The Importance of The Law of Moses

[jeremiah1five]

So your Ethnic Cleansing spirit has found a kindred spirit in Claudius.

Therefore, since the Jewish element was totally expelled from Rome, only Gentiles remained. The Romans made sure of that. If you don't believe it then that's on you to prove otherwise. The only Jews that remained in Rome after they were all expelled by Claudius were the ones imagined by your Ethnic Cleansing spirit. The Roman Church was mostly if not totally Gentile when Paul wrote to them. Paul has an affinity for Gentiles that causes your spirit to convulse in horror.

You must have a warm spot for Paul somewhere in your heart, I'm sure. Come out and say that you love Paul. Don't be shy.

False Constantinian Gentile theology that breaks Scripture and violates the Word of God.
Sorry, but I can't help you. You are drenched in false Gentile teaching.

 

[SteveB]

The word only means "massing" as in people. In Genesis it did not mean "Gentiles or "non-Hebrews.

Tell me how two Hebrew parents can birth a non-Hebrew child? It's impossible. At the time Moses wrote the Pentateuch the word "nations" did not mean "Gentiles" or "non-Hebrews. Pay attention:

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Gen. 17:4.

"Nations" here does not mean Gentiles for how can two Hebrew parents birth a non-Hebrew child? They can't. The word at this time in early Abraham family history did not mean "Gentiles." Here it is again:

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:16.

These "massing's" (or people) refer to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. Both came from Abraham. But one was with a slave woman and the other was from two Hebrew parents. Pay attention to the language:

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:16.

and

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:6.

Believing that "nations" refers to non-Hebrew Gentiles fails to understand that Sarah's "shall be of her" and Abraham's "shall come out of thee" (Abraham) refers to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. They are both the seed of Abraham and are the "nations" ("massing's of people) referred to by Moses. For again, two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah) cannot birth a non-Hebrew Gentile child. So, your interpretation that "nations" here in Genesis refers to non-Hebrew Gentiles is in error.
More study on your part in necessary.

In other words, you're finding anything you can to justify your beliefs and truth be damned.

I think we're done here.

You have nothing to validate your beliefs that Gentiles cannot be saved through faith in Jesus.

Rev 5:9 WEB They sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book and to open its seals, for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,

Rom 3:29 WEB Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn’t he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,

 

[jeremiah1five]

In other words, you're finding anything you can to justify your beliefs and truth be damned.
I think we're done here.
You have nothing to validate your beliefs that Gentiles cannot be saved through faith in Jesus.

The word "nations" in Genesis 17 means "massing" [as in people groups] according to Strong. Many Greek and Hebrew concordances such as Vine's do what is called "leading the witness", that is, they tell you how the word is to be used rather than merely giving the definition as Strong does.

You take the word "nations" to mean [non-Hebrew] Gentiles, and this is incorrect. God says that "nations" shall "come out of thee" (Abraham), and "nations" shall "be of her (Sarah.) To take "nations" to mean non-Hebrew Gentiles at this point in time Genesis was written - especially chapter 17 - means one would have to believe and accept that non-Hebrew Gentiles would have to be born from two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah), and this is impossible. In context the word "nations" means [a] "massing" (of people) when one considers that Ishmael and Esau "come from the loins of Abraham" and "shall be of her" (Sarah.)
Ishamel was born a mixed heritage Hebrew from Abraham and Hagar a slave- woman. But Esau is born from Isaac who is born of Abraham and Sarah, but Jacob is the inheritor of the Promises.

Rev 5:9 WEB They sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book and to open its seals, for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,

Rom 3:29 WEB Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn’t he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,

The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abram the Hebrew and Abram's Hebrew seed. This is Scripture Jesus says cannot be broken meaning no one can add anything to Scripture, and this includes the false belief that "non-Hebrew Gentiles" are in the Abraham Covenant, and they are not.

