The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[TomL]

People often say I'm wrong when I post this because they say I looked it up in an Interlinear or Concordance and it shows the word is a "him" and not an "it." Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means. The pronoun is an "it" when it refers to an inanimate noun like the "Word" because Greek has grammatical gender and the "Word" in John 1 is a thing so the Greek says it's an "it."

As was stated

You are simply denying scripture

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

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the		Light		of		men
ὁ		φῶς				ὁ ἄνθρωπος
DNSN		NNSN				DGPM NGPM

Theos - Masculine

Logos - Masculine

autos - Masculine

Regarding this masculine Logos who is with and is God

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28–29 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 2:36–39 (NASB 95) — 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Acts 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Hebrews 1:9 (NASB 95) — 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

Hebrews 1:10 (NASB 95) — 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB 95) — 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

 

[Peterlag]

The Word did become the male person Jesus. Whether you like it or not, that is a fact. While it may be true that the word for "Word" (Logos) is an it, the "Word" then took on flesh in the form of a man known as Jesus, and so it is completely proper to call it a "Him".

The Word was not a God and that Word did not turn into Jesus.

 

[TomL]

The Word was not a God and that Word did not turn into Jesus.

Scripture is contrary to your claims

John 1:1–14 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

confirmed here

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

 

[Doug Brents]

God cannot do anything. If He could He would not have waited 4 thousand years to come up with Mary. He also cannot lie and He cannot die and He probably cannot make a square circle. And there's no teaching in the Bible that mentions or explains a 100 percent man and a 100 percent God at the same time.

God can do anything that does not violate His character. No, He cannot die, because He is the source of all life (as is Jesus, since He created all things and says He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6). And He cannot lie, because that would violate His character.

There are several places where the 100% humanity of Jesus are stated and explained. There are also several places in Scripture where the 100% deity of Jesus is stated and explained. You choose to only accept and understand the Scriptures that state His humanity. But your blindness does not negate the Scripture. Just because you don't accept His deity doesn't mean that He is not God. It just means that you have denied Jesus.

 

[Doug Brents]

The Word was not a God and that Word did not turn into Jesus.

The Word was not "A" God. The Word was GOD! And the Word did take on flesh in the form of the man we know as Jesus. You are denying Scripture again.

 

[Peterlag]

Scripture is contrary to your claims

John 1:1–14 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

confirmed here

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Morning, noon, and night you guy post the same Scripture and then question me for posting the same response.

The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

After saying that Christ was in the form of God, Philippians 2:6 goes on to say that Christ “considered being equal with God not something to be grasped at.” If Jesus were God, then it would make no sense at all to say that he did not “grasp” at equality with God because no one grasps at equality with himself. Some Trinitarians say, “Well, he was not grasping for equality with the Father.” That is not what the verse says. It says Christ did not grasp at equality with God, which makes the verse nonsense if he were God.

The Greek word morphē does not refer to the essential nature of Christ in that context. If the point of the verse is to say that Jesus is God, then why not just say that? If Jesus is God, say that, don’t say he has the “essential nature of God.” Of course God has the “essential nature” of God, so why would anyone make that point? This verse does not say “Jesus being God” but rather “being in the form of God.” Paul is reminding the Philippians that Jesus represented the Father in every possible way.

From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.

The trinitarian has only 3 to pick from...

1.) Use a verse from a bad translation.
2.) Use a verse that is taken out of context.
3.) Not understand how the words were used in the culture they were written in.

And basically that's all trinitarians have. And I mean 100 percent of what they have. They have nothing else.

 

[Peterlag]

God can do anything that does not violate His character. No, He cannot die, because He is the source of all life (as is Jesus, since He created all things and says He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6). And He cannot lie, because that would violate His character.

There are several places where the 100% humanity of Jesus are stated and explained. There are also several places in Scripture where the 100% deity of Jesus is stated and explained. You choose to only accept and understand the Scriptures that state His humanity. But your blindness does not negate the Scripture. Just because you don't accept His deity doesn't mean that He is not God. It just means that you have denied Jesus.

