The Trinity and the Incarnation

[civic]

So... what's your point exactly? Are you saying God had to manually create the universe with a hammer, nails, and duct tape because He can't use words and thoughts to create?

I said God created the world and the Word was/is God. The Word is a Person known as Jesus- Revelation 19:13. The Word is the Eternal God the creator of all things as many passages declare about Him. In Colossians its the Son, in Hebrews its the Son/Lord, In John 1 He is the Word, in 1 Corinthians He is the Lord Jesus Christ. In Genesis 1 He is YHWH.

All things in the context with the Son/Word/Jesus is the original creation account of Genesis. John 1:3; John 1:10; Ephesians 3:9; Hebrews 1:2

Thayers : πάντα, in an absolute sense, all things that exist, all created things: John 1:3; Colossians 1:17; Revelation 21:5; Romans 9:5

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[Runningman]

I said God created the world and the Word was/is God. The Word is a Person known as Jesus- Revelation 19:13. The Word is the Eternal God the creator of all things as many passages declare about Him. In Colossians its the Son, in Hebrews its the Son/Lord, In John 1 He is the Word, in 1 Corinthians He is the Lord Jesus Christ. In Genesis 1 He is YHWH.

All things in the context with the Son/Word/Jesus is the original creation account of Genesis. John 1:3; John 1:10; Ephesians 3:9; Hebrews 1:2

Thayers : πάντα, in an absolute sense, all things that exist, all created things: John 1:3; Colossians 1:17; Revelation 21:5; Romans 9:5

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There is no example of the Word in the Bible acting as a sentient being. There is only God who is said to have spoken and created by speaking as Genesis 1 says. So yes, God can create using words according to Scripture. No, Jesus isn't YHWH according to anything the Bible states.

There is nothing in the Bible they says creating was a joint act. So your theory doesn't really work.

Isaiah 44
24Thus says the LORD,
your Redeemer who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD,
who has made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who by Myself spread out the earth,

 

[civic]

There is no example of the Word in the Bible acting as a sentient being. There is only God who is said to have spoken and created by speaking as Genesis 1 says. So yes, God can create using words according to Scripture. No, Jesus isn't YHWH according to anything the Bible states.

There is nothing in the Bible they says creating was a joint act. So your theory doesn't really work.

Isaiah 44
24Thus says the LORD,
your Redeemer who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD,
who has made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who by Myself spread out the earth,

another fallacy since I have given the scriptures proving the Word in John 1:1 cf Rev 19:13 is a Person named Jesus who is identified as God and responsible for all creation, created things, all things, everything.

running away from the passages do nnot help you and in fact destroy your argument.

The above is clear its the Son who alone is the Redeemer, the One Lord/Only Lord in the bible- 1 Cor 8:6; Jude 1:4

Every verse you run to instead of addressing the ones I posted support me, not you. Oh the irony.

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hope this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

another fallacy since I have given the scriptures proving the Word in John 1:1 cf Rev 19:13 is a Person named Jesus who is identified as God and responsible for all creation, created things, all things, everything.

running away from the passages do nnot help you and in fact destroy your argument.

The above is clear its the Son who alone is the Redeemer, the One Lord/Only Lord in the bible- 1 Cor 8:6; Jude 1:4

Every verse you run to instead of addressing the ones I posted support me, not you. Oh the irony.

next fallacy

hope this helps !!!

Like a trapped mouse, he runs to and fro desperately seeking a hole he can escape to. There's no escape for virus-infected heretics.

 

[Runningman]

another fallacy since I have given the scriptures proving the Word in John 1:1 cf Rev 19:13 is a Person named Jesus who is identified as God and responsible for all creation, created things, all things, everything.

running away from the passages do nnot help you and in fact destroy your argument.

The above is clear its the Son who alone is the Redeemer, the One Lord/Only Lord in the bible- 1 Cor 8:6; Jude 1:4

Every verse you run to instead of addressing the ones I posted support me, not you. Oh the irony.

next fallacy

hope this helps !!!

Yes you are required to demonstrate how your interpretation is correct in the broader Scope of Scripture. Lacking supporting evidence is problematic for you because you don't have much to bolster your claims with. If the Word is God with God, we should expect to see some evidence of that throughout the Bible, yet there is none. You are effectively promoting a straw man.

Thanks for quoting 1 Corinthians 8:6. You have just shot yourself in the foot, so to speak, with that one since it explicitly identifies who the one God is: the Father.

