The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah all about the elect
brightfame52
Active Member
All about the elect
brightfame52
Active Member
The elect, that addresses it
The word does not appear in the verses quoted.
So you are adding to scripture and ignoring scripture.
civic
Active Member
Yep
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
"Atonement" SUFFICIENT for EVERY HUMAN - potentially, was established at Calvary which was a SIN OFFERING - not of livestock,, or produce, but of a PERFECT HUMAN SACRIFICE, faith in which has the power to CLEANSE FROM SIN, and give one the power to become a child of God, (Isa 53:10)
FAITH, however, is not something that a human can produce in himself. The best we can do is "Belief" (mental assent) which doesn't get the job done. SAVING FAITH is enabled by HEARING GOD'S WORD (Rom 10:17)(Eph 2:8,9).
Consequently, when a person is CONVICTED OF THEIR SIN by the HOLY SPIRIT (God's word) and surrenders / repents of their SIN, calling on God IN FAITH for the "Sin offering" to be theirs, they are Born Again, and indwelled by the Holy SPirit, and cleansed of ALL SIN instantly.
SO - the final key to salvation is "Conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit". WITHOUT that, salvation is impossible. and the question becomes: WHO DOES GOD CONVICT? Their response to that conviction is everything, as they stand in the FULL KNOWLEDGE of God's presence and their true standing before him as CONVICTED sinners BOUND FOR hell.
That's where "FREE WILL" comes into play. A person doesn't HAVE TO SURRENDER, and repent. The Conviction will fade in a short time, and the person CAN remain in death, AND CONDEMNED BECAUSE THEY DECIDE TO.
So the only real question is: Does God convict EVERYBODY of their SIN, since without that salvation can't happen??? Romans 9:18 raises that question, and personally I don't have the answer. He convicted me several times before the last time in '63 when I surrendered to Him finally.
Paul, in becoming "All things to ALL people" (1 cor 9:22) didn't worry too much about whether they were "Elect" or not, and considered everybody to be "fertile ground".
I didn't HAVE TO REPENT, and for years I didn't - but AT THE AGE OF 20, totally without hope, and at the end of my rope, I finally surrendered. Since GOD states that HIS Spirit WILL not always STRIVE WITH MAN (Gen 6:3), and it had been a long time since the last time I'd felt Him I felt that it might be my LAST CHANCE.
If I'd been confident of another chance, I might have put it off again!!!!
brightfame52
Active Member
Salvation in Christ Jesus is only for the elect 2 Tim 2:10
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
There is no other Salvation for any other people.
brightfame52
Active Member
See post 1710
brightfame52
Active Member
See post 1710
Nothing here about unconditional election
2 Timothy 2 (KJV 1900) — 1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
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No reason to, as you never address the verses
1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
Sorry there is still nothing there about unconditional election.
1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
John 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
All who believe obtain salvation.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Jews writing about acts of the Holy Spirit occurring to Jews. You forget God's covenant with the Hebrew people through which these things written by Jewish Christians were occurring to Jews.
You must read and understand the New Covenant era - according to Jeremiah - was happening to Jews, NOT Gentiles.
Pentecost was an act of God upon Jews. When you go away from the context of these things taking place among Jews and interpret "world" and "all people" to mean EVERYBODY WHO IS GENTILE, then you have misinterpreted the events of the New Covenant era for the prophecy by Jeremiah is a New Covenant between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah - NOT GENTILES.
Three thousand Jews were born again on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Acts 2:4–5.
The Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel was being realized among JEWS.
Peter stands out and addresses JEWS at this Feast who have undergone a filling of the Holy Spirit. Peter is speaking to JEWS who attended this Feast from all over the Roman Empire (Gentile lands and Provinces) who have been touched by God's Holy Spirit that was promised TO ISRAEL.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Acts 2:14–22.
Members of the twelve tribes/sons of Jacob/Israel are present at a JEWISH FEAST. There are NO GENTILES HERE.
Peter addresses the two tribes of the southern kingdom of Judah and the ten tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel.
Peter is speaking TO JEWS. These things are happening TO JEWS.
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