The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Peterlag]

Logos is masculine and Theos is masculine

Autos is likewise masculine

God

,

and

d

the

Word

was

God

.

2

1

He

was

in

the

τὸν11 θεόν12

καὶ13

ὁ16

λόγος17

ἦν15

θεὸς14

οὗτος1

ἦν2

ἐν3

→

ton theon

kai

ho

logos

ēn

theos

houtos

ēn

en

ὁ θεός

καί

ὁ

λόγος

εἰμί

θεός

οὗτος

εἰμί

ἐν

ho theos

kai

ho

logos

eimi

theos

houtos

eimi

en

ο θεος

και

ο

λεγω

ειμι

θεος

ουτος

ειμι

εν

o theos

kai

o

legō

eimi

theos

outos

eimi

en

DASM NASM

CLN

DNSM

NNSM

VIAI3S

NNSM

RD-NSM

VIAI3S

P

3588 2316

2532

3588

3056

2258

2316

3778

2258

1722

92.24 12.1

89.92

92.24

33.100

58.67

12.1

92.29

85.1

83.13

beginning

with

God

.

3

a

All

things

came

into

being

ἀρχῇ4

πρὸς5

τὸν6 θεόν7

πάντα1

←

ἐγένετο4

←

←

archē

pros

ton theon

panta

egeneto

ἀρχή

πρός

ὁ θεός

πᾶς

γίνομαι

archē

pros

ho theos

pas

ginomai

αρχω

προς

ο θεος

πας

γινομαι

archō

pros

o theos

pas

ginomai

NDSF

P

DASM NASM

JNPN

VAMI3S

746

4314

3588 2316

3956

1096

67.65

89.112

92.24 12.1

59.23

13.80

through

Him

,

and

apart

from

Him

nothing

came

into

being

διʼ2

αὐτοῦ3

καὶ5

χωρὶς6

←

αὐτοῦ7

οὐδὲ9 ἕν10

ἐγένετο8

←

←

diʼ

autou

kai

chōris

autou

oude hen

egeneto

διά

αὐτός

καί

χωρίς

αὐτός

οὐδέ εἷς

γίνομαι

dia

autos

kai

chōris

autos

oude heis

ginomai

δια

αυτος

και

χωρις

αυτος

δε ου εις 2

γινομαι

dia

autos

kai

chōris

autos

de ou eis 2

ginomai

P

RP3GSM

CLN

P B

RP3GSM

BN JNSN

VAMI3S

1223

846

2532

5565

846

3761 1520

1096

90.4

92.11

89.92

89.120

92.11

69.8 60.10

13.80

New American Standard Bible, 1995 Edition: Paragraph Version (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Jn 1:1–3.



DARBY All things received being through him, and without him not one thing received being which has received being.
ASV All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
AMP All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.
BBE All things came into existence through him, and without him nothing was.
CSB All things were created through him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.
CJB All things came to be through him, and without him nothing made had being.
D-R All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
EOB: NT All things came into being through him, and without him, nothing came into being that has come into being.
ESV All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
GW Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him.
GNB Through him God made all things; not one thing in all creation was made without him.
HCSB All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.
HBCONTCV All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
HB:ERV Everything was made through him, and nothing was made without him.
EHV Through him everything was made, and without him not one thing was made that has been made.
KJV All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
ISV Through him all things were made, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made.
KJV 1900All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
KJV (WS)All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
LEB All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.
MNT all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made.
MSG Everything was created through him; nothing—not one thing!— came into being without him.
MEV All things were created through Him, and without Him nothing was created that was created.
MLB:BV Through Him everything came into being and without Him nothing that exists came into being.
MNT through him all existence came into being, no existence came into being apart from him.
NET All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.
NABRE All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
NASB All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NASB95 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NCV All things were made by him, and nothing was made without him.
NEB and through him all things came to be; no single thing was created without him. All that came to be
NIrV All things were made through him. Nothing that has been made was made without him.
NIV84 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
NIV Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
NJB Through him all things came into being, not one thing came into being except through him.
NKJV All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NLT God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.
NRSV All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being
NTMS:ITEETRGT All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing that exists came into being.
NT:TOG All things were made by him, and without him not one thing was made that now exists.
TPT And through his creative inspiration this Living Expression made all things, for nothing has existence apart from him!
REB and through him all things came to be; without him no created thing came into being.
RSV all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
SCNTEAll things became through him, and without him did not anything become: that which became
SNTTEP Every thing was by his hand; and without him, was not any thing whatever that existed.
TNIV Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
YLT all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.