1 Corinthians 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

 

[civic]

Yes you are required to demonstrate how your interpretation is correct in the broader Scope of Scripture. Lacking supporting evidence is problematic for you because you don't have much to bolster your claims with. If the Word is God with God, we should expect to see some evidence of that throughout the Bible, yet there is none. You are effectively promoting a straw man.

Thanks for quoting 1 Corinthians 8:6. You have just shot yourself in the foot, so to speak, with that one since it explicitly identifies who the one God is: the Father.

1 Corinthians 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

And the Father is not Lord using your own passage and reasoning. So everything the word Lord is used as Deity it refers to Christ in the Bible.

Nest failed argument

 

[Runningman]

And the Father is not Lord using your own passage and reasoning. So everything the word Lord is used as Deity it refers to Christ in the Bible.

Nest failed argument

Nonsense.

Which Lord sent Jesus Christ then?

Acts 3
20that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you.

 

[Kampioen]

Yes you are required to demonstrate how your interpretation is correct in the broader Scope of Scripture. Lacking supporting evidence is problematic for you because you don't have much to bolster your claims with. If the Word is God with God, we should expect to see some evidence of that throughout the Bible, yet there is none. You are effectively promoting a straw man.

Thanks for quoting 1 Corinthians 8:6. You have just shot yourself in the foot, so to speak, with that one since it explicitly identifies who the one God is: the Father.

1 Corinthians 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Jesus became a man ie subjectively a non-God, who would call God His Father.

But then how is Jesus through whom all things came and through whom we exist?

 

[charismaticlady]

Nonsense.

Which Lord sent Jesus Christ then?

Acts 3
20that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you.

Titus 2:13. 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

 

[Runningman]

Titus 2:13. 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

So you're saying you believe Jesus is the Father?

Titus 1
4To Titus, my true child in our common faith:
Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus became a man ie subjectively a non-God, who would call God His Father.

But then how is Jesus through whom all things came and through whom we exist?

It comes down to interpretation. "All" doesn't literally mean everything in every context. Sometimes it is limited to the context of what is being talked about. An example from every day life, if you will, is ordering a sandwich at the shop and they ask "what would you like on it?" If you said "a little bit of all." They wouldn't put the kitchen sink on it, sand, clothing, pickles, lettuce, and everything else under the sun on it would they? The sandwich maker would hopefully understand the context like a rational person and just put the sandwich ingredients only.

Christians in that time already knew God is the Father only so they wouldn't have been confused like how trinitarians are about the Bible nowadays.

There are many examples of where "all" and "everything" in the Bible is specifically about a context.

 

[charismaticlady]

So you're saying you believe Jesus is the Father?

Titus 1
4To Titus, my true child in our common faith:
Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.

What does Titus 2:13 say in the version of the Bible you are referring to? Simple question. Titus 1:4 is a greeting. It says nothing about the Father appearing.

 

[Runningman]

What does Titus 2:13 say in the version of the Bible you are referring to? Simple question. Titus 1:4 is a greeting. It says nothing about the Father appearing.

Yes, for real, Titus 2:13 is about two different persons. Paul never spoke of Jesus as God anywhere in any of his letters so it wouldn't make sense to suddenly do that and then never do it again after.

Trinitarians corrupted Titus 2:13 after Granville Sharp invented a new theology for interpreting Scripture in the late 18th century. His book is called, "Remarks on the Uses of the Definitive Article in the Greek Text of the New Testament." He invented a new "rule" for English grammar, but it's not recognized nor accepted by academia. The only people who accept it are people who think it helps their theology. In any case, trinitarians use it for justifying the way they mistranslate Scripture. So most modern Bibles do not follow the word order of the Greek-to-English translation for Titus 2:13 because it helps them obscure the truth a little better. However, Titus 1:4 didn't do them any favors because it contains the word Father. No way to confuse the issue because we know Jesus is not the Father.

 

[charismaticlady]

Yes, for real, Titus 2:13 is about two different persons. Paul never spoke of Jesus as God anywhere in any of his letters so it wouldn't make sense to suddenly do that and then never do it again after.

Trinitarians corrupted Titus 2:13 after Granville Sharp invented a new theology for interpreting Scripture in the late 18th century. His book is called, "Remarks on the Uses of the Definitive Article in the Greek Text of the New Testament." He invented a new "rule" for English grammar, but it's not recognized nor accepted by academia. The only people who accept it are people who think it helps their theology. In any case, trinitarians use it for justifying the way they mistranslate Scripture. So most modern Bibles do not follow the word order of the Greek-to-English translation for Titus 2:13 because it helps them obscure the truth a little better. However, Titus 1:4 didn't do them any favors because it contains the word Father. No way to confuse the issue because we know Jesus is not the Father.

