The Importance of The Law of Moses

[jeremiah1five]

Everyone who follows Jesus, seeks the Kingdom of God and God's Righteousness, studies the Bible has God's Answer.
so you're not anything special.
you're just one of hundreds of millions of people who have the answers.

How can you say that? The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's Hebrew seed.
The Mosaic Covenant is between God, and Abraham's seed, a people known as the children of Israel.
The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and Judah.
So, how can you say salvation which is of the covenants is for millions of Gentiles?
By believing that you're believing a lie. God made no covenant with Gentiles. None.

really?
that must have been painful.
it's my understanding that Jesus paid the price, and we get the pleasure of exploring Him, and his Word to learn.

You obviously do not know or understand the dynamic involved when God educates His kids.

Everyone who follows Jesus has their own calling. So, no. I wouldn't want yours, any more than you'd want mine.

?

I doubt you have a calling. A true believer cannot be as ignorant of the things of God as you are.

 

[SteveB]

How can you say that? The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's Hebrew seed.

You don’t read much do you?
Habakkuk 2:4 says the just shall live by faith.

The Mosaic Covenant is between God, and Abraham's seed, a people known as the children of Israel.

the Mosaic Covenant, yes.
I'm not a member of the Mosaic Covenant.

the Covenant of YHVH with Abraham is through faith. Genesis 15:6

The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and Judah.

rather terrifying it isn't it!

So, how can you say salvation which is of the covenants is for millions of Gentiles?

i don’t.
Scripture does.

By believing that you're believing a lie. God made no covenant with Gentiles. None.

he actually made it with Abram, whom YHVH renamed Abraham.

You obviously do not know or understand the dynamic involved when God educates His kids.

That's the great thing about this....
you're not my source.

I doubt you have a calling.

good. I wasn't looking for your permission or your approval.
Your doubt makes you irrelevant to any further discussion with me about this.

A true believer cannot be as ignorant of the things of God as you are.

As you so eloquently stated....
You doubt.
So,

Your doubt makes you irrelevant to any further discussion with me about this.


Ciao.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You don’t read much do you?
Habakkuk 2:4 says the just shall live by faith.

And Habakkuk, a prophet to Israel, was addressing Israel. God's message to His covenant people. It is the just OF ISRAEL shall live by faith. ALL 39 "books" of the Hebrew Scripture, the Old Testament, have Israel as the recipients of all messages God chose to send to Israel. That's the context of who Habakkuk was prophesying against.

the Mosaic Covenant, yes.
I'm not a member of the Mosaic Covenant.

You have to be the seed of Abraham to be in ANY of the three Hebrew covenants.
God made no covenant with any non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.

the Covenant of YHVH with Abraham is through faith. Genesis 15:6

And you accuse me of not being able to read? It's you. Unless you're of the teaching that you can add things to the Word of God that you see fit.
A study of the Abraham Covenant reveals there is no requirement from God for faith in His people. The ONLY requirement is circumcision, and it was instructed of Abraham and his seed.
As a matter of fact, neither is there any requirement of faith from God to His people in the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant. There's no mention of it and there is no requirement from God in these covenants.
But there is a requirement from God that the children of Israel OBEY Him in the Mosaic Covenant.
And that's it.

rather terrifying it isn't it!
i don’t.
Scripture does.

And you add things to Scripture - like adding faith as a requirement of God to Abraham and his seed. A moment ago, you say you're not a "member of the Mosaic Covenant" and a moment later you apply faith to the Abraham covenant.
So, if you're not a member of the Mosaic Covenant then YOU CAN'T BE SAVED.

he actually made it with Abram, whom YHVH renamed Abraham.

Yes, and Abraham is a descendant of Eber whom the Hebrew people receive as the father of the Hebrew people. This is the reason why God identifies Abram as a Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) so there be no mistaking that Abram the Hebrew's seed are Hebrew people who have covenant with God. There are no non-Hebrews in any of the three Hebrew Covenants. None.
But you are free to add to the bible things not there. Gentiles do that all the time. Like you just done.

That's the great thing about this....
you're not my source.

Neither is Scripture. You seem to have such liberties with God's Holy Word to add and subtract things to and from it as you see fit.

good. I wasn't looking for your permission or your approval.
Your doubt makes you irrelevant to any further discussion with me about this.

Good for you. But approval from brethren is required. You just don't know that context in which God commanded it.

As you so eloquently stated....
You doubt.
So,
Your doubt makes you irrelevant to any further discussion with me about this.
Ciao.

Yes, I doubt you are sincerely saved. To be saved one must be in the Mosaic Covenant - you say you're not. I agree.
Saul says in his personal letter to Timothy that Scripture - the Old Testament - is "profitable for doctrine," but it's hard to hold to doctrine when someone adds to the Scripture things that are not there, like the faith you claim God requires of Abraham and his seed in his covenant.
I suggest you take Scripture as written and stop adding to the bible things not there.

 

[SteveB]

And Habakkuk, a prophet to Israel, was addressing Israel. God's message to His covenant people. It is the just OF ISRAEL shall live by faith. ALL 39 "books" of the Hebrew Scripture, the Old Testament, have Israel as the recipients of all messages God chose to send to Israel. That's the context of who Habakkuk was prophesying against.

You have to be the seed of Abraham to be in ANY of the three Hebrew covenants.
God made no covenant with any non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.

And you accuse me of not being able to read? It's you. Unless you're of the teaching that you can add things to the Word of God that you see fit.
A study of the Abraham Covenant reveals there is no requirement from God for faith in His people. The ONLY requirement is circumcision, and it was instructed of Abraham and his seed.
As a matter of fact, neither is there any requirement of faith from God to His people in the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant. There's no mention of it and there is no requirement from God in these covenants.
But there is a requirement from God that the children of Israel OBEY Him in the Mosaic Covenant.
And that's it.

And you add things to Scripture - like adding faith as a requirement of God to Abraham and his seed. A moment ago, you say you're not a "member of the Mosaic Covenant" and a moment later you apply faith to the Abraham covenant.
So, if you're not a member of the Mosaic Covenant then YOU CAN'T BE SAVED.

Yes, and Abraham is a descendant of Eber whom the Hebrew people receive as the father of the Hebrew people. This is the reason why God identifies Abram as a Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) so there be no mistaking that Abram the Hebrew's seed are Hebrew people who have covenant with God. There are no non-Hebrews in any of the three Hebrew Covenants. None.
But you are free to add to the bible things not there. Gentiles do that all the time. Like you just done.

Neither is Scripture. You seem to have such liberties with God's Holy Word to add and subtract things to and from it as you see fit.

Good for you. But approval from brethren is required. You just don't know that context in which God commanded it.