And God still stated

Hebrews 1:10–12 (NASB 95) — 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; 11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT, 12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”

And we see his name

Rev 19:13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word (Logos) of God.

Logos (word) is the name of the personal being

People often say I'm wrong when I post this because they say I looked it up in an Interlinear or Concordance and it shows the word is a "him" and not an "it." Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means. The pronoun is an "it" when it refers to an inanimate noun like the "Word" because Greek has grammatical gender and the "Word" in John 1 is a thing so the Greek says it's an "it."

 

[mikesw]

People often say I'm wrong when I post this because they say I looked it up in an Interlinear or Concordance and it shows the word is a "him" and not an "it." Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means. The pronoun is an "it" when it refers to an inanimate noun like the "Word" because Greek has grammatical gender and the "Word" in John 1 is a thing so the Greek says it's an "it."

so Peterlag makes the One in whom all things were created as simply an inanimate object. That is strongly against scripture.

 

[Alter2Ego]

TomL:

You need to contact your source, Luke Wayne, and explain to him that the expression God--even when capitalized--is nothing more than a title that applies to powerful beings such as angels and even humans in positions of power. Notice the words bolded in red within the quotation below from Encyclopedia Britannica.


"Elohim, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeṭim), and the Messiah—is usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and only God of Israel, whose personal name was revealed to Moses as YHWH, or Yahweh (q.v.). "

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Elohim

Um, can this be stated of them
Jesus has attributes of the True God (Yahweh). These things cannot be said of any man but only God.

Power
Jesus has power over disease- Luke 7:14,
over death—Matt. 8:26,
over nature—Matt. 8:16,
over Satan and his angels—Luke 4:35-41; Eph 1:20-23,
over all things Heb 1:3

TomL:

Scripture says Jesus died.

"Once again Jesus shouted, and then he died." (Contemporary English Version -- Matthew 27:50)

Matthew 27 CEV

Meanwhile, scripture says Jehovah God cannot die.

"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. (Psalm 90:2 -- English Standard Version)


Definition of everlasting:

1: lasting or enduring through all time : eternal

Definition of EVERLASTING

lasting or enduring through all time : eternal; continuing for a long time or indefinitely; having or being flowers or foliage that retain form or color for a long time when dried… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

So what's your point, TomL?

 

[mikesw]

TomL:

Scripture says Jesus died.

"Once again Jesus shouted, and then he died." (Contemporary English Version -- Matthew 27:50)

Matthew 27 CEV

Meanwhile, scripture says Jehovah God cannot die.

"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. (Psalm 90:2 -- English Standard Version)


Definition of everlasting:

1: lasting or enduring through all time : eternal

Definition of EVERLASTING

lasting or enduring through all time : eternal; continuing for a long time or indefinitely; having or being flowers or foliage that retain form or color for a long time when dried… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

So what's your point, TomL?

For those interested, the death of Jesus does not nullify that the One pre-existing as God is incarnate as Jesus. The metaphysical details of the death of Christ are maybe difficult to follow but cannot reasonably deny who Christ is.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Knowledge

Jesus knows all people, their thoughts, and their intentions.
The woman at the well- John 4:16.
In John 2:24, Luke 5:22 Jesus knew their thoughts.
Peter declared Jesus knew all things John 16:30

Really, TomL? The account at John 4:16, where he told the Samaritan woman that she had had five husbands before she revealed it to him is actually an example of Jehovah God giving him that particular knowledge through God's holy spirit.

The account at John 2:24 is simply telling the reader that Jesus was familiar with the behavior of people.

"But Jesus on His part did not did entrust Himself to them, because of His knowing all men," (John 2:24 -- Berean Literal Bible)

John 2 BLB

The account at and Luke 5:22 is another example of Jehovah God's spirit at work. There, it says:

"When Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answered them, “Why do you question in your hearts?" (Luke 5:22 -- English Standard Version)

Luke 5 ESV

The verse at John 16:30 confirms that Jesus was being helped to know certain things by means of Jehovah's holy spirit. That's what John was saying when he stated that Jesus came from God.

