DavidTree
Well-known member
No such thing as 'limited atonement'.
John 3:16 IS FULL Atonement for EVERY sin man can commit EXCEPT, blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is the coming M.o.B.
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
John 3:16 IS FULL Atonement for EVERY sin man can commit EXCEPT, blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is the coming M.o.B.
civic
Well-known member
What is M.o.B. ?
When a limited Atonement verses an unlimited atonement is spoken of, the issue is the extent of the atonement. That is who did Christ die for.
All are not saved because the atonement must be applied through faith in Christ and all men do not have faith
That is the application of the atonement and is not being addressed in a limited vs an unlimited discussion
DavidTree
Well-known member
Mark of the Beast
Selah
Member
I agree! Jesus came to save the lost. What GRACE! Thank You, Jesus.
And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."
- Luke 19:9-10
For God so loved the world…
Selah
DavidTree
Well-known member
Australia moves forward with Orwellian ‘misinformation’ bill
Oct 02, 2024 - Yudi Sherman - Violating free speech is 'justifiable' to protect citizens against misinformation, bill says
www.thegoldreport.com
Relevancy?Australia moves forward with Orwellian ‘misinformation’ bill
Oct 02, 2024 - Yudi Sherman - Violating free speech is 'justifiable' to protect citizens against misinformation, bill says
Intent, Extent, and Application of the Atonement In addition to its nature, it is vital to recognize and distinguish between three major areas comprising the subject of the atonement: (1) intent, (2) extent, and (3) application. One cannot consider the extent question apart from the question of intent and application. The intent of the atonement, since it relates to the differing perspectives on election, answers the questions, What was Christ’s saving purpose in providing an atonement? Did he equally or unequally desire the salvation of every man? And then, consequently, does his intent necessarily have a bearing upon the extent of his satisfaction? The classic Arminian and non-Calvinist22 view of the intent of the atonement is that Christ died for all people equally to make salvation possible for all people, as he equally desires all to be saved, as well as secure the salvation of those who do believe (the elect).23 Moderate Calvinists24—that is, those who reject a strictly limited atonement—believe God’s saving design or intent in the atonement was dualistic: (1) he sent Christ for the salvation of all humanity so that his death paid the penalty for their sins, thus rendering all saveable; and (2) Christ died with the special purpose of ultimately securing the salvation of the elect. High Calvinists25 believe in a strictly limited intent that they argue necessarily requires that Christ provided a satisfaction only for the elect, and thus he secures salvation only for the elect.26 The extent of the atonement answers the question, For whose sins was Christ punished? There are only two possible answers: (1) He died for the sins of all humanity (a) with equal intent (he died for the sins of all as he equally intends their salvation) or (b) with unequal intent (he died for the sins of all but especially intends to save the elect). (2) He died for the sins of the elect only (limited atonement), as he only intends their salvation.27 All Arminians, non-Calvinists, and moderate Calvinists believe that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity, regardless of the latter’s view of a special intent. All high Calvinists and hyper-Calvinists assert Christ died only for the sins of the elect and that it was God’s intent that Christ should so die only for their sins.
Allen, David L.. The Extent of the Atonement: A Historical and Critical Review (pp. 14-16). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
DavidTree
Well-known member
BLAH BLAH BLAH for the 'intellect' of man
Whereas, for God's Children we read simple grade school level grammar that says:
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
SIMPLE - only two categories = Unleavened Bread or burnt toast
brightfame52
Well-known member
So whenever Christs Death is in view, its limited to the Sheep
Not if you read the verses honestly
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
The only mention of sheep and it's all men
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
You must be reading your theology into scripture again
DavidTree
Well-known member
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
This passage disagrees with your statement = "who will have all men to be saved"
Selah
Member
…but why would the Savior of the world die only for His sheep who have already obtained salvation from before the foundation of the world?
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.- 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
See, the Elect will always run into the arms of Jesus upon hearing the gospel. The way I understand it, not everyone is Elect, but God loves all His children.
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.- 2 Peter 3:9
Selah
Selah
Member
civic
Well-known member
except God doesn't predestine before creation those who He ordains to salvation and those He ordains to condemnation. Salvation is provided for all mankind and it's up to them to accept or reject the gospel.
Do you agree or disagree ?
DavidTree
Well-known member
ABSOLUTELY TRUE
Well, i do not know calvinistic theology as i was never a follower of Calvin.
Below are listed some scriptures to ponder and to bring us to a place of saying: "Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"
With that said let's agree on this:
a) You and i have no say in what God does or does not do = EXCEPT to believe His words and pray for others and for Revival.
Revival could and should be for ourselves, our families our neighbors, our country/government and even our enemies!
b.) God said this to JOB: 38: 4-7
Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
c.) What IF God???............Romans 9:22-24 = ???
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
d.) Isaiah 46:10
Remember this, and show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
If we FOCUS on the BIG PICTURE of "God is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance", - it keeps us HUMBLE/JOYFUL
She does not care what scripture states
DavidTree
Well-known member
i did not know this -ty
civic
Well-known member
the person is steeped deep in what is called hyper calvinism.
I guess now you do.
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