Yes, I doubt you are sincerely saved. To be saved one must be in the Mosaic Covenant - you say you're not. I agree.
Saul says in his personal letter to Timothy that Scripture - the Old Testament - is "profitable for doctrine," but it's hard to hold to doctrine when someone adds to the Scripture things that are not there, like the faith you claim God requires of Abraham and his seed in his covenant.
I suggest you take Scripture as written and stop adding to the bible things not there.

This is increasingly important to note.
You're desperately clinging to the notion that Gentiles can only go to hell, and have no hope of salvation from sin.

There's only one person who actually enjoys that idea.


Why are you so terrified of Gentiles experiencing YHVH's salvation through Jesus Christ?

 

[jeremiah1five]

This is increasingly important to note.
You're desperately clinging to the notion that Gentiles can only go to hell, and have no hope of salvation from sin.

If God made salvation covenant with Israel (Abraham and his seed), then tell me where is the salvation covenant with non-Hebrews? What chapter and verse? Because I don't find it in Scripture. And I don't add to Scripture or twist Scripture to prove my pet theories. I take Scripture as written and I find no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.
Do you?

There's only one person who actually enjoys that idea.

Yes, God.

Why are you so terrified of Gentiles experiencing YHVH's salvation through Jesus Christ?

I'm not terrified. I realize nothing like that is going to happen and I say so. Everyone here (mostly) seems to have bought into this false idea that non-Hebrew Gentiles have a covenant with God. They don't. And I say so.

 

[TomL]

That is the thing about learning about beginnings from a Gentile bible and Hebrew records and oral and other historical text not available to non-Hebrews unless you do a precise search. Believe me, if you were to search reputable Hebrew archives there will be enough to make you think twice about what you know and believe.
And why.

So you place uninspired Hebrew writings above New Testament scripture?

 

[TomL]

If God made salvation covenant with Israel (Abraham and his seed), then tell me where is the salvation covenant with non-Hebrews? What chapter and verse? Because I don't find it in Scripture. And I don't add to Scripture or twist Scripture to prove my pet theories. I take Scripture as written and I find no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.
Do you?

Yes, God.

I'm not terrified. I realize nothing like that is going to happen and I say so. Everyone here (mostly) seems to have bought into this false idea that non-Hebrew Gentiles have a covenant with God. They don't. And I say so.

You stand opposed to the work of Christ

 

[SteveB]

If God made salvation covenant with Israel (Abraham and his seed), then tell me where is the salvation covenant with non-Hebrews?

throughout the entire Bible.
As Paul describes in his letter to Timothy....
ALL scripture is God-Breathed.
as such- Jesus said,
in the volume of the book it is written of me- Psalms 40. Reiterated in Hebrews 10, and alluded to in John 5.

What chapter and verse? Because I don't find it in Scripture.

that just means you're not actually reading, or paying attention to everything.
there are 31,102 verses in the Bible.
you should be paying attention to all of them.

And I don't add to Scripture or twist Scripture to prove my pet theories.

actually, that's exactly what you're doing.
we refer to that as doctrines of demons, and false teaching.

I take Scripture as written and I find no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.

This just tells me you're not actually paying attention to whatever you do read.


In doing a word search in the Tanakh, I have well over 600 uses of the word, Nations.

It starts in Genesis 12.
So, literally throughout the entire Bible.

Gen 12:3 Tanakh-1917 And I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse; and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’

Through to Malachi.

Mal 1:14 Tanakh-1917But cursed be he that dealeth craftily, Whereas he hath in his flock a male, And voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a blemished thing; For I am a great King, Saith the LORD of hosts, And My name is feared among the nations.

Do you?

daily.

Yes, God.

Nope.
it's written in both Ezekiel 18, and in 33, God takes no delight in the death of the wicked.
So, you're telling lies in the name of YHVH.
Jesus said that the devil is the father of lies.

I'm not terrified.

Clearly you are. Otherwise you wouldn't be continuing to lie to people who follow Jesus and are Gentiles, they aren't welcome into the Kingdom of God.

I realize nothing like that is going to happen and I say so.

Clearly you aren't reading.

Everyone here (mostly) seems to have bought into this false idea that non-Hebrew Gentiles have a covenant with God.

It's a good thing then that Jesus brings us into the Father’s Kingdom, through his blood, and resurrection.

They don't.

We do actually. Through Jesus Christ.

And I say so.

Yep.
You daily tell lies, and believe you're doing YHVH a service.

Which is ironic, because Jesus said people like you would show up.

Joh 16:1-4 WEB 1 “I have said these things to you so that you wouldn’t be caused to stumble. 2 They will put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers service to God. 3 They will do these things because they have not known the Father nor me. 4 But I have told you these things so that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you about them. I didn’t tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.

 

[TomL]

If God made salvation covenant with Israel (Abraham and his seed), then tell me where is the salvation covenant with non-Hebrews? What chapter and verse? Because I don't find it in Scripture. And I don't add to Scripture or twist Scripture to prove my pet theories. I take Scripture as written and I find no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.
Do you?

Believing gentiles are Abraham's seed

Galatians 3:26–29 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And you are opposed to the promises of God

 

[jeremiah1five]

throughout the entire Bible.
As Paul describes in his letter to Timothy....
ALL scripture is God-Breathed.
as such- Jesus said,
in the volume of the book it is written of me- Psalms 40. Reiterated in Hebrews 10, and alluded to in John 5.

The "All Scripture" that's inspiration of God (God-breathed) is the Hebrew Scripture (Genesis to Malachi.)
Jesus said nothing about any letters or gospels being "God-breathed." All that came about through Gentile handling of Greek texts in order to establish what writings were valid and worth dying for as the reason for the collection of scrolls was in response to persecution of the Jewish Church - and later of the Gentile religion which they attached "Christian" to - because believers were being killed for possessing writings/scrolls from people and writers that were not part of the Gentile "church." The question was would a believer be prepared to die for possessing the "Gospel of Phillip" or the "Gospel of Peter," or other supposed church-related writings.
Thus, it is the Hebrew Scripture that Jesus taught and authorized "beginning from Moses and the prophets," it is the Scripture Peter said "lives and abides forever," and the "All Scripture" Saul said was "God-breathed."
None of the prophets - nor Jesus and Moses - ever said anything about future "Scripture" that was profitable for "doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness" as authoritative for His Church, a Church He promised to build beginning on Pentecost in which three thousand Jews were the foundation of the Jewish Church.
The writings from Matthew including Acts and the letters are without any validation from God, Christ, or Moses.
Surprise!

that just means you're not actually reading, or paying attention to everything.
there are 31,102 verses in the Bible.
you should be paying attention to all of them.

Yeah, but NONE of the record God making a covenant to non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.

actually, that's exactly what you're doing.
we refer to that as doctrines of demons, and false teaching.

Nah. It's the Word of God.

This just tells me you're not actually paying attention to whatever you do read.

I know God made covenant with a man identified as "Abram the Hebrew" and with Abram's Hebrew seed; that the Mosaic Covenant through Moses is between God and the children of Israel, and the New Covenant which is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth is between God and the House of Israel and Judah - but there are NO Gentiles in any of these three covenants.

