The Issue of Limited Atonement

[brightfame52]

Wrong on both accounts.

Lesson 64: How to be Saved (Romans 10:5-10) | Bible.org

Expository study of Romans: To be saved, you must recognize that you cannot save yourself and you must truly believe in Jesus as the risen Savior and Lord.

bible.org

Lol, well Rom10 is about the elect remnant in Israel and Paul desired to be used of God to give them assurance of their salvation by the Gospel

 

[Fool4Christ]

Lol, well Rom10 is about the elect remnant in Israel and Paul desired to be used of God to give them assurance of their salvation by the Gospel

In Romans 10:5-10 Paul is explaining the contrast between righteousness through faith and righteousness through the law. Righteousness through the law is impossible to attain because no one can perfectly keep the law. The law only brings knowledge of sin.

Also we must be careful not to deny this message by implying salvation is only for a certain number of people. It is a gift received through faith. But we must choose to except it or not.

Salvation is a choice that every person in the world must make. You cannot be neutral about Jesus. You must decide for yourself what you will do with him.

Freewill choice:

Then he said to all, “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.” –Luke 9:23

 

[brightfame52]

In Romans 10:5-10 Paul is explaining the contrast between righteousness through faith and righteousness through the law. Righteousness through the law is impossible to attain because no one can perfectly keep the law. The law only brings knowledge of sin.

Also we must be careful not to deny this message by implying salvation is only for a certain number of people. It is a gift received through faith. But we must choose to except it or not.

Salvation is a choice that every person in the world must make. You cannot be neutral about Jesus. You must decide for yourself what you will do with him.

Freewill choice:

Then he said to all, “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.” –Luke 9:23

Rom10 is about the elect remnant in Israel and Paul desired to be used of God to give them assurance of their salvation by the Gospel

Rom 10:1-3
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them[Israel] record that they[Israel have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they[Israel] being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[Fool4Christ]

The gospel is universal in its application and demands a universal proclamation.

Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.

11 The Scripture says, No man who believes in Him [who adheres to, relies on, and trusts in Him] will [ever] be put to shame or be disappointed. [Ps. 34:22; Isa. 28:16; 49:23; Jer. 17:7.]

12 [No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith].

13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved. [Joel 2:32.
Romans 10:9–13.

 

[brightfame52]

[Joel 2:32.

Again this is regards to a remnant, limited atonement, Lets read the context joel 2:27-32

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

The Gospel Call for salvation is to a called remnant

 

[Fool4Christ]

[Joel 2:32.

Again this is regards to a remnant, limited atonement, Lets read the context joel 2:27-32

The Gospel Call for salvation is to a called remnant

It's a call to the whole world, all the whosoever's are the ones who choose to accept it.

16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
John 3:16.

The gospel is the saving work of God in His Son Jesus Christ and a call to faith in Him.

16 For I am not ashamed of the Gospel (good news) of Christ, for it is God’s power working unto salvation [for deliverance from eternal death] to everyone who believes with a personal trust and a confident surrender and firm reliance, to the Jew first and also to the Greek, Romans 1:16.

 

[brightfame52]

@Fool4Christ

It's a call to the whole world, all the whosoever's are the ones who choose to accept it.

Yep it is to be preached in the whole world yet its only for a called remnant

Its limited atonement, the Prophet said a called remnant Joel 2 32

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

Peter preached a limited atonement on the day of pentecost, he was preaching to the house of Israel only Acts 2:29-36

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Then he talks about the called as the Prophet did Vs 39

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

So you been deceived friend

 

[Fool4Christ]

@Fool4Christ
Yep it is to be preached in the whole world yet its only for a called remnant
So you been deceived friend

Wrong on both accounts again.

16 For I am not ashamed of the Gospel (good news) of Christ, for it is God’s power working unto salvation [for deliverance from eternal death] to everyone who believes with a personal trust and a confident surrender and firm reliance, to the Jew first and also to the Greek, Romans 1:16.

So, do not be fooled, I do not affirm meticulous divine determinism. The inconsistency of the theist determinist is evident of Calvinists being deceived.

 

[brightfame52]

@Fool4Christ

Wrong on both accounts again.

A deceived person would say that

 

[Fool4Christ]

@Fool4Christ


A deceived person would say that

Clearly scripture calls us to humility and there is nothing which suggests we cannot respond in humility when confronted by the powerful clear revelation of God’s word found in John 3:16 "For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life."

The only way Calvinists can support their theory from the Bible is to alter the meaning of Bible words or take them out of context. That's the humility found in Calvinism.

1 Peter 5:5-6: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.” Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.

Isaiah 66:2: “These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word.

James 4:10: “Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.”

2 Kings 22:19: “Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before the Lord when you heard what I have spoken against this place and its people—that they would become a curse and be laid waste—and because you tore your robes and wept in my presence, I also have heard you, declares the Lord.”

2 Chronicles 12:7: When the Lord saw that they humbled themselves, this word of the Lord came to Shemaiah: “Since they have humbled themselves, I will not destroy them but will soon give them deliverance. My wrath will not be poured out on Jerusalem through Shishak.

2 Chronicles 12:12: Because Rehoboam humbled himself, the Lord’s anger turned from him, and he was not totally destroyed.

Psalm 18:27: You save the humble but bring low those whose eyes are haughty.

Psalm 25:9: He guides the humble in what is right and teaches them his way.

Psalm 147:6: The Lord sustains the humble but casts the wicked to the ground.

Proverbs 3:34: He mocks proud mockers but shows favor to the humble and oppressed.

Zephaniah 2:3: Seek the Lord, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the Lord’s anger.

Matthew 18:4: Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:3: Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23:12: For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

Luke 1:52: He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble.

Luke 14:11: For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Luke 18:14: “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

James 4:6: But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

 

[Richard]

Clearly scripture calls us to humility and there is nothing which suggests we cannot respond in humility when confronted by the powerful clear revelation of God’s word found in John 3:16 "For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life."

The only way Calvinists can support their theory from the Bible is to alter the meaning of Bible words or take them out of context. That's the humility found in Calvinism.

Using the Calvinist “solution” of changing the word “world” as they did in John 3:16 so that it means elect, John 15:18-19 now must read:

If the elect hate you, who are the elect, ye know that the elect hated me before the elect hated you who are elect. If ye elect were of the elect, the elect would love his own elect: but because ye elect are not of the elect, but I have chosen you elect out of the elect, therefore the elect hateth you elect who are elect.

No doubt, this is a foolish translation of the verse; however, it is no more foolish than the Calvinistic interpretation of John 3:16.

When a Calvinist talks about the “sovereignty” of God, he has his own definition of the word sovereignty (as he does with the word depravity). Easton’s Illustrated Bible Dictionary says that the sovereignty of God is “His absolute right to do all things according to his own good pleasure.”

Considering that the word “sovereignty” is not in the Bible and considering the actual meaning of the word, rather than Calvin’s distorted meaning (which he needed to support his theory), we see God is no less sovereign because He, according to His own good pleasure, gives man a free will making him capable of repenting of his sin and receiving Christ as his Savior.

 

[brightfame52]

@Richard

Using the Calvinist “solution” of changing the word “world” as they did in John 3:16 so that it means elect,

World in Jn 3:16 does mean the elect, the elect of all ethnicities, Abrahams spiritual seed