The "Gentiles" in the New Covenant writings refer to mixed heritage Hebrews (Jew-Gentile.) These are mixed heritage Hebrews who are still Abraham's seed although they grew up among 20 generations of Hebrew-Gentile existence since the remnant returned to the Holy Land in 522 BC. The remnant that returns to the Holy Land at that time were about 10% of the total Hebrews living in the world and mostly in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. There are approximately 15-20 generations of births and a great many of these 15-20 generations of births occurred among mixed heritage Hebrews and Gentiles who, depending on the father whether he was Hebrew or Gentile was the one who raised their children up knowing of their Hebrew heritage or not knowing their Hebrew heritage. But if these mixed heritage seed of Abraham became born again most likely they were uncircumcised because they were raised as Gentile in Gentile lands living in Greek culture. The Jews did not see these mixed heritage Hebrews as Jews but as "Gentile" in the same attitude that Samaritans who were of mixed heritage were called "Samaritan" and not "Jew." It is these conversions of mixed heritage Hebrews who were Abraham's seed but not circumcised which was the issue dealt with by the Jerusalem Church leadership in Acts 15, whether these mixed heritage Hebrews should be circumcised. They were not circumcised but the council gave them four precepts of the Law of Moses to follow. If these were non-Hebrew Gentiles, the Jerusalem Church leadership would not give them anything of the Law of Moses to follow for they knew better than to add Gentiles to the Abraham Covenant by circumcising them or giving them the four precepts of the Law of Moses to follow. They would never have done to non-Hebrew Gentiles what they decided to be done (Law of Moses) if they were purely non-Hebrew Gentile. To circumcise these non-Hebrew Gentiles or give them the Law of Moses to obey would have caused an uproar among the Judaizers and the common Hebrew/Jewish folk and the apostles would have lost all their credibility among the Hebrew/Jewish population. Every Hebrew/Jew of age would know that there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant and if the apostles made them to be circumcised or follow the Law of Moses it would not be hidden and the Jews would have run the apostles out of the city and maybe persecute them or kill them.

But the Jerusalem Council was not dealing with non-Hebrew Gentiles. They were dealing with Hebrews of mixed heritage (Jew-Gentile) descent and as mixed heritage there would be no problem circumcising them or giving them the four precepts of the Law to follow.

Your quoting of Revelation 5:9 reads:

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev. 5:8–10.

Verse 9 is supported by Galatians 4:4-5.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

And Revelation 5:10 is an Old Testament reference John is making because in the Old Testament which are the Hebrew Scripture God calls His people and apple of His eye Israel "kings" and "priests." Not only that but those that are redeemed (those under the Law meaning the Hebrews) God calls OUT OF every Gentile place He scattered His people to. It is Abraham's seed who is being called OUT OF "every kindred, tongue, and people and nation" because that's where God scattered His people and where they live: in Gentile lands.

 

[SteveB]

The word "nations" in Genesis 17 means "massing" [as in people groups] according to Strong. Many Greek and Hebrew concordances such as Vine's do what is called "leading the witness", that is, they tell you how the word is to be used rather than merely giving the definition as Strong does.

You take the word "nations" to mean [non-Hebrew] Gentiles, and this is incorrect. God says that "nations" shall "come out of thee" (Abraham), and "nations" shall "be of her (Sarah.) To take "nations" to mean non-Hebrew Gentiles at this point in time Genesis was written - especially chapter 17 - means one would have to believe and accept that non-Hebrew Gentiles would have to be born from two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah), and this is impossible. In context the word "nations" means [a] "massing" (of people) when one considers that Ishmael and Esau "come from the loins of Abraham" and "shall be of her" (Sarah.)
Ishamel was born a mixed heritage Hebrew from Abraham and Hagar a slave- woman. But Esau is born from Isaac who is born of Abraham and Sarah, but Jacob is the inheritor of the Promises.

The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abram the Hebrew and Abram's Hebrew seed. This is Scripture Jesus says cannot be broken meaning no one can add anything to Scripture, and this includes the false belief that "non-Hebrew Gentiles" are in the Abraham Covenant, and they are not.

The "Gentiles" in the New Covenant writings refer to mixed heritage Hebrews (Jew-Gentile.) These are mixed heritage Hebrews who are still Abraham's seed although they grew up among 20 generations of Hebrew-Gentile existence since the remnant returned to the Holy Land in 522 BC. The remnant that returns to the Holy Land at that time were about 10% of the total Hebrews living in the world and mostly in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. There are approximately 15-20 generations of births and a great many of these 15-20 generations of births occurred among mixed heritage Hebrews and Gentiles who, depending on the father whether he was Hebrew or Gentile was the one who raised their children up knowing of their Hebrew heritage or not knowing their Hebrew heritage. But if these mixed heritage seed of Abraham became born again most likely they were uncircumcised because they were raised as Gentile in Gentile lands living in Greek culture. The Jews did not see these mixed heritage Hebrews as Jews but as "Gentile" in the same attitude that Samaritans who were of mixed heritage were called "Samaritan" and not "Jew." It is these conversions of mixed heritage Hebrews who were Abraham's seed but not circumcised which was the issue dealt with by the Jerusalem Church leadership in Acts 15, whether these mixed heritage Hebrews should be circumcised. They were not circumcised but the council gave them four precepts of the Law of Moses to follow. If these were non-Hebrew Gentiles, the Jerusalem Church leadership would not give them anything of the Law of Moses to follow for they knew better than to add Gentiles to the Abraham Covenant by circumcising them or giving them the four precepts of the Law of Moses to follow. They would never have done to non-Hebrew Gentiles what they decided to be done (Law of Moses) if they were purely non-Hebrew Gentile. To circumcise these non-Hebrew Gentiles or give them the Law of Moses to obey would have caused an uproar among the Judaizers and the common Hebrew/Jewish folk and the apostles would have lost all their credibility among the Hebrew/Jewish population. Every Hebrew/Jew of age would know that there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant and if the apostles made them to be circumcised or follow the Law of Moses it would not be hidden and the Jews would have run the apostles out of the city and maybe persecute them or kill them.