In doing a word search in the Tanakh, I have well over 600 uses of the word, Nations.

It starts in Genesis 12.
So, literally throughout the entire Bible.

Tell me, if you take "nations" to means "Gentile(s)" then tell me how can two Hebrew parents birth a non-Hebrew child?
Abraham and Sarai were from the same descendance of Eber, from where we get the Hebrew word and family. Abraham married Sarai his niece. If Eber is the beginning of the Hebrew race, a race not only separated by obedience to God and a river from the rest of the Adamites who would soon be ruled by Nimrod, separated by ethnicity and then separated by covenant and then still deeper separated by circumcision from the rest of the Adamites with whom God has no covenant.

Gen 12:3 Tanakh-1917 And I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse; and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’

God is talking about his families born through Ishmael and Esau. They were circumcised and in covenant but the promises went through to Isaac and then his son, Jacob. It's a family covenant between God and the Hebrew people. Don't they teach you that?

Through to Malachi.

Mal 1:14 Tanakh-1917But cursed be he that dealeth craftily, Whereas he hath in his flock a male, And voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a blemished thing; For I am a great King, Saith the LORD of hosts, And My name is feared among the nations.

By the time several generations later is when "nations" was also used on not only Abraham's seed of Hebrews but also anyone who was NOT Abraham's seed and here you have your Gentiles. But I ask you a question after you read these passages:

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. Gen. 17:6.

.....and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Gen. 17:13.

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:15–16.

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen. 17:19–21.

Now, let's see if you are a biblical Christian or not. Do you take your understanding from Scripture, or do you allow men's theologies tell you what to believe? Personally, knowing all the Gentile theology textbook responses, and knowing Gentile theology I can tell if you are someone who takes Scripture as written EVEN IF it contradicts with what you've been taught of learned.

Looking at the passages above. Abram was Hebrew from the family of Eber to Noah to Shem, etc., to Abraham. Abraham married his niece (his brother's daughter) and so we have two Hebrews in Abraham and Sarai. Now, look at your definition of "nations." You say it always refers to non-Hebrew Gentiles. And this is where you are wrong. Case in point: ever heard of the nation of Israel? Does the descriptive "nation" mean that this Hebrew people is a nation of Gentiles? No, it doesn't. And at this point you should agree.

In Genesis 17:6 God says this (He IS the Author of Scripture, right?)

I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee
Can non-Hebrews come "of thee" or kings come "out of thee" (Abraham)? Can non-Hebrews be born to two Hebrew parents?

Now, let's take a look at Genesis 17:13

.....and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

"In your flesh" means biologically Hebrew since Abraham is Hebrew and Sarai is Hebrew, and it is in this Hebrew flesh that the covenant is passed to.

On to Genesis 17:15-16. It says:

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
Again, can two Hebrew parents birth a non-Hebrew Gentile child? These "nations" shall be of her. Here, "nations" cannot be translated to mean Gentile. One more time:

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Verse 19..."with his seed after him." This cannot mean anything but that Isaac's and Jacob's and his twelve sons and their children, who were strictly when they obeyed God married among their tribes, means that Isaac as a Hebrew who married a Hebrew cousin cannot sire non-Hebrew children. But it does say that through God's promise to Abraham that his seed will be as the stars of heaven, biologically speaking, non-Hebrews cannot be born to Hebrew parents. This is common sense. Do you have common sense. It also says that through Ishmael's twelve sons that they will be a "great nation." Even here, Ishmael being of mixed heritage and the seed of Abraham, God made him a "great nation" of mixed heritage Hebrew-Egyptian and other intermarriages in Canaan who lived in and around Canaan, or in Egypt, of Saudi Arabie, etc.

Follow the text. Think it through. The word "nations" means "massing" as in people which is why it is used of Abraham's seed. They are not Gentile but only a "massing" of people, a "great nation." "Nations" did not come to mean "Gentiles" unless the context was describing non-Hebrews. But the word merely means "massing" [of people] NOT Gentiles.

daily.
Nope.
it's written in both Ezekiel 18, and in 33, God takes no delight in the death of the wicked.
So, you're telling lies in the name of YHVH.
Jesus said that the devil is the father of lies.

God's Word is referring to the death of wicked Hebrews. The Old Testament is a testament of God's dealing with His people the Hebrews. Stop looking at Scripture as though God is dealing with Gentiles. He is not, at least not in the same way He deals with the seed of Abraham, the apple of His eye, His Beloved, His Church, His special people, ABOVE all the people on the face of the earth.

Clearly you are. Otherwise you wouldn't be continuing to lie to people who follow Jesus and are Gentiles, they aren't welcome into the Kingdom of God.

Since the covenant is between Abraham and his seed and God, the mention of "Gentiles" in the NT refers to Hebrews of mixed heritage who grew up as Gentiles in Gentile lands under the heavy influence of Greek culture. For 21 generations since 522BC and even before, when Israel was captured and exiled many lost their Hebrew heritage - especially if the father is Gentile. He would have raised his kids as a Gentile. This was the issue of "Gentiles" and the Jerusalem Council to decide if they should be circumcised. They decided no circumcision, but they did do something that indicates these "Gentiles" were of Hebrew descent, and that was they gave them the Law of Moses to follow. If they were non-Hebrew Gentile, the apostles would NOT have given non-Hebrew Gentiles the Law to follow.

Clearly you aren't reading.
It's a good thing then that Jesus brings us into the Father’s Kingdom, through his blood, and resurrection.

And who's "us"? Gentiles? Nope. There are NO GENTILES in any of the three Hebrew covenants.

We do actually. Through Jesus Christ.
Yep.
You daily tell lies, and believe you're doing YHVH a service.
Which is ironic, because Jesus said people like you would show up.

Joh 16:1-4 WEB 1 “I have said these things to you so that you wouldn’t be caused to stumble. 2 They will put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers service to God. 3 They will do these things because they have not known the Father nor me. 4 But I have told you these things so that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you about them. I didn’t tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.

You are infected with false Constantinian Gentile theology.
Jesus said, "Scripture CANNOT be broken."
This means no one can add to, subtract from, or otherwise change what has been written in the Word of God through the prophets.
Thus, if the Scripture says God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and with his seed, then that means his Hebrew seed because as we covered above no non-Hebrews can be born to two Hebrew parents. This means that like the Samaritans who were of mixed heritage, Jesus established that since they were STILL Abraham's seed that they are STILL heirs of the covenant and the promises no matter the dilution of their DNA. IF they were Abraham's seed, then the covenant belongs to them along with the promises. That's all I am saying.
I am also saying what the Scripture doesn't say, and that the Scripture doesn't say anything about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, ever having made a covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.
Do you know of any Scripture in the OT of God making a covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles?
Don't say yes because you'll be lying.