Google says...

No
No, something cannot be 100 percent of two different things. A percentage is a way of expressing a number as a fraction of 100, meaning it represents a part of a whole. Therefore, when something is 100 percent of one thing, it means it is 100% of that whole. If something is 100 percent of two different things, it would mean it is 100% of one thing and also 100% of the other, which is not possible.

 

[Peterlag]

The Word was not "A" God. The Word was GOD! And the Word did take on flesh in the form of the man we know as Jesus. You are denying Scripture again.

The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Doug Brents]

Google says...

No
No, something cannot be 100 percent of two different things. A percentage is a way of expressing a number as a fraction of 100, meaning it represents a part of a whole. Therefore, when something is 100 percent of one thing, it means it is 100% of that whole. If something is 100 percent of two different things, it would mean it is 100% of one thing and also 100% of the other, which is not possible.

Are you basing the destiny of your eternal soul on Google? Just sayin'!

The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

Again, you only read what you want to hear. The Word (Logos) was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. The Word was not just His thoughts, ideas, etc. The Word was GOD! And the Word became flesh in the man we know as Jesus.

 

[mikesw]

The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

the Logos is something that does, works, changes, and creates. Unless you follow the word of faith heresy, only the living God, known in triune sense, does that.

 

[TomL]

Morning, noon, and night you guy post the same Scripture and then question me for posting the same response.

The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

After saying that Christ was in the form of God, Philippians 2:6 goes on to say that Christ “considered being equal with God not something to be grasped at.” If Jesus were God, then it would make no sense at all to say that he did not “grasp” at equality with God because no one grasps at equality with himself. Some Trinitarians say, “Well, he was not grasping for equality with the Father.” That is not what the verse says. It says Christ did not grasp at equality with God, which makes the verse nonsense if he were God.

The Greek word morphē does not refer to the essential nature of Christ in that context. If the point of the verse is to say that Jesus is God, then why not just say that? If Jesus is God, say that, don’t say he has the “essential nature of God.” Of course God has the “essential nature” of God, so why would anyone make that point? This verse does not say “Jesus being God” but rather “being in the form of God.” Paul is reminding the Philippians that Jesus represented the Father in every possible way.

From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.

The trinitarian has only 3 to pick from...

1.) Use a verse from a bad translation.
2.) Use a verse that is taken out of context.
3.) Not understand how the words were used in the culture they were written in.

And basically that's all trinitarians have. And I mean 100 percent of what they have. They have nothing else.

Morning and night you ignore the verses posted

John 1:1–14 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

confirmed here

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Christ the word existed in the form of God

This was before he became flesh

Hello

You claimed the word was but an it.

Scripture, however, states he Christ the word existed in the form of God

Rev 19:13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

And this was before he became flesh.

 

[Peterlag]

Are you basing the destiny of your eternal soul on Google? Just sayin'!


Again, you only read what you want to hear. The Word (Logos) was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. The Word was not just His thoughts, ideas, etc. The Word was GOD! And the Word became flesh in the man we know as Jesus.

Yes... Google and I both know that God set up boundaries of math, logic, and reason that He also functions in when dealing with us. Anything else which is what you are promoting would be confession and chaos.

 

[TomL]

Yes... Google and I both know that God set up boundaries of math, logic, and reason that He also functions in when dealing with us. Anything else which is what you are promoting would be confession and chaos.

The Bible, not Google, contains the truth necessary for salvation.

As Doug stated

Again, you only read what you want to hear. The Word (Logos) was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. The Word was not just His thoughts, ideas, etc. The Word was GOD! And the Word became flesh in the man we know as Jesus.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes... Google and I both know that God set up boundaries of math, logic, and reason that He also functions in when dealing with us. Anything else which is what you are promoting would be confession and chaos.

Not at all. You are not 100% flesh. You also have a spirit. Your spirit is a human spirit, as opposed to an angelic spirit, as opposed to the spirit of deity. The spirit within Jesus was not a human spirit, but was the Spirit of the Living God. He didn't cease to be deity just because He came to live within a human body.

