The Issue of Limited Atonement

Its all of the elect.
It's still your fantasy.

Um you are living in a world of fantasy.

The term world is shown to reference all people, all who do not believe, as well as a combination of believers and unbelievers

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Lexicons simply do not support your fantasy claim.
which, BTW, stops you from addressing scripture.
 
No mention of elect here.

Stop ignoring scripture

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people, the world consists of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

The whole world

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
All about the elect
 
Yeah all about the elect
 
The elect, that addresses it
Only in your fantasies

 
I'm not going to take a stand on whether or not atonement is limited or sufficient for all because I honestly don't know.

I'd just like to hear from non-Calvinists as to how they reconcile their view of atonement with the fact that not all people will be saved. Isn't that, by definition, limited atonement? Or is there another explanation?
"Atonement" SUFFICIENT for EVERY HUMAN - potentially, was established at Calvary which was a SIN OFFERING - not of livestock,, or produce, but of a PERFECT HUMAN SACRIFICE, faith in which has the power to CLEANSE FROM SIN, and give one the power to become a child of God, (Isa 53:10)

FAITH, however, is not something that a human can produce in himself. The best we can do is "Belief" (mental assent) which doesn't get the job done. SAVING FAITH is enabled by HEARING GOD'S WORD (Rom 10:17)(Eph 2:8,9).

Consequently, when a person is CONVICTED OF THEIR SIN by the HOLY SPIRIT (God's word) and surrenders / repents of their SIN, calling on God IN FAITH for the "Sin offering" to be theirs, they are Born Again, and indwelled by the Holy SPirit, and cleansed of ALL SIN instantly.

SO - the final key to salvation is "Conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit". WITHOUT that, salvation is impossible. and the question becomes: WHO DOES GOD CONVICT? Their response to that conviction is everything, as they stand in the FULL KNOWLEDGE of God's presence and their true standing before him as CONVICTED sinners BOUND FOR hell.

That's where "FREE WILL" comes into play. A person doesn't HAVE TO SURRENDER, and repent. The Conviction will fade in a short time, and the person CAN remain in death, AND CONDEMNED BECAUSE THEY DECIDE TO.

So the only real question is: Does God convict EVERYBODY of their SIN, since without that salvation can't happen??? Romans 9:18 raises that question, and personally I don't have the answer. He convicted me several times before the last time in '63 when I surrendered to Him finally.

Paul, in becoming "All things to ALL people" (1 cor 9:22) didn't worry too much about whether they were "Elect" or not, and considered everybody to be "fertile ground".

I didn't HAVE TO REPENT, and for years I didn't - but AT THE AGE OF 20, totally without hope, and at the end of my rope, I finally surrendered. Since GOD states that HIS Spirit WILL not always STRIVE WITH MAN (Gen 6:3), and it had been a long time since the last time I'd felt Him I felt that it might be my LAST CHANCE.

If I'd been confident of another chance, I might have put it off again!!!!
 
Salvation in Christ Jesus is only for the elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

There is no other Salvation for any other people.
 
Only in your fantasies

See post 1710
 
Salvation in Christ Jesus is only for the elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

There is no other Salvation for any other people.
Nothing here about unconditional election

2 Timothy 2 (KJV 1900) — 1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
 
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See post 1710
No reason to, as you never address the verses

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
 
Salvation in Christ Jesus is only for the elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

There is no other Salvation for any other people.
Sorry there is still nothing there about unconditional election.

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

John 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.

All who believe obtain salvation.
 
Salvation in Christ Jesus is only for the elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

There is no other Salvation for any other people.
See the words may also

That adds to the elect here.
 
The term World is further described here

Sorry you have simply misinterpreted scripture

You have shown nothing in contradiction to

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

and assume God cannot bring any he wants into the covenant


You have argued world refers to the world of the Jews.

But you clearly are in error

John 17:6–9 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they understand that all the things that you have given me are from you, 8 because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me. 9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,

World here is simply those who are not Gods

And

John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you.
John 17:6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.

Christ here prays for the disciples he had been given

They are not a part of the world.

Later he prays for those who believe in God through the ministry of those given

John 17:20 (LEB) — 20 “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word,

Here the prayer is for all who believe.

world here remain those who do not know God

John 17:25 (LEB) — 25 Righteous Father, although the world does not know you, yet I have known you, and these men have come to know that you sent me.

Nowhere is the word world a reference to Jews alone.

Through Christ is salvation for the world

John 3:17For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

world defined as all people

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people includes more than just believers, and never is it a reference for Jews alone.

God is their savior based on his love for all people, that is the world.

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Your position is clearly refuted.
Jews writing about acts of the Holy Spirit occurring to Jews. You forget God's covenant with the Hebrew people through which these things written by Jewish Christians were occurring to Jews.

You must read and understand the New Covenant era - according to Jeremiah - was happening to Jews, NOT Gentiles.

Pentecost was an act of God upon Jews. When you go away from the context of these things taking place among Jews and interpret "world" and "all people" to mean EVERYBODY WHO IS GENTILE, then you have misinterpreted the events of the New Covenant era for the prophecy by Jeremiah is a New Covenant between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah - NOT GENTILES.

Three thousand Jews were born again on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Acts 2:4–5.

The Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel was being realized among JEWS.

Peter stands out and addresses JEWS at this Feast who have undergone a filling of the Holy Spirit. Peter is speaking to JEWS who attended this Feast from all over the Roman Empire (Gentile lands and Provinces) who have been touched by God's Holy Spirit that was promised TO ISRAEL.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Acts 2:14–22.