 

[TomL]

The "All Scripture" that's inspiration of God (God-breathed) is the Hebrew Scripture (Genesis to Malachi.)
Jesus said nothing about any letters or gospels being "God-breathed." All that came about through Gentile handling of Greek texts in order to establish what writings were valid and worth dying for as the reason for the collection of scrolls was in response to persecution of the Jewish Church - and later of the Gentile religion which they attached "Christian" to - because believers were being killed for possessing writings/scrolls from people and writers that were not part of the Gentile "church." The question was would a believer be prepared to die for possessing the "Gospel of Phillip" or the "Gospel of Peter," or other supposed church-related writings.
Thus, it is the Hebrew Scripture that Jesus taught and authorized "beginning from Moses and the prophets," it is the Scripture Peter said "lives and abides forever," and the "All Scripture" Saul said was "God-breathed."
None of the prophets - nor Jesus and Moses - ever said anything about future "Scripture" that was profitable for "doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness" as authoritative for His Church, a Church He promised to build beginning on Pentecost in which three thousand Jews were the foundation of the Jewish Church.
The writings from Matthew including Acts and the letters are without any validation from God, Christ, or Moses.
Surprise!

Jesus refutes you

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

 

[SteveB]

The "All Scripture" that's inspiration of God (God-breathed) is the Hebrew Scripture (Genesis to Malachi.)

So you didn't actually read what I stated did you!
That's why i quoted Psalms 40, and then referred to the use of that passage in Hebrews 10, and Jesus' allusion to it in John 5.
come on J5. Pay attention!

Jesus said nothing about any letters or gospels being "God-breathed."

actually, he said
Joh 5:45-47 WEB 45 “Don’t think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, even Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me. 47 But if you don’t believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

All that came about through Gentile handling of Greek texts in order to establish what writings were valid and worth dying for as the reason for the collection of scrolls was in response to persecution of the Jewish Church - and later of the Gentile religion which they attached "Christian" to - because believers were being killed for possessing writings/scrolls from people and writers that were not part of the Gentile "church." The question was would a believer be prepared to die for possessing the "Gospel of Phillip" or the "Gospel of Peter," or other supposed church-related writings.

I suppose it's a good thing then that I've never actually read either of those.

Thus, it is the Hebrew Scripture that Jesus taught and authorized "beginning from Moses and the prophets," it is the Scripture Peter said "lives and abides forever," and the "All Scripture" Saul said was "God-breathed."

further validating

Joh 5:45-47 WEB 45 “Don’t think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, even Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me. 47 But if you don’t believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

None of the prophets - nor Jesus and Moses - ever said anything about future "Scripture" that was profitable for "doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness" as authoritative for His Church, a Church He promised to build beginning on Pentecost in which three thousand Jews were the foundation of the Jewish Church.

Interesting....
You never actually read John 16 then.

Joh 16:12-15 WEB 12 “I still have many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now. 13 However, when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take from what is mine and will declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are mine; therefore I said that he takes of mine and will declare it to you.

The writings from Matthew including Acts and the letters are without any validation from God, Christ, or Moses.
Surprise!

So, in your opinion, the 4 gospels which document the teachings of Jesus don't actually present the Rhema?
I suppose that would explain why you're afraid of the salvation of God being offered to Gentiles.

Isa 65:15 WEB You will leave your name for a curse to my chosen, and the Lord Yahweh will kill you. He will call his servants by another name,

Yeah, but NONE of the record God making a covenant to non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.

you seem desperate to exclude Gentiles from enjoying the Grace of God through Jesus Christ.

Nah. It's the Word of God.

Never said otherwise.
YHVH's Word welcomes Gentiles to be a part of his Kingdom.

I know God made covenant with a man identified as "Abram the Hebrew" and with Abram's Hebrew seed;

it clearly states that all the nations of the earth will be blessed through his seed.
all the nations means Gentiles....
those nasty goy you despise so readily, as fit only for fueling the fires of hell.

that the Mosaic Covenant through Moses is between God and the children of Israel,

yep.

and the New Covenant which is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth is between God and the House of Israel and Judah - but there are NO Gentiles in any of these three covenants.

yet, it's quite clear that Gentiles are invited and welcomed by YHVH himself.

Tell me, if you take "nations" to means "Gentile(s)" then tell me how can two Hebrew parents birth a non-Hebrew child?

Abram, and Sarai, were both Gentiles, from southern iraq. Ur of the Chaldees.
YHVH made them Hebrew.
Google's AI says that the origin of the word- Hebrew is uncertain. It gives several different ideas.
one of which is that he's a descendant of Eber.
which simply means he's a gentile.

Abraham and Sarai were from the same descendance of Eber, from where we get the Hebrew word and family.

You should read the Google AI discussion.
Eber, while indeed a person who is descended from Noah, and his son, Shem, is still a gentile.

Abraham married Sarai his niece. If Eber is the beginning of the Hebrew race, a race not only separated by obedience to God and a river from the rest of the Adamites who would soon be ruled by Nimrod, separated by ethnicity and then separated by covenant and then still deeper separated by circumcision from the rest of the Adamites with whom God has no covenant.

Sounds like you're stretching to justify your opinion.

God is talking about his families born through Ishmael and Esau.

so, muslims are the only Gentiles who can be saved?

They were circumcised and in covenant but the promises went through to Isaac and then his son, Jacob. It's a family covenant between God and the Hebrew people. Don't they teach you that?

It's a good thing then that an highly educated Benjamite, says that circumcision doesn't save .

By the time several generations later is when "nations" was also used on not only Abraham's seed of Hebrews but also anyone who was NOT Abraham's seed and here you have your Gentiles. But I ask you a question after you read these passages:

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. Gen. 17:6.

.....and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Gen. 17:13.

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:15–16.

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen. 17:19–21.

Now, let's see if you are a biblical Christian or not.

not according to you I'm not.
I'm Gentile. According to you, Gentiles cannot be saved, because they are not of the blood lineage of Abraham.

Do you take your understanding from Scripture, or do you allow men's theologies tell you what to believe? Personally, knowing all the Gentile theology textbook responses, and knowing Gentile theology I can tell if you are someone who takes Scripture as written EVEN IF it contradicts with what you've been taught of learned.

Looking at the passages above. Abram was Hebrew from the family of Eber to Noah to Shem, etc., to Abraham. Abraham married his niece (his brother's daughter) and so we have two Hebrews in Abraham and Sarai. Now, look at your definition of "nations." You say it always refers to non-Hebrew Gentiles. And this is where you are wrong. Case in point: ever heard of the nation of Israel? Does the descriptive "nation" mean that this Hebrew people is a nation of Gentiles? No, it doesn't. And at this point you should agree.

In Genesis 17:6 God says this (He IS the Author of Scripture, right?)

I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee
Can non-Hebrews come "of thee" or kings come "out of thee" (Abraham)? Can non-Hebrews be born to two Hebrew parents?