Who did Jesus mean He was when He said: "Before Abraham was, I Am." Who is the I Am of the burning bush? If not the I Am of the burning bush, why did the Pharisees want to stone Him?

 

[Runningman]

Who did Jesus mean He was when He said: "Before Abraham was, I Am." Who is the I Am of the burning bush? If not the I Am of the burning bush, why did the Pharisees want to stone Him?

They wanted to kill Jesus for something he had said prior to saying "“before Abraham was born, I am!"

The wanted to kill him because of his comments about being the light of the world, how his authority comes from the Father, that they would die in their sins, that they didn't know God, basically called them frauds, said their father is the devil, etc. Basically they got ticked off and publicly humiliated. The comment they misunderstood about being before Abraham might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

John 8
37I know you are Abraham’s descendants, but you are trying to kill Me because My word has no place within you.
40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.

Jesus' statement about being before Abraham doesn't have any connection to the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14,15. Jesus was referring to being prophesied before Abraham as the coming Messiah.

 

[charismaticlady]

They wanted to kill Jesus for something he had said prior to saying "“before Abraham was born, I am!"

The wanted to kill him because of his comments about being the light of the world, how his authority comes from the Father, that they would die in their sins, that they didn't know God, basically called them frauds, said their father is the devil, etc. Basically they got ticked off and publicly humiliated. The comment they misunderstood about being before Abraham might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

John 8
37I know you are Abraham’s descendants, but you are trying to kill Me because My word has no place within you.
40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.

Jesus' statement about being before Abraham doesn't have any connection to the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14,15. Jesus was referring to being prophesied before Abraham as the coming Messiah.

Interesting reasoning.

You never answered a previous question. Who's spirit is the Holy Spirit that we must have to be born again?

 

[Peterlag]

Interesting reasoning.

You never answered a previous question. Who's spirit is the Holy Spirit that we must have to be born again?

It's God's spirit that he sometimes calls the spirit of His son...

In Galatians 4:6, it's called the spirit of his son.
In Romans 8:9, it calls this spirit the spirit of Christ.
In 1 Corinthians 3:16, it calls it the spirit of God that dwells in us.
In Romans 8:11, it calls this spirit the spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead and that it dwells in us.

 

[charismaticlady]

It's God's spirit that he sometimes calls the spirit of His son...

In Galatians 4:6, it's called the spirit of his son.
In Romans 8:9, it calls this spirit the spirit of Christ.
In 1 Corinthians 3:16, it calls it the spirit of God that dwells in us.
In Romans 8:11, it calls this spirit the spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead and that it dwells in us.

If it is God's spirit, that God calls the spirit of His son, then God is calling Jesus, God as He did in Hebrews 1. You aren't even going to accept God's acknowledgement though are you? But I do. After all, the word, God, is a plural word, not singular. The three are one. Like the title "management." "That is against the rules of management."

I thought you wanted to accept Truth and let Truth change your man-made beliefs. I did. And I had been raised in a cult and had a lot to undo. But now I see the simplicity of the gospel and its power.

 

[Peterlag]

If it is God's spirit, that God calls the spirit of His son, then God is calling Jesus, God as He did in Hebrews 1. You aren't even going to accept God's acknowledgement though are you? But I do. After all, the word, God, is a plural word, not singular. The three are one. Like the title "management." "That is against the rules of management."

I thought you wanted to accept Truth and let Truth change your man-made beliefs. I did. And I had been raised in a cult and had a lot to undo. But now I see the simplicity of the gospel and its power.

I cannot find one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. Trinitarians piece together statements that are scattered all over the Bible. They basically use bits and pieces of words and half verses along with their own human reasoning, imagination, speculation and assumptions as they pick one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here, and a clue there, and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human thinking. This is why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Such an important subject matter like the Trinity and the Bible is silent on all of it.

 

[charismaticlady]

I cannot find one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. Trinitarians piece together statements that are scattered all over the Bible. They basically use bits and pieces of words and half verses along with their own human reasoning, imagination, speculation and assumptions as they pick one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here, and a clue there, and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human thinking. This is why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Such an important subject matter like the Trinity and the Bible is silent on all of it.

Thomas said it. Why didn't Jesus correct him? The apostles knew He was God. How could He take away our sin and create in us a new nature if He wasn't God? Jesus is the creator of this earth, sun and moon and everything else that exists. And you keep saying He isn't God.

Many people believe in order to be saved we must believe that Jesus is God. I don't as I know I was saved before I received the Spirit filled truth, a rhema, that Jesus was and is God in the flesh.