Members of the twelve tribes/sons of Jacob/Israel are present at a JEWISH FEAST. There are NO GENTILES HERE.

Peter addresses the two tribes of the southern kingdom of Judah and the ten tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel.
Peter is speaking TO JEWS. These things are happening TO JEWS.
 
Scripture

Acts 13:46–47 (KJV 1900) — 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

You have ignored it once again.
Why would God care about non-Hebrew Gentiles? To Israel God is enemy of Gentiles. The Jewish people are presently underfoot of Gentiles called the Roman Caesars and Governors. The mode of condemnation Romans placed upon a Jewish rabbi was crucifixion. THAT is a Gentile instrument of death.

Israel is become a light to non-Hebrew Gentiles also known as the nations of the world. Everything that occurred to Abraham and to his seed through Jacob and their descendants was recorded by their prophets, priests, and kings. Genesis to Malachi records the acts of Gentiles upon Israel and God's deliverance FROM Gentiles is clearly written in their Scripture, INCLUDING God delivering Israel from all her enemies and those enemies are the non-Hebrew nations of the world.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and ethe women ravished;
And half of the city shall go forth into captivity,
And the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
As when he fought in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:2–3.

The non-Hebrew nations that war against Israel are judged by God and it does not turn out well with them.

Israel's own prophet Isaiah prophesy AGAINST the nations of the non-Hebrew world:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

It is God's providential acts taking place among Israel NOT GENTILES.
The Holy Spirit is converting JEWS NOT GENTILES at Pentecost. And every day after Pentecost Jesus Christ is converting Jews into His Church, His Body, and they are become a light AGAINST Gentiles. There are NO GENTILES in the Abrahamic Covenant. There are NO GENTILES in the Mosaic Covenant. And Jeremaih says there are NO GENTILES in the New Covenant:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:31–33.

What part don't you understand? The things taking place beginning on the Jewish Feast of Harvest are taking place among JEWS. Thousands and thousands of Jews are being baptized in God's own Spirit, and every day thereafter. God's Spirit is 'falling' upon JEWS!
And Luke records in Acts 2:47 that Christ is saving JEWS.

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the [JEWISH] people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47.

Christ's CHURCH is only an extension of Israel's "GREAT CONGREGATION" in the Old Testament.

JEWS are the "great congregation" identified in the Hebrew Scripture beginning in the desert after Moses delivered JEWS from Egyptian bondage. Gentiles had the children of Israel and of God IN BONDAGE. Those living in Canaan whom Joshua eradicated with extreme prejudice WERE GENTILES.

Even today non-Hebrew nations in the United Nations Assembly are AGAINST ISRAEL, and they vote down every piece of legislation that will benefit Israel. Do you even know these things?
The non-Hebrew nations of the world are prophesied as the ocean, the sea, and the final non-Hebrew nation that will conquer the world in the future will not love Israel. This man of sin prophesied to lead non-Hebrew nations of the world will lull Israel to sleep with a covenant Daniel prophesies ISRAEL will make with non-Hebrew nations granting security to them for three-and-one-half years and then the Gentiles will BREAK treaty and attack Israel. Armageddon is a war between God and Gentiles with Israel being His instrument He uses to bring awful judgment to the Gentile nations of the world. So HOW can you say ":God loves ALL people (Gentiles) when the final war is non-Hebrew nations against Israel????

Man, get a clue.
 
You simply ignored this

Christ's blood was a necessary element to effect the New covenant.

Matt 26:28for this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Mark 14:24And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many.
Luke 22:20And in the same way the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you.
1 Cor 11:25Likewise also the cup, after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

And his blood was poured out in his death for all

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All which extol what is spoken of here

Ephesians 2:12–22 (LEB) — 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

You need to stop rejecting the word of God.

Clearly the gentiles who once were far away were brought into the household of God.

Were they brought into the household, made fellow citizens apart from the covenant?

BTW

Rom 4:13For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants, that he would be heir of the world, was not through the law, but through the righteousness by faith.

Gen 18:18Abraham will surely become a great and strong nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed on account of him.
I see nothing but Jewish statements that you quote. These come from the Gentile "Bible" Gentiles compiled and gathered together but these are all STILL Jewish men who are also Christ-ian and they write about the New Covenant era Israel found itself in beginning of Pentecost in AD 34.

I see you don't quote the original Old Testament. The Jews that wrote these letters to the Jewish Christians who lived in Corinth, Ephesus, and Philippi, etc., are written TO JEWS.

Why don't you quote the Old Testament prophecies and promises God makes towards Israel? Possibly because like every so-called "Christian" you spend too much time reading and misinterpreting the epistles. Those that wrote what became the New Testament correctly write and interpret the Old Testament in their letters where they discuss the "Acts of the Holy Spirit" taking place among Jewry. The Holy Spirit of Promise

WAS PROMISED TO ISRAEL

by Joel. The Spirit wasn't promised to Gentiles. So, every interpretation of yours that inserts Gentiles into the Hebrew prophecies are all wrong.

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:27–28.

This is a prophecy that is promised to Israel.
 
The bottom line is you ignore scripture

Rom 4:13For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants, that he would be heir of the world, was not through the law, but through the righteousness by faith.

Gen 18:18Abraham will surely become a great and strong nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed on account of him.

Fulfilled

Ephesians 2:12–22 (LEB) — 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Tell me, where in the Old Testament does God make covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles?

Tell me, what is this Gentile's name?
 
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