Now, let's take a look at Genesis 17:13

.....and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

"In your flesh" means biologically Hebrew since Abraham is Hebrew and Sarai is Hebrew, and it is in this Hebrew flesh that the covenant is passed to.

On to Genesis 17:15-16. It says:

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
Again, can two Hebrew parents birth a non-Hebrew Gentile child? These "nations" shall be of her. Here, "nations" cannot be translated to mean Gentile. One more time:

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Verse 19..."with his seed after him." This cannot mean anything but that Isaac's and Jacob's and his twelve sons and their children, who were strictly when they obeyed God married among their tribes, means that Isaac as a Hebrew who married a Hebrew cousin cannot sire non-Hebrew children. But it does say that through God's promise to Abraham that his seed will be as the stars of heaven, biologically speaking, non-Hebrews cannot be born to Hebrew parents. This is common sense. Do you have common sense. It also says that through Ishmael's twelve sons that they will be a "great nation." Even here, Ishmael being of mixed heritage and the seed of Abraham, God made him a "great nation" of mixed heritage Hebrew-Egyptian and other intermarriages in Canaan who lived in and around Canaan, or in Egypt, of Saudi Arabie, etc.

Follow the text. Think it through. The word "nations" means "massing" as in people which is why it is used of Abraham's seed. They are not Gentile but only a "massing" of people, a "great nation." "Nations" did not come to mean "Gentiles" unless the context was describing non-Hebrews. But the word merely means "massing" [of people] NOT Gentiles.


God's Word is referring to the death of wicked Hebrews. The Old Testament is a testament of God's dealing with His people the Hebrews. Stop looking at Scripture as though God is dealing with Gentiles. He is not, at least not in the same way He deals with the seed of Abraham, the apple of His eye, His Beloved, His Church, His special people, ABOVE all the people on the face of the earth.

Since the covenant is between Abraham and his seed and God, the mention of "Gentiles" in the NT refers to Hebrews of mixed heritage who grew up as Gentiles in Gentile lands under the heavy influence of Greek culture. For 21 generations since 522BC and even before, when Israel was captured and exiled many lost their Hebrew heritage - especially if the father is Gentile. He would have raised his kids as a Gentile. This was the issue of "Gentiles" and the Jerusalem Council to decide if they should be circumcised. They decided no circumcision, but they did do something that indicates these "Gentiles" were of Hebrew descent, and that was they gave them the Law of Moses to follow. If they were non-Hebrew Gentile, the apostles would NOT have given non-Hebrew Gentiles the Law to follow.

And who's "us"? Gentiles? Nope. There are NO GENTILES in any of the three Hebrew covenants.

You are infected with false Constantinian Gentile theology.

and here it is.
what does that even mean?
how do i know it's not actually you who is infected with false Constantinian theology?

Jesus said, "Scripture CANNOT be broken."

Yep. He sure did. But you're claiming Gentiles cannot be born again.

This means no one can add to, subtract from, or otherwise change what has been written in the Word of God through the prophets.

yet that's exactly what you're doing.

Thus, if the Scripture says God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and with his seed, then that means his Hebrew seed because as we covered above no non-Hebrews can be born to two Hebrew parents.

This means that like the Samaritans who were of mixed heritage, Jesus established that since they were STILL Abraham's seed that they are STILL heirs of the covenant and the promises no matter the dilution of their DNA. IF they were Abraham's seed, then the covenant belongs to them along with the promises. That's all I am saying.
I am also saying what the Scripture doesn't say, and that the Scripture doesn't say anything about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, ever having made a covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.
Do you know of any Scripture in the OT of God making a covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles?
Don't say yes because you'll be lying.

Well, just as long as you're right, the truth doesn't actually matter now does it!

I'll stick with Jesus, and the Bible, because it's clear you're not as smart as think you bright are

 

[jeremiah1five]

So you didn't actually read what I stated did you!
That's why i quoted Psalms 40, and then referred to the use of that passage in Hebrews 10, and Jesus' allusion to it in John 5.
come on J5. Pay attention!

You can misunderstand Scripture as other Constantinian Gentiles do in which they believe there are non-Hebrews in the Hebrew covenants.

actually, he said
Joh 5:45-47 WEB 45 “Don’t think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, even Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me. 47 But if you don’t believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
I suppose it's a good thing then that I've never actually read either of those.
further validating
Joh 5:45-47 WEB 45 “Don’t think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, even Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me. 47 But if you don’t believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
Interesting....
You never actually read John 16 then.

Joh 16:12-15 WEB 12 “I still have many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now. 13 However, when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take from what is mine and will declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are mine; therefore I said that he takes of mine and will declare it to you.
So, in your opinion, the 4 gospels which document the teachings of Jesus don't actually present the Rhema?
I suppose that would explain why you're afraid of the salvation of God being offered to Gentiles.

I'm neither afraid nor convinced the Hebrew covenants include non-Hebrews. God made no covenant with non-Hebrews.

Isa 65:15 WEB You will leave your name for a curse to my chosen, and the Lord Yahweh will kill you. He will call his servants by another name,
you seem desperate to exclude Gentiles from enjoying the Grace of God through Jesus Christ.

I am one who TAKES OUT from Scripture what is written. I don't add to the Word of God and the Word of God as written excludes non-Hebrews from God's covenants.

Never said otherwise.
YHVH's Word welcomes Gentiles to be a part of his Kingdom.

If that were true they would have to first be in the Abraham covenant, but they are not named or identified as being in the Abraham Covenant in the chapter and verses where the Abraham Covenant is made (Gen. 12, 15, and 17.)

it clearly states that all the nations of the earth will be blessed through his seed.
all the nations means Gentiles....
those nasty goy you despise so readily, as fit only for fueling the fires of hell.

You take "nations" as meaning "Gentile", but this is not always the case. You forget that Abraham and Sarai would be the proud parents of "nations" which doesn't mean "non-Hebrew" for how can two Hebrew parents have non-Hebrew children? The answer is they can't. Case in point. God promised "nations" and "kings" shall be of Her or shall come out of thee (Abraham.)

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. 17:16.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee Gen. 17:6.

Again, if you take "nations" to strictly mean "non-Hebrew Gentiles" then you would be wrong for the word "nations" does not mean "non-Hebrew Gentiles" for it is biologically for two Hebrew parents to birth non-Hebrew Gentiles and these passages above reject your understanding of the word "nations." But it fits perfectly when applied to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. Both were Abraham's seed but not in covenant for in the case of Ishmael he was of mixed heritage from the union of Abraham (Hebrew) and an Egyptian woman (non-Hebrew Gentile.)

Esau married three women:

• Judith, the daughter of Beeri the Hittite
• Basemath, the daughter of Elon the Hittite
• Mahalat, the daughter of Ishmael

These marriages caused grief to his parents, Isaac and Rebekah, as they were Canaanites and not considered suitable wives for their son. Abraham married in the family of Hebrews and Jacob married in the family of Hebrews.

yep.
yet, it's quite clear that Gentiles are invited and welcomed by YHVH himself.

