The Issue of Limited Atonement

[brightfame52]

Yes, we will. Some of us are going to receive stripes.
The Word of God Himself will teach DOCTRINE, REPROOF, CORRECTION, AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS and some will have to be spanked (and I hope very HARD!)

Yeah we will see.

 

[brightfame52]

Saul enumerates the totality of salvation:

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever.
Amen.
Romans 9:1–5.

These things are given to the Jews through covenant and promises as found in the OT.
None of these things were ever given to Gentiles.

This is why SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS.

Hebrews was written for any believer regardless of ethnicity. As long as a person is a partaker of the heavenly calling Heb 3:1

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
All races of people were given Grace in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9-11

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles

And Paul was to let chose Gentiles in on it by being sent to them specifically to preach and teach them of 2 Tim 1:9

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

"All men" meaning all Hebrews/Jews.

False teaching, see ya at the Judgment about that

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

The term World is further described here

World in Salvation matters merely means all ethnicities, just not jews.

 

[TomL]

NO MAN in the Old Testament ever had the Holy Spirit dwelling IN them. They all had the Spirit "overshadow" them, just like Mary whom the Spirit "overshadowed" her and she was "found with child."
Although a lamb was slain BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man, no one, as Jesus says, had the Holy Spirit dwelling within them.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16–17.

The Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, for conversion. Jesus says "Even the Spirit of Truth whom THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE" makes an astounding statement that the world cannot be saved because they cannot receive Him (the Spirit.)

Here the world is that part of humanity Hostile toward God

7. the world, and everything that belongs to it, appears as that which is hostile to God, i.e. lost in sin, wholly at odds w. anything divine, ruined and depraved

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Gentiles had received the Spirit here.

Acts 10:34–48 (KJV 1900) — 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Your poor interpretation is contradicted by scripture

 

[TomL]

@TomL



World in Salvation matters merely means all ethnicities, just not jews.

It means all people

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[TomL]

Man had a solidarity, union in Adam when he sinned, so much so all men in him sinned, that's how God reckons it.

As far as Titus 2:11 goes, its all the elect universally, not just jews. Paul wrote Titus and stated the letter was in accordance to the Faith of Gods Elect, not all mankind Titus 1:1-3

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Pauls preaching and writing was to bring to Faith Gods elect, so they will acknowledge the Truth. Eternal life was never promised to all mankind, but to only those the Father gave to Christ Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
All the Sheep Jn 10:27-28,29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

So Titus 2:11 could never, ever be talking about all mankind individually, but all Gods elect, or sheep from all people ethnicities.

Eternal life is only for an Elect People, their Inheritance !

You appear confused in your argument.

Eternal life is for all believers.

Unbelievers do not receive eternal life.

That is our position

Faith is an available option to all.

And

Titus 2:11 (KJV 1900) — 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Men with faith receive that available grace.

 

[TomL]

Please, let us not make points to each other that are intended to influence someone else on the forum. If you desire to make a point to someone, direct your comment to him, not toward me.

I was just agreeing with your position, but as you prefer.

I agree with the point you are making. This passage mirrors and strengthens the statements Paul made in Rom 9. The Gentiles are 100% equal with the Jews within the Church. There is no division. The Gentiles are part of the New Covenant in Jesus' blood.

Amen

 

[brightfame52]

It means all people

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Its just emphasizing Gentiles

 

[brightfame52]

You appear confused in your argument.

Eternal life is for all believers.

Unbelievers do not receive eternal life.

That is our position

Faith is an available option to all.

And

Titus 2:11 (KJV 1900) — 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Men with faith receive that available grace.

Its only for the elect Titus 1:1-2 Its unfortunate you ve been deceived all this time with the words world, all and etc, how many times over the many years have you've been shown the biblical meaning of world as it pertains all ethnicities ? Couple of hundred ?

 

[TomL]

Its just emphasizing Gentiles

Um it mentions all people

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You ignored scripture again

 

[brightfame52]

Um it mentions all people





You ignored scripture again

All people, Gentiles comprised of all people, jews, africans, germans , indians

 

[TomL]

Its only for the elect Titus 1:1-2 Its unfortunate you ve been deceived all this time with the words world, all and etc, how many times over the many years have you've been shown the biblical meaning of world as it pertains all ethnicities ? Couple of hundred ?

Um you are living in a world of fantasy.

The term world is shown to reference all people, all who do not believe, as well as a combination of believers and unbelievers

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Lexicons simply do not support your fantasy claim.

 

[TomL]

All people, Gentiles comprised of all people, jews, africans, germans , indians

Stop ignoring scripture

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people, the world consists of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

The whole world

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[TomL]

Its just emphasizing Gentiles

You ignored scripture again

It means all people

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


The whole world

 

[brightfame52]

Um you are living in a world of fantasy.

The term world is shown to reference all people, all who do not believe, as well as a combination of believers and unbelievers

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Lexicons simply do not support your fantasy claim.

Its all of the elect.

 

[brightfame52]

Stop ignoring scripture

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people, the world consists of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

The whole world

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Its all the elect

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored scripture again

It means all people

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


The whole world

All the elect

 

[TomL]

All the elect

Nothing has changed

You ignored scripture again

It means all people

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people consist of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


The whole world

 

[TomL]

Its all the elect

No mention of elect here.

Stop ignoring scripture

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people, the world consists of believers and unbelievers.

Together they are the world.

The whole world

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.