheld his glory - the glory of the only begotten of the father
hello
Who was the only begotten of the father?
Do you need a clue as you appear clueless as to how to exegete this passage?
It's Jesus Christ
Hello
The word was with God
The word was God(deity not the Father)
The word created all things nothing was made without him
(Your understanding of the grammar was shown erroneous)
He was in world having become flesh
Men saw his glory as the only begotten of the Father
hello
It's not a mystery who that is
Again give it up as you do not have a leg to stand on
r
Runningman
Well-known member
In John 1 there is just plain "theos" and then there is the theos with "ton Theon." A God who is not "THE GOD" is a god with the God. Soundly supported by the Greek and English grammar. Seems you can't get past this.
civic
Well-known member
someone had mentioned you might be so that is why I asked. I didn't think you were but just wanted to clarify for the members here.
I'm with a non denominational church that believes in the Trinity, Deity of Christ, salvation by faith apart from works, the 66 books are the inspired word of God, the gospel and missions just to name a few. I teach home groups and mens discipleship there on Thursday mornings and Saturday mornings.
Why don't you invest some time in remedial reading.
You clearly need the help
As you handle scripture just as poorly as you handle my words
civic
Well-known member
so when just theos is used everywhere else in scripture its just a little god not The God ?
is this your position or just in this isolated verse ?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I mean seriously.... WHAT?
You can't even get past "the Word was God" without mangling it altogether. John 1 is your Waterloo. That's where unitarianism surrenders.
civic
Well-known member
its a mess which means every instance where there is no definite article it doesn't refer to the " one" God of the Bible.
A god is not an impersonal thing as your doctrine holds.
You demonstrate you are all over the place adopting arguments contrary to your own view.
That should tell you and all others you are willing to adopt any excuse to deny what you do not like.
He argues as one willing to adopt any excuse to deny the fact the Word was God (deity not the father)
Runningman
Well-known member
The God's word translation calls the Word an it in John 1:14 and 1 John 1:1-3 calls the Word an it in most versions, but your reply only proves to me how inept you are.Where do you get the "it" from????
δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός literally translates to Glory for only child of the Father.
(John 1:14) Καὶ ὁ Λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας.
Your Greek is the pits, man.
The way to tell whether the pronoun is masculine, or feminine, or neuter is to understand the context of what is being discussed. This applies to when Greek is translated into English as well, but it doesn't necessarily depend on the gender of the word in Greek. For example, the Holy Spirit is in the neuter in Greek but masculine pronouns are typically applied in translating to English.
So the fact that the Word is masculine doesn't necessarily matter. The subject is more important.
Since the Word is an it in 1 John 1:1-3 then the Word can be an it in John 1:14. The Greek proves it.
civic
Well-known member
agreed ! its the way of the unitarian. John Milton was the worst on the old forum.
He went on record stating he would rather spend an eternity in hell suffering than to be the Trinitarian God in heaven. That's how stubborn and blind some can be which is a shame.
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