"Now we understand that you know everything, and there’s no need to question you. From this we believe that you came from God.” (John 16:30 -- New Living Translation)

John 16 NLT

 

[Alter2Ego]

Multipresence

Jesus is in multiple places at the same time.
Matt 18:20—Where 2 or 3 are gathered in My name, I will be in their midst.
Matt 28:20 And lo, I am with you always until the end of the age.

Now, that's a stretch, Tom L. You've got to be kidding. Those verses are simply stating that Jesus is supporting individuals that are gathered in his name.

I will deal with the rest of your Post 765 at another time.

T

Post in thread 'The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning'

Jan 1, 2026

TomL:

You need to contact your source, Luke Wayne, and explain to him that the expression God--even when capitalized--is nothing more than a title that applies to powerful beings such as angels and even humans in positions of power. Notice the words bolded in red within the quotation below from Encyclopedia Britannica.


"Elohim, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and...

• TomL

 

[TomL]

Now, that's a stretch, Tom L. You've got to be kidding. Those verses are simply stating that Jesus is supporting individuals that are gathered in his name.

I will deal with the rest of your Post 765 at another time.

T

Post in thread 'The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning'

Jan 1, 2026

TomL:

You need to contact your source, Luke Wayne, and explain to him that the expression God--even when capitalized--is nothing more than a title that applies to powerful beings such as angels and even humans in positions of power. Notice the words bolded in red within the quotation below from Encyclopedia Britannica.


"Elohim, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and...

• TomL

I do not think so

Where 2 or 3 are gathered, Christ states he will be in their midst

Many people gather together in honor of and in worship of Christ

Jesus is in multiple places at the same time.


Matt 18:20—Where 2 or 3 are gathered in My name, I will be in their midst.
Matt 28:20 And lo, I am with you always until the end of the age.

 

[TomL]

Really, TomL? The account at John 4:16, where he told the Samaritan woman that she had had five husbands before she revealed it to him is actually an example of Jehovah God giving him that particular knowledge through God's holy spirit.

UM that does not appear in the text

John 4:15–21 (NASB 95) — 15 The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, so I will not be thirsty nor come all the way here to draw.” 16 He said to her, “Go, call your husband and come here.” 17 The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, “You have correctly said, ‘I have no husband’; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly.” 19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.” 21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

The account at John 2:24 is simply telling the reader that Jesus was familiar with the behavior of people.

"But Jesus on His part did not did entrust Himself to them, because of His knowing all men," (John 2:24 -- Berean Literal Bible)

John 2 BLB

because of His knowing all men," (John 2:24

The account at and Luke 5:22 is another example of Jehovah God's spirit at work. There, it says:

"When Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answered them, “Why do you question in your hearts?" (Luke 5:22 -- English Standard Version)

Luke 5 ESV

No mention of the Spirit in the text

The verse at John 16:30 confirms that Jesus was being helped to know certain things by means of Jehovah's holy spirit. That's what John was saying when he stated that Jesus came from God.

"Now we understand that you know everything, and there’s no need to question you. From this we believe that you came from God.” (John 16:30 -- New Living Translation)

John 16 NLT

The text

John 16:30–33 (NASB 95) — 30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.” 31 Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe? 32 Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

 

[mikesw]

I do not think so

Where 2 or 3 are gathered, Christ states he will be in their midst

Many people gather together in honor of and in worship of Christ

Jesus is in multiple places at the same time.


Matt 18:20—Where 2 or 3 are gathered in My name, I will be in their midst.
Matt 28:20 And lo, I am with you always until the end of the age.

Matt 18:20 is sort of the unanticipated passage about Jesus being omnipresent in that scenario. He also shares that in anticipation of his resurrection. This verse is a bit like Matt 23:32
Matthew 23:37 (ESV)
37“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!

Here, Jesus speaks from his preexistence.

 

[civic]

John 1:3 “Everything came to be through it.” The logos is an “it” not a “him.”

It’s do not create , God does.

 

[TomL]

TomL:

You need to contact your source, Luke Wayne, and explain to him that the expression God--even when capitalized--is nothing more than a title that applies to powerful beings such as angels and even humans in positions of power. Notice the words bolded in red within the quotation below from Encyclopedia Britannica.