Again, non-Hebrew Gentiles are NOT in any of the Hebrew covenants.

Abram, and Sarai, were both Gentiles, from southern iraq. Ur of the Chaldees.
YHVH made them Hebrew.

The terminology of the word "Hebrew" comes from the identification of Eber. Hebrew begins with him as his name is referenced by Hebrews today as the beginning of the Hebrew people.

Google's AI says that the origin of the word- Hebrew is uncertain. It gives several different ideas.
one of which is that he's a descendant of Eber.
which simply means he's a gentile.

How can God call a non-Hebrew person a Gentile when his parents are of Hebrew descent? Even God Himself identifies Abraham as a Hebrew:

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

You should read the Google AI discussion.
Eber, while indeed a person who is descended from Noah, and his son, Shem, is still a gentile.

Google AI is invented by non-Hebrew Gentiles. It gets its theology from non-Hebrew Gentile sources.

Sounds like you're stretching to justify your opinion.
so, muslims are the only Gentiles who can be saved?

Nope. The Promises passed to Isaac the Hebrew and Jacob the Hebrew and to Jacob's Hebrew descendants. Muslims

It's a good thing then that an highly educated Benjamite, says that circumcision doesn't save .
not according to you I'm not.
I'm Gentile. According to you, Gentiles cannot be saved, because they are not of the blood lineage of Abraham.

How far back can you trace your lineage? Your answer does not go back far enough. So, if you are truly born-again then there is 100% probability there's a Hebrew in your ancestry for God has no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. But God does state salvation for Abraham and his seed and only Abraham's seed are in the covenant that bears his name.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Gen. 17:10.

and here it is.
what does that even mean?
how do i know it's not actually you who is infected with false Constantinian theology?

Because I hold strictly to the three Hebrew covenants as covenants God made with the Hebrew people ONLY.

The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's seed.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Gen. 17:10.

The Mosaic Covenant is between God and the Hebrew children of Israel.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Ex 19:5–6.

The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and of Judah.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:31.

That's all one needs to know. Adding non-Hebrew Gentiles to the Hebrew covenants breaks and violates Scripture. That's what your theology does.

Yep. He sure did. But you're claiming Gentiles cannot be born again.
yet that's exactly what you're doing.

In the three Hebrew covenants God never mentions non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of His covenants. NONE.

Well, just as long as you're right, the truth doesn't actually matter now does it!
I'll stick with Jesus, and the Bible, because it's clear you're not as smart as think you bright are

Continuing to teach non-Hebrews in the Hebrew covenants breaks and violates Scripture. In all three covenants there is no mention or naming non-Hebrews in these covenants. Why is this so very difficult for you? If non-Hebrews were in any of the three Hebrew covenants God would say so but He doesn't.

 

[SteveB]

You can misunderstand Scripture as other Constantinian Gentiles do in which they believe there are non-Hebrews in the Hebrew covenants.

What is a Constantinian Gentile?
You're the only person I've ever seen use this epithet.

I'm neither afraid nor convinced the Hebrew covenants include non-Hebrews. God made no covenant with non-Hebrews.

Then this entire rant of yours is literally irrelevant.

I am one who TAKES OUT from Scripture what is written.

so you extricate what fits your biases, and preconceptions and ignore everything else.
Got it.

I don't add to the Word of God and the Word of God as written excludes non-Hebrews from God's covenants.

It's pretty straightforward that you ignore anything that would counter your preconceptions and biases.

If that were true they would have to first be in the Abraham covenant, but they are not named or identified as being in the Abraham Covenant in the chapter and verses where the Abraham Covenant is made (Gen. 12, 15, and 17.)

Genesis 12:3 is quite clear that the entire human race would be blessed through his seed.

You take "nations" as meaning "Gentile", but this is not always the case.

you're not very bright.
Gentiles comes from the word, goyim. Nations is translated from the word, goyim.


H1471
Original: גּי גּוי

Transliteration: gôy gôy

Phonetic: go'-ee

BDB Definition:

nation, people (noun masculine)
nation, people
usually of non-Hebrew people
of descendants of Abraham
of Israel
of swarm of locusts, other animals (figuratively)
Goyim? = " nations" (noun proper masculine)
Origin: apparently from the same root as H1465

TWOT entry: 326e

Part(s) of speech:

Strong's Definition: Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation ; hence a Gentile ; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Total KJV Occurrences: 558

You forget that Abraham and Sarai would be the proud parents of "nations" which doesn't mean "non-Hebrew" for how can two Hebrew parents have non-Hebrew children? The answer is they can't. Case in point. God promised "nations" and "kings" shall be of Her or shall come out of thee (Abraham.)

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. 17:16.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee Gen. 17:6.

Again, if you take "nations" to strictly mean "non-Hebrew Gentiles" then you would be wrong for the word "nations" does not mean "non-Hebrew Gentiles" for it is biologically for two Hebrew parents to birth non-Hebrew Gentiles and these passages above reject your understanding of the word "nations." But it fits perfectly when applied to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. Both were Abraham's seed but not in covenant for in the case of Ishmael he was of mixed heritage from the union of Abraham (Hebrew) and an Egyptian woman (non-Hebrew Gentile.)

Esau married three women:

• Judith, the daughter of Beeri the Hittite
• Basemath, the daughter of Elon the Hittite
• Mahalat, the daughter of Ishmael

These marriages caused grief to his parents, Isaac and Rebekah, as they were Canaanites and not considered suitable wives for their son. Abraham married in the family of Hebrews and Jacob married in the family of Hebrews.

Again, non-Hebrew Gentiles are NOT in any of the Hebrew covenants.

The terminology of the word "Hebrew" comes from the identification of Eber. Hebrew begins with him as his name is referenced by Hebrews today as the beginning of the Hebrew people.

How can God call a non-Hebrew person a Gentile when his parents are of Hebrew descent? Even God Himself identifies Abraham as a Hebrew:

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

Google AI is invented by non-Hebrew Gentiles. It gets its theology from non-Hebrew Gentile sources.

Nope. The Promises passed to Isaac the Hebrew and Jacob the Hebrew and to Jacob's Hebrew descendants. Muslims

How far back can you trace your lineage? Your answer does not go back far enough. So, if you are truly born-again then there is 100% probability there's a Hebrew in your ancestry for God has no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. But God does state salvation for Abraham and his seed and only Abraham's seed are in the covenant that bears his name.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Gen. 17:10.

Because I hold strictly to the three Hebrew covenants as covenants God made with the Hebrew people ONLY.

The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's seed.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Gen. 17:10.

The Mosaic Covenant is between God and the Hebrew children of Israel.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Ex 19:5–6.

The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and of Judah.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:31.