But the Jerusalem Council was not dealing with non-Hebrew Gentiles. They were dealing with Hebrews of mixed heritage (Jew-Gentile) descent and as mixed heritage there would be no problem circumcising them or giving them the four precepts of the Law to follow.

Your quoting of Revelation 5:9 reads:

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev. 5:8–10.

Verse 9 is supported by Galatians 4:4-5.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

And Revelation 5:10 is an Old Testament reference John is making because in the Old Testament which are the Hebrew Scripture God calls His people and apple of His eye Israel "kings" and "priests." Not only that but those that are redeemed (those under the Law meaning the Hebrews) God calls OUT OF every Gentile place He scattered His people to. It is Abraham's seed who is being called OUT OF "every kindred, tongue, and people and nation" because that's where God scattered His people and where they live: in Gentile lands.

Still desperate to send Gentiles to the lake of fire are you?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Still desperate to send Gentiles to the lake of fire are you?

I see you avoid my questions.
Typical of all who lose an argument.

 

[SteveB]

I see you avoid my questions.
Typical of all who lose an argument.

You clearly missed the memo.
I'm not here to win arguments.
Especially with people who claim to love YHVH and his Word.
I'm here to encourage, bless, strengthen and assist to grow in the grace and knowledge of YHVH.

But, if all you care about is being king of your tiny sandbox, you won a long time ago.

The curious thing is....
David describes for us the kind of man who will dwell on God's Holy Hill.
I can't find anything about Jew or gentile in the description.

Psa 15:1-5 WEB 1 Yahweh, who shall dwell in your sanctuary? Who shall live on your holy hill? 2 He who walks blamelessly and does what is right, and speaks truth in his heart; 3 he who doesn’t slander with his tongue, nor does evil to his friend, nor casts slurs against his fellow man; 4 in whose eyes a vile man is despised, but who honors those who fear Yahweh; he who keeps an oath even when it hurts, and doesn’t change; 5 he who doesn’t lend out his money for usury, nor take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be shaken.

But, you're obviously convinced that we gentiles are fit for nothing but the fires of hell, so perhaps you can show me where David shows Jewish in this psalm.

 

[TomL]

But God NEVER gave His love to uncircumcised, non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles. The instruction of love was given by God through Moses to the twelve tribes of Israel in the desert when they were camped around the Tabernacle. God NEVER gave His love to non-Hebrew Gentiles. It's a Gentile lie you believe in. I'd say, get your doctrine in order. Your heresy is showing.

Incredible

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You clearly missed the memo.
I'm not here to win arguments.
Especially with people who claim to love YHVH and his Word.
I'm here to encourage, bless, strengthen and assist to grow in the grace and knowledge of YHVH.

If you make a statement which Scripture contradicts then you must bring your theology into compliance with Scripture or you're just another false teacher without biblical support.
The Holy Spirit of Truth does not use error or lies about God to "encourage, bless, strengthen, or assist to grow." He uses Truth. So, when you say a wrong thing about the one true God you're expected to support what you say with Scripture - but not with Scripture and then erroneously interpret it to bring out a lie - such as the belief that non-Hebrew Gentiles are born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise when the Holy Spirit of Promise is PROMISED TO ISRAEL and there is no Scripture that says He is promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles or "nations" of Gentiles.

But, if all you care about is being king of your tiny sandbox, you won a long time ago.

The curious thing is....
David describes for us the kind of man who will dwell on God's Holy Hill.
I can't find anything about Jew or gentile in the description.

That's your problem. You look at the Hebrew Scripture with a false Gentile eyesight thinking everything God gave to the Hebrew people is also given to Gentiles when God is a God of Covenant and He has no covenant with Gentiles.
The context of the Psalms is that they are written by Hebrews to and for other Hebrews in the Great Congregation of Hebrews that are so named by God as His covenant people. NONE of the prophets or Moses wrote to Gentiles. None of the Law is written to Gentiles. Every opening of the Pentateuch is written to Israel.