"Elohim, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeṭim), and the Messiah—is usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and only God of Israel, whose personal name was revealed to Moses as YHWH, or Yahweh (q.v.). "

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Elohim

Such hardly addresses the many verses which state otherwise

Does the Bible ever refer to Jesus as God?
by Luke Wayne
November 28, 2016

Critics of biblical Christianity often assert that the Bible never explicitly calls Jesus “God.” Even if this were true, that would not refute the deity of Christ. The Bible demonstrates in numerous ways that Jesus is God without always having to use the word “God” to do so. Still, it is worth noting that there are, indeed, several passages that do refer to Jesus as God.

Scripture

John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28–29 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 2:36–39 (NASB 95) — 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Acts 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Hebrews 1:9 (NASB 95) — 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

Hebrews 1:10 (NASB 95) — 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB 95) — 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

There is no one else in the bible of whom you will read such

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

 

[TomL]

People often say I'm wrong when I post this because they say I looked it up in an Interlinear or Concordance and it shows the word is a "him" and not an "it." Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means. The pronoun is an "it" when it refers to an inanimate noun like the "Word" because Greek has grammatical gender and the "Word" in John 1 is a thing so the Greek says it's an "it."

You are begging the question and your assumption is contrary to the text

Logos is not an inanimate noun


John 1:3–5 (NASB 95) — 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

rather

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

again the Greek text

1

a

In

the

beginning

was

b

the

Word

,

and

the

Word

was

c

with

ἐν

ἀρχή

εἰμί

ὁ

λόγος

καί

ὁ

λόγος

εἰμί

πρός

P

NDSF

VIAI3S

DNSM

NNSM

CLN

DNSM

NNSM

VIAI3S

P

God

,

and

d

the

Word

was

God

.

2

1

He

was

in

the

ὁ θεός

καί

ὁ

λόγος

εἰμί

θεός

οὗτος

εἰμί

ἐν

DASM NASM

CLN

DNSM

NNSM

VIAI3S

NNSM

RD-NSM

VIAI3S

P

beginning

with

God

.

3

a

All

things

came

into

being

ἀρχή

πρός

ὁ θεός

πᾶς

γίνομαι

NDSF

P

DASM NASM

JNPN

VAMI3S

through

Him

,

and

apart

from

Him

nothing

came

into

being

that

διά

αὐτός

καί

χωρίς

αὐτός

οὐδέ εἷς

γίνομαι

ὅς

P

RP3GSM

CLN

P B

RP3GSM

BN JNSN

VAMI3S

RR-NSN

has

come

into

being

.

4

a

In

Him

was

life

,

and

the

life

was

b

γίνομαι

ἐν

αὐτός

εἰμί

ζωή

καί

ὁ

ζωή

εἰμί

VRAI3S

P

RP3DSM

VIAI3S

NNSF

CLN

DNSF

NNSF

VIAI3S

the		Light		of		men
ὁ	φῶς		ὁ ἄνθρωπος
DNSN	NNSN		DGPM NGPM

Logos is masculine

 

[Doug Brents]

The Old Testament prophecies about the coming Messiah foretold that he would be a human being who would be the offspring of Eve (Genesis 3:15); a descendant of Abraham (Genesis 12:3; 18:18; 22:18); a descendant of Judah (Genesis 49:10; a prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15); a son of David (2 Samuel 7:12-13; Isaiah 11:1); a king ruling under Yahweh (Psalm 110:1); and a ruler from among the people of Israel (Jeremiah 30:21). That explains why the people were all expecting a human Messiah. The Old Testament refers to the Messiah as “one like a son of man” and the phrase “son of man” was a Semitic idiom for a human being and it's used that way throughout the Old Testament.

The phrase “son of man” also became a title of the Messiah when Daniel referred to him as “one like a son of man” (Daniel 7:13) and that explains why Jesus called himself “the son of man” many times. The use of the “son of man” in reference to the Messiah is one more piece of evidence that Jesus was fully human and one more reason that people were expecting the Messiah to be human. The New Testament teaches Jesus was a man and Jesus himself said he was “a man who has told you the truth” John 8:40. Jesus was not being disingenuous and hiding his “divine nature” but rather was making a factual statement that reinforced what the Jews were expecting of the Messiah—that he would be a fully human man.