That's all one needs to know. Adding non-Hebrew Gentiles to the Hebrew covenants breaks and violates Scripture. That's what your theology does.

In the three Hebrew covenants God never mentions non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of His covenants. NONE.

Continuing to teach non-Hebrews in the Hebrew covenants breaks and violates Scripture. In all three covenants there is no mention or naming non-Hebrews in these covenants. Why is this so very difficult for you? If non-Hebrews were in any of the three Hebrew covenants God would say so but He doesn't.

Sounds like you're saying you prefer to be the torch guy to ignite goyim on their way to hell.

You are one seriously sick and twisted individual.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What is a Constantinian Gentile?
You're the only person I've ever seen use this epithet.

Then I suggest you expand your knowledge of the truth.

Then this entire rant of yours is literally irrelevant.

It usually is to those that lack the knowledge to understand. When one doesn't understand something put to them it is easier to just accuse someone their comments are "irrelevant."

so you extricate what fits your biases, and preconceptions and ignore everything else.
Got it.

There's only two ways about it. Either the New Covenant writers are breaking Scripture and contradicting what was written before or it's the interpretation that breaks and contradicts Scripture. Who's the guilty party? The apostles or you?

It's pretty straightforward that you ignore anything that would counter your preconceptions and biases.

I ignore the errors. Since I know the writers of the New Testament don't contradict of break Scripture, then it is your interpretations of the writers who wrote the New Covenant that is in error, and THAT is what I ignore. So, say something that doesn't contradict the Scripture and interpret something that lines up with what's already been written, and I will say, "Amen."
But you won't keep your interpretations in line with Scripture.

Genesis 12:3 is quite clear that the entire human race would be blessed through his seed.

And where does it say that "the entire human race" would be blessed through Abraham's seed?

you're not very bright.
Gentiles comes from the word, goyim. Nations is translated from the word, goyim.

So, Abraham, despite God identifying him as Hebrew in Genesis 14:13 birthed a child with a Hebrew daughter of his brother and a Gentile was born named Isaac? Is that it? Two Hebrew parents birthed a Gentile (non-Hebrew?)

H1471
Original: גּי גּוי
Transliteration: gôy gôy
Phonetic: go'-ee
BDB Definition:
nation, people (noun masculine)
nation, people
usually of non-Hebrew people
of descendants of Abraham
of Israel
of swarm of locusts, other animals (figuratively)
Goyim? = " nations" (noun proper masculine)
Origin: apparently from the same root as H1465

TWOT entry: 326e

Part(s) of speech:

Strong's Definition: Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation ; hence a Gentile ; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Total KJV Occurrences: 558

See the word "massing?" That's the meaning of the word "goy[im]" It didn't mean non-Hebrew Gentile until later. But if you want to say that from two Hebrew parents a non-Hebrew child was born, go ahead. I suppose two Russian parents can birth a Japanese baby in your reality.

Sounds like you're saying you prefer to be the torch guy to ignite goyim on their way to hell.

You are one seriously sick and twisted individual.

No, Jesus takes care of that. See the "goyim" and their fate:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev. 20:7–10.

If the Hebrews are finally residing in the land God Promised them, then this people living outside of the Camp would have to be non-Hebrew Gentiles who get torched by God.

 

[SteveB]

Then I suggest you expand your knowledge of the truth.

Yeah.
That's what I thought.
You're using phrases you have absolutely no clue what you're saying.

You're a fraud J.

You go locate a verifiable definition for Constantinian Gentile, then we can talk.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yeah.
That's what I thought.
You're using phrases you have absolutely no clue what you're saying.

You're a fraud J.

You go locate a verifiable definition for Constantinian Gentile, then we can talk.

For those who do not know the history of non-Hebrew Gentile "Christianity" the following is submitted in order to identify a portion of world history and the establishment of non-Hebrew Gentile "Christianity" that developed after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple and the end of the Second Temple era:

A "Constantinian Gentile" could be understood as a non-Jewish individual who converted to "Christianity" during or after the reign of the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great (306-337 AD). But it is not limited to this time.

This term identifies:

• Conversion during a period of non-Hebrew "Christianization": Constantine's Edict of Milan in 313 AD granted religious tolerance to Christians within the Roman Empire, marking a significant turning point in the history of non-Hebrew "Christianity." Many Gentiles (non-Jews) converted to "Christianity" during this period or shortly thereafter, due to the increased social and political acceptance of the faith (in other words, it was in vogue to be a "Christian" much like a fad or some other non-Hebrew Gentile fashions.)
• Influenced by the Constantinian Era: The term "Constantinian" identifies that these converts were influenced by the cultural, political, and religious climate established during Constantine's reign. This could include the growing prestige of "Christianity" within the Roman Empire, the establishment of "Christian" institutions, and the development of "Christian" theology and practices.

The term might be used in specific academic or theological contexts to define the experiences and beliefs of non-Jewish converts to "Christianity" during the fourth century AD and beyond.

Constantinian Gentile theology and practices are in direct contradiction to the written Word of God and true, biblical Jewish Christianity found in Scripture in which the Christ, Israel's Messiah, entered Hebrew history for the specific purpose of saving, delivering, and possessing in time those whose names are written by God in the book of life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (CREATION) of the world in eternity, in God.

The Law of Moses mandated animal sacrifice be made yearly to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. This took place yearly for centuries until God sent His Son, born of a woman, born uinder the Law, to redeem those who are under the Law as says Saul:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken." In referring to the Hebrew Scripture, the same Scripture Jesus taught His people in covenant with God, it is also true that Jesus did not come to destroy the Law (any change in the Law would break the Law), but to fulfill the Law, Jesus Christ as the lamb of God was sacrificed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel just as the animal sacrifices were made to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel, so, too, did Christ as substitute for the actual animal did indeed, finally and eternally did die to atone for the sins of the children of Israel in covenant with God. So, the teaching that non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved, or can be saved, is in direct contradiction to the Word of God which negates any atonement was made for non-Hebrew Gentiles. However, those Hebrews who were born outside Israel and in the Gentile lands God scattered His people into, who grew up as Gentile greatly influenced by Greek culture (Hellenized), and of mixed heritage and still carry the DNA of Abraham their father, are the so-called "Gentiles" mentioned in the New Covenant writings of Matthew, Peter, Saul, James, etc., are still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promises of God to His people Israel.

God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None. The conclusion of the matter rests on the Scripture which records God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles and as such non-Hebrew Gentiles are outside the covenants of God and unatoned and will die totally and completely separated from God and His graces.
Christ has only ONE Bride, not two, and she is Israel. God has ONE Church, a Great Congregation, and she is Israel. The whole record of God dealing with Abraham and his seed is found in the Hebrew Scripture from Genesis to Malachi.
The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation records the New Covenant era with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL and Israel in general through apostles and prophets trying to understand the meaning and the force of the New Covenant era Israel found herself in beginning on the Day of Pentecost. teleō.