 

[TomL]

The Greek word morphē does not refer to the essential nature of Christ in that context. If the point of the verse is to say that Jesus is God, then why not just say that? If Jesus is God, say that, don’t say he has the “essential nature of God.” Of course God has the “essential nature” of God, so why would anyone make that point? This verse does not say “Jesus being God” but rather “being in the form of God.” Paul is reminding the Philippians that Jesus represented the Father in every possible way.

Noun Usage
1. form (essence)† — the expression of something (such as a visual, spatial, or preternatural expression) that reflects or manifests fully and truly (and permanently) the essence of what something is. Related Topics: Nature; Form.
Php 2:6 ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ
Php 2:7 ἐκένωσεν μορφὴν δούλου
2. form (manifestation)† — a particular mode in which something is existing. Related Topic: Form.
Mk 16:12 ἐν ἑτέρᾳ μορφῇ πορευομένοις
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).


FORM (Noun)
1. morphe (μορφή, 3444) denotes “the special or characteristic form or feature” of a person or thing; it is used with particular significance in the NT, only of Christ, in Phil. 2:6, 7, in the phrases “being in the form of God,” and “taking the form of a servant.” An excellent definition of the word is that of Gifford: “morphe is therefore properly the nature or essence, not in the abstract, but as actually subsisting in the individual, and retained as long as the individual itself exists.… Thus in the passage before us morphe Theou is the Divine nature actually and inseparably subsisting in the Person of Christ.… For the interpretation of ‘the form of God’ it is sufficient to say that (1) it includes the whole nature and essence of Deity, and is inseparable from them, since they could have no actual existence without it; and (2) that it does not include in itself anything ‘accidental’ or separable, such as particular modes of manifestation, or conditions of glory and majesty, which may at one time be attached to the ‘form,’ at another separated from it.…
“The true meaning of morphe in the expression ‘form of God’ is confirmed by its recurrence in the corresponding phrase, ‘form of a servant.’ It is universally admitted that the two phrases are directly antithetical, and that ‘form’ must therefore have the same sense in both.”*

W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 251.

58.2 μορφήa, ῆς f: the nature or character of something, with emphasis upon both the internal and external form—‘nature, character.’ ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ ὑπάρχων ‘he always had the very nature of God’ Php 2:6; μορφὴν δούλου λαβών ‘he took on the nature of a servant’ Php 2:7. In view of the lack of a closely corresponding lexical item such as ‘nature,’ it may be necessary to restructure the form of Php 2:7 as ‘he became truly a servant.’

Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 584.

3444. μορφή morphḗ; gen. morphḗs, fem. noun. Form, shape.
Morphḗ appears with schḗma (4976), fashion, the whole outward appearance, in Phil. 2:6–8. These two words stand for the form and fashion of a person or thing. A form would exist were it alone in the universe even if there were none to behold it. There may be a concept (tó nooúmenon, pres. act. part. of noéō [3539], to conceive, exercise the mind) without becoming apparent or externally visible. The nooúmenon, conceptual, may remain such or may become phainómenon (pres. act. part. of phaínō [5316], to appear), visible, with a shape, which can be observed. The use of morphḗ and schḗma implies that an appearance is made in a visible form and fashion.
Morphḗ in Phil. 2:6–8 presumes an obj. reality. No one could be in the form (morphḗ) of God who was not God. However, morphḗ is not the shaping of pure thought. It is the utterance of the inner life, a life that bespeaks the existence of God. He who had been in morphḗ Theoú, in the form of God, from eternity (John 17:5) took at His incarnation the morphḗn doúlou (doúlos [1401], servant), a form of a servant. The fact that Jesus continued to be God during His state of humiliation is demonstrated by the pres. part. hupárchōn, “being” in the form of God. Hupárchō (5225) involves continuing to be that which one was before. Nothing appeared that was not an obj. reality from the beginning. In His incarnation, Jesus took upon Himself the form (morphḗ) of a servant by taking upon Himself the shape (schḗma) of man. The schḗma, shape or fashion, is the outward form having to do not only with His essential being, but also with His appearance. The eternal, infinite form of God took upon Himself flesh (John 1:1a, 14a). See Sept.: Dan. 4:36; 5:6, 9, 10.


Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000).

 

[Alter2Ego]

Can you answer the question?

Do you affirm Christ's pre-incarnation existence?

Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

And his existence was in the form of God .

TomL:

You shot yourself in the foot when you quoted that verse. Look at the portion that I bolded in red. It says right there in plain English that Jesus, despite existing in the form of God they were NOT equal. Remember, according to Christendom's Trinity, the Father, Son, and God's holy spirit are three persons that are CO-EQUAL.

BTW: Jesus and God and all of the angels are spirit persons. That's what the scripture is saying when it says Jesus "existed in the form of God."

 

[Alter2Ego]

Can you answer the question?

Do you affirm Christ's pre-incarnation existence?

Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

And his existence was in the form of God .

TomL:

Jesus existed as a spirit person prior to his spirit life being transferred into the womb of the virgin named Mary, true. All of the thousands of angels exist in the form of God because just like Jehovah God, they are spirit persons.

 

[mikesw]

TomL:

Jesus existed as a spirit person prior to his spirit life being transferred into the womb of the virgin named Mary, true. All of the thousands of angels exist in the form of God because just like Jehovah God, they are spirit persons.

So the clear passages of Jesus' divinity are outdone by some theory of angels being spirit persons? I will have to see what is the source of that idea. It would further seem that if this theory of spirit persons is the doctrine of Alter2ego, then it is easy to recognize the Word who was with God now being the "spirit person" of Christ. Why have we been fighting so long on this detail only to have Alter2Ego somewhat agree with what we have been sharing?

 

[Alter2Ego]

He is also the Creator who existed before all created things as Scripture declares making Him once again equal with God since He is the Creator God.

The Son is before creation. Both Son and Father were together sharing the same Glory as God together with one another as per John 17:1-5 and John 17:24. This parallels John 1:1, Colossians 1:15-17, Hebrews 1:8-10, 1 Corinthians 8:6 and several other passages in scripture declaring His active role in Creation with the Father.

That's false, civic. Jesus didn't create anything. Jehovah God is the power behind creation and simply worked through Jesus. Scripture says the only Creator is God the Father.

"This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb: “I am Jehovah, who made everything. I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me?" (Isaiah 44:24 -- New World Translation)

https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=Isaiah+44%3A24&link=%2Fresults%2FE%2Fbible%3Fsort%3Drel%26q%3D

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone," (Isaiah 44:24 -- Legacy Standard Bible)

Isaiah 44 Legacy Standard Bible

As a matter of fact, Jesus was created by Jehovah.

Colossians 1:15​

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;"

 

[mikesw]

That's false, civic. Jesus didn't create anything. Jehovah God is the power behind creation and simply worked through Jesus. Scripture says the only Creator is God the Father.

"This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb: “I am Jehovah, who made everything. I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me?" (Isaiah 44:24 -- New World Translation)

https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=Isaiah+44%3A24&link=%2Fresults%2FE%2Fbible%3Fsort%3Drel%26q%3D

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone," (Isaiah 44:24 -- Legacy Standard Bible)

Isaiah 44 Legacy Standard Bible

As a matter of fact, Jesus was created by Jehovah.

Colossians 1:15​

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;"

Alter2Ego does not correct any views after learning that the sense in Col 1:15 is preeminence over all creation. Informed scholars note instead:
It therefore conveys the idea of priority in both time and rank, and we should not foreclose on either of these options (NIV, in its paraphrase, allows only the idea of rank): to opt for temporal priority does not imply that the pre-existent Son of God is merely the first created being. . . . ‘When all things began, the Word already was’. It is in virtue of this eternal pre-existence that the Son of God holds supreme rank.
N. T. Wright, Colossians and Philemon: An Introduction and Commentary, vol. 12, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1986), 75.