Absolutely true; Jesus was indeed 100% human. He was a man who could be tempted by Satan, feel hunger, despair, anger, love, fear, loneliness, excitement, etc. He could grow in stature, knowledge, wisdom, etc. He could do nothing that a normal human could not do (all of His miracles, wonders, etc. were done through the Holy Spirit, after He was empowered by the Holy Spirit at His baptism).

But the fact that He was human does not in any way negate His deity. He is God (His spirit) in a human body (His humanity). Thus He was 100% human and 100% God at the same time. I know this is inconceivable to us as humans, but it is fully possible for God, since He can do anything.

 

[Doug Brents]

What part of John 1:3 is not clear?

Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.

Yes, the Logos (Word) of God became a human male by the name of Jesus. Thank you for finally admitting that. And what does Scripture say about the Logos? It was with God, and it WAS God. If the Logos was God, and it became a human male by the name of Jesus, then Jesus is God. Case closed!

 

[TomL]

What part of John 1:3 is not clear?

Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.

"Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you” (Proverbs 4:6).

Is the Wisdom in Proverbs 4:6 a distinct divine person?

The "Word" is not literally a person for the same reason that "Wisdom" is not literally a person. Both are to be taken metaphorically.

Jesus is the personification of the Word because He speaks the words of God. To listen to Jesus equals listening to the Word of God.

You are simply denying scripture

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

1

a

In

the

beginning

was

b

the

Word

,

and

the

Word

was

c

with

ἐν

ἀρχή

εἰμί

ὁ

λόγος

καί

ὁ

λόγος

εἰμί

πρός

P

NDSF

VIAI3S

DNSM

NNSM

CLN

DNSM

NNSM

VIAI3S

P

God

,

and

d

the

Word

was

God

.

2

1

He

was

in

the

ὁ θεός

καί

ὁ

λόγος

εἰμί

θεός

οὗτος

εἰμί

ἐν

DASM NASM

CLN

DNSM

NNSM

VIAI3S

NNSM

RD-NSM

VIAI3S

P

beginning

with

God

.

3

a

All

things

came

into

being

ἀρχή

πρός

ὁ θεός

πᾶς

γίνομαι

NDSF

P

DASM NASM

JNPN

VAMI3S

through

Him

,

and

apart

from

Him

nothing

came

into

being

that

διά

αὐτός

καί

χωρίς

αὐτός

οὐδέ εἷς

γίνομαι

ὅς

P

RP3GSM

CLN

P B

RP3GSM

BN JNSN

VAMI3S

RR-NSN

has

come

into

being

.

4

a

In

Him

was

life

,

and

the

life

was

b

γίνομαι

ἐν

αὐτός

εἰμί

ζωή

καί

ὁ

ζωή

εἰμί

VRAI3S

P

RP3DSM

VIAI3S

NNSF

CLN

DNSF

NNSF

VIAI3S

the		Light		of		men
ὁ		φῶς				ὁ ἄνθρωπος
DNSN		NNSN				DGPM NGPM

Theos - Masculine

Logos - Masculine

autos - Masculine

Regarding this masculine Logos who is with and is God

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes, the Logos (Word) of God became a human male by the name of Jesus. Thank you for finally admitting that. And what does Scripture say about the Logos? It was with God, and it WAS God. If the Logos was God, and it became a human male by the name of Jesus, then Jesus is God. Case closed!

I think a great reason why you guys believe in things that are not in the Scripture is because you can't read. Here again for the fifth time is another example. I wrote Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. And you spinning and twisting try to make it out that I was saying the Word was a male person.

Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.

 

[Peterlag]

You are simply denying scripture

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

1

a

In

the

beginning

was

b

the

Word

,

and

the

Word

was

c

with

ἐν

ἀρχή

εἰμί

ὁ

λόγος

καί

ὁ

λόγος

εἰμί

πρός

P

NDSF

VIAI3S

DNSM

NNSM

CLN

DNSM

NNSM

VIAI3S

P

God

,

and

d

the

Word

was

God

.