 

[SteveB]

For those who do not know the history of non-Hebrew Gentile "Christianity" the following is submitted in order to identify a portion of world history and the establishment of non-Hebrew Gentile "Christianity" that developed after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple and the end of the Second Temple era:

A "Constantinian Gentile" could be understood as a non-Jewish individual who converted to "Christianity" during or after the reign of the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great (306-337 AD). But it is not limited to this time.

This term identifies:

• Conversion during a period of non-Hebrew "Christianization": Constantine's Edict of Milan in 313 AD granted religious tolerance to Christians within the Roman Empire, marking a significant turning point in the history of non-Hebrew "Christianity." Many Gentiles (non-Jews) converted to "Christianity" during this period or shortly thereafter, due to the increased social and political acceptance of the faith (in other words, it was in vogue to be a "Christian" much like a fad or some other non-Hebrew Gentile fashions.)
• Influenced by the Constantinian Era: The term "Constantinian" identifies that these converts were influenced by the cultural, political, and religious climate established during Constantine's reign. This could include the growing prestige of "Christianity" within the Roman Empire, the establishment of "Christian" institutions, and the development of "Christian" theology and practices.

The term might be used in specific academic or theological contexts to define the experiences and beliefs of non-Jewish converts to "Christianity" during the fourth century AD and beyond.

Constantinian Gentile theology and practices are in direct contradiction to the written Word of God and true, biblical Jewish Christianity found in Scripture in which the Christ, Israel's Messiah, entered Hebrew history for the specific purpose of saving, delivering, and possessing in time those whose names are written by God in the book of life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (CREATION) of the world in eternity, in God.

The Law of Moses mandated animal sacrifice be made yearly to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. This took place yearly for centuries until God sent His Son, born of a woman, born uinder the Law, to redeem those who are under the Law as says Saul:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken." In referring to the Hebrew Scripture, the same Scripture Jesus taught His people in covenant with God, it is also true that Jesus did not come to destroy the Law (any change in the Law would break the Law), but to fulfill the Law, Jesus Christ as the lamb of God was sacrificed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel just as the animal sacrifices were made to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel, so, too, did Christ as substitute for the actual animal did indeed, finally and eternally did die to atone for the sins of the children of Israel in covenant with God. So, the teaching that non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved, or can be saved, is in direct contradiction to the Word of God which negates any atonement was made for non-Hebrew Gentiles. However, those Hebrews who were born outside Israel and in the Gentile lands God scattered His people into, who grew up as Gentile greatly influenced by Greek culture (Hellenized), and of mixed heritage and still carry the DNA of Abraham their father, are the so-called "Gentiles" mentioned in the New Covenant writings of Matthew, Peter, Saul, James, etc., are still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promises of God to His people Israel.

God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None. The conclusion of the matter rests on the Scripture which records God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles and as such non-Hebrew Gentiles are outside the covenants of God and unatoned and will die totally and completely separated from God and His graces.
Christ has only ONE Bride, not two, and she is Israel. God has ONE Church, a Great Congregation, and she is Israel. The whole record of God dealing with Abraham and his seed is found in the Hebrew Scripture from Genesis to Malachi.
The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation records the New Covenant era with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL and Israel in general through apostles and prophets trying to understand the meaning and the force of the New Covenant era Israel found herself in beginning on the Day of Pentecost. teleō.

Good for you.
This is the year 2024. I was saved from my sin by placing my faith in Jesus, the Messiah of Israel in June 1977.

As I never attended a catholic church, I'd say that the problem you're having is that you're conflating a history which neither I, nor a multitude of other Gentile Jesus followers were never a part of.

If you really need every single Gentile, around the world perish in their sin, apart from Jesus, then you're standing in direct opposition to YHVH's Word.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Good for you.
This is the year 2024. I was saved from my sin by placing my faith in Jesus, the Messiah of Israel in June 1977.

As I never attended a catholic church, I'd say that the problem you're having is that you're conflating a history which neither I, nor a multitude of other Gentile Jesus followers were never a part of.

Where do you think Catholicism came from but Constantinian Gentile "conversions" that were the talk of the town and that if you didn't claim to be "Christian" you were targeted for persecution. Where do you think the Reformation came from except that it came from the Roman Catholics like Martin Luther.

If you really need every single Gentile, around the world perish in their sin, apart from Jesus, then you're standing in direct opposition to YHVH's Word.

Guess who perished at the Red Sea? Non-Hebrew Gentiles.
Guess who perished year after year after Moses led the Israelites into the desert, built a Tabernacle, gave the children of Israel God's Law, began offering sacrifices yearly to atone for the sins of the children of Israel ONLY. God gave the children of Israel His Law in approximately the year 1446 BC and year after year, and sacrifice after sacrifice the children of Israel enjoyed a relationship with God that non-Hebrew Gentiles did not have and they were born and died even beyond the cross without any kind of atonement for their sins. For over 1446 years non-Hebrew Gentiles lived and died never having atonement made for them. Millions and millions of non-Hebrew Gentiles went to hell straight from womb to tomb.
That's God for you. What do you think about the Creator of the universe and His attitude towards non-Hebrew Gentiles?

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Sure, God is Love, right?

 

[SteveB]

Where do you think Catholicism came from but Constantinian Gentile "conversions" that were the talk of the town and that if you didn't claim to be "Christian" you were targeted for persecution.

Well, it sure is a good thing then that i wasn't around back then. Were you? You're talking about a period 1100 years after the beginning of the church.
since the church began in Jerusalem 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus, and Jesus chose an highly educated Jewish rabbi to preach to gentiles, I'd say you need help.

Where do you think the Reformation came from except that it came from the Roman Catholics like Martin Luther.

And?
I'm not, nor have I ever been a Lutheran.

Guess who perished at the Red Sea? Non-Hebrew Gentiles.

and?
is that supposed to be my fault?

Guess who perished year after year after Moses led the Israelites into the desert, built a Tabernacle, gave the children of Israel God's Law, began offering sacrifices yearly to atone for the sins of the children of Israel ONLY. God gave the children of Israel His Law in approximately the year 1446 BC and year after year, and sacrifice after sacrifice the children of Israel enjoyed a relationship with God that non-Hebrew Gentiles did not have and they were born and died even beyond the cross without any kind of atonement for their sins. For over 1446 years non-Hebrew Gentiles lived and died never having atonement made for them. Millions and millions of non-Hebrew Gentiles went to hell straight from womb to tomb.

And? Does that make it my fault?
You're not helping yourself here.

That's God for you. What do you think about the Creator of the universe and His attitude towards non-Hebrew Gentiles?

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Sure, God is Love, right?

Yes, as a matter of fact YHVH is love.

Nothing you're posting on has any coherence.

Why are you carrying on about this?
You've made it clear that no Gentiles can be saved, so talking to Gentiles is wasting your time.