2

1

He

was

in

the

ὁ θεός

καί

ὁ

λόγος

εἰμί

θεός

οὗτος

εἰμί

ἐν

DASM NASM

CLN

DNSM

NNSM

VIAI3S

NNSM

RD-NSM

VIAI3S

P

beginning

with

God

.

3

a

All

things

came

into

being

ἀρχή

πρός

ὁ θεός

πᾶς

γίνομαι

NDSF

P

DASM NASM

JNPN

VAMI3S

through

Him

,

and

apart

from

Him

nothing

came

into

being

that

διά

αὐτός

καί

χωρίς

αὐτός

οὐδέ εἷς

γίνομαι

ὅς

P

RP3GSM

CLN

P B

RP3GSM

BN JNSN

VAMI3S

RR-NSN

has

come

into

being

.

4

a

In

Him

was

life

,

and

the

life

was

b

γίνομαι

ἐν

αὐτός

εἰμί

ζωή

καί

ὁ

ζωή

εἰμί

VRAI3S

P

RP3DSM

VIAI3S

NNSF

CLN

DNSF

NNSF

VIAI3S

the		Light		of		men
ὁ		φῶς				ὁ ἄνθρωπος
DNSN		NNSN				DGPM NGPM

Theos - Masculine

Logos - Masculine

autos - Masculine

Regarding this masculine Logos who is with and is God

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

People often say I'm wrong when I post this because they say I looked it up in an Interlinear or Concordance and it shows the word is a "him" and not an "it." Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means. The pronoun is an "it" when it refers to an inanimate noun like the "Word" because Greek has grammatical gender and the "Word" in John 1 is a thing so the Greek says it's an "it."

 

[TomL]

The Old Testament prophecies about the coming Messiah foretold that he would be a human being who would be the offspring of Eve (Genesis 3:15); a descendant of Abraham (Genesis 12:3; 18:18; 22:18); a descendant of Judah (Genesis 49:10; a prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15); a son of David (2 Samuel 7:12-13; Isaiah 11:1); a king ruling under Yahweh (Psalm 110:1); and a ruler from among the people of Israel (Jeremiah 30:21). That explains why the people were all expecting a human Messiah. The Old Testament refers to the Messiah as “one like a son of man” and the phrase “son of man” was a Semitic idiom for a human being and it's used that way throughout the Old Testament.

The phrase “son of man” also became a title of the Messiah when Daniel referred to him as “one like a son of man” (Daniel 7:13) and that explains why Jesus called himself “the son of man” many times. The use of the “son of man” in reference to the Messiah is one more piece of evidence that Jesus was fully human and one more reason that people were expecting the Messiah to be human. The New Testament teaches Jesus was a man and Jesus himself said he was “a man who has told you the truth” John 8:40. Jesus was not being disingenuous and hiding his “divine nature” but rather was making a factual statement that reinforced what the Jews were expecting of the Messiah—that he would be a fully human man.

You ignore his existence previous to manhood

Philippians 2:5–7 (NASB 95) — 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

He existed in the form of God,

 

[Doug Brents]

I think a great reason why you guys believe in things that are not in the Scripture is because you can't read. Here again for the fifth time is another example. I wrote Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. And you spinning and twisting try to make it out that I was saying the Word was a male person.

The Word did become the male person Jesus. Whether you like it or not, that is a fact. While it may be true that the word for "Word" (Logos) is an it, the "Word" then took on flesh in the form of a man known as Jesus, and so it is completely proper to call it a "Him".

 

[Peterlag]

Absolutely true; Jesus was indeed 100% human. He was a man who could be tempted by Satan, feel hunger, despair, anger, love, fear, loneliness, excitement, etc. He could grow in stature, knowledge, wisdom, etc. He could do nothing that a normal human could not do (all of His miracles, wonders, etc. were done through the Holy Spirit, after He was empowered by the Holy Spirit at His baptism).

But the fact that He was human does not in any way negate His deity. He is God (His spirit) in a human body (His humanity). Thus He was 100% human and 100% God at the same time. I know this is inconceivable to us as humans, but it is fully possible for God, since He can do anything.

God cannot do anything. If He could He would not have waited 4 thousand years to come up with Mary. He also cannot lie and He cannot die and He probably cannot make a square circle. And there's no teaching in the Bible that mentions or explains a 100 percent man and a 100 percent God at the same time.