The Pentateuch, also known as the Torah, is the first five books of the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament. These books are attributed to Moses and form the foundation of Jewish and Christian theology.

Genesis: The creation of the world, the origin of humanity, the fall of humanity, and the early history of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God is presented as the creator and sustainer of the universe. He chooses Abraham and his descendants, the Israelites, to be His special people.​

Exodus: The enslavement of the Israelites in Egypt, their deliverance through Moses and the Ten Commandments, and the journey to the Promised Land. God reveals Himself as a powerful and compassionate deity who rescues His people from oppression. He establishes the Israelites as His chosen people and gives them the Law.​

Leviticus: The laws governing the Israelites' relationship with God, including sacrifices, festivals, and purity rituals. God is portrayed as a holy and righteous God who demands obedience to His laws. The Israelites are instructed on how to live a life pleasing to God.​

Numbers: The journey of the Israelites through the wilderness, including the census of the people, the rebellion of the Israelites, and the appointment of leaders. God continues to guide and protect the Israelites, but He also tests their faith and punishes their disobedience.​

​

Deuteronomy: Moses' final speeches to the Israelites, summarizing the laws and blessings of the covenant. God reaffirms His covenant with the Israelites and warns them of the consequences of disobedience. Moses encourages the Israelites to love God and keep His commandments.​

These "books" set the stage for the rest of the Tanakh, the Hebrew acronym for the three main divisions of the Hebrew Bible. It consists of:
Torah: The first five books of the Bible, also known as the Pentateuch.

Nevi'im:The Prophets, including the Former Prophets (Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings), the Latter Prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the Twelve Minor Prophets), and the Writings (Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther).

Ketuvim: The Writings, also known as the Hagiographa. This includes books like Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Chronicles, and Esther.
Together, these three divisions form the complete Hebrew Bible, which is considered the sacred text of Judaism.

As I said before and cannot be disputed there is no Scripture of God making any kind of salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.
The Hebrew Scripture sets the stage for God to send His Son to die for the children of Israel according to Scripture and the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation records the New Covenant era Israel finds herself in after the ascension of their Lord and King back to the Father and the sending of the Holy Spirit of Promise to seal the deal with the children of Israel and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Salvation is of the Jews.
Remember that.

Psa 15:1-5 WEB 1 Yahweh, who shall dwell in your sanctuary? Who shall live on your holy hill? 2 He who walks blamelessly and does what is right, and speaks truth in his heart; 3 he who doesn’t slander with his tongue, nor does evil to his friend, nor casts slurs against his fellow man; 4 in whose eyes a vile man is despised, but who honors those who fear Yahweh; he who keeps an oath even when it hurts, and doesn’t change; 5 he who doesn’t lend out his money for usury, nor take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be shaken.

But, you're obviously convinced that we gentiles are fit for nothing but the fires of hell, so perhaps you can show me where David shows Jewish in this psalm.

David is from the tribe of Judah from where the term "Jewish" derives. It is also used to identify in general all of Israelites in covenant with God.
God saves through covenant and God has no covenant with Gentiles thus indicating that Gentiles will not be saved.
Salvation is of the Jews.
Remember that and stop trying to add Gentiles into the narrative when Gentiles got nothing coming to them of God except judgment and eternal separation from God.
Every true, biblical Christian who is of the seed of Abraham should know this. But alas, Gentiles have stolen everything God gave to Israel and made it all fit their narrative that Gentiles are the "Church" and the "Bride" and "Chosen" people of God when all that garbage is untrue. And you have fallen for the lies.

 

[synergy]

As I said before and cannot be disputed there is no Scripture of God making any kind of salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.

That's because the Ethnic Cleansing Standard Edition Bible you're using has ripped out all verses that have recorded the Holy Spirit being poured onto the Gentiles and Paul justifying to he inclusion of Gentiles into the New Covenant. You should think about changing your Bible to something like the NKJV and then you'll be able to exorcise your Ethnic Cleansing spirit away.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That's because the Ethnic Cleansing Standard Edition Bible you're using has ripped out all verses that have recorded the Holy Spirit being poured onto the Gentiles and Paul justifying to he inclusion of Gentiles into the New Covenant. You should think about changing your Bible to something like the NKJV and then you'll be able to exorcise your Ethnic Cleansing spirit away.

Show me in the Hebrew Scripture a passage in which God promises His Spirit to be poured out on Gentiles.
Because I can show you in the Hebrew Scripture God's promise to pour out His Spirit specifically upon Israel.
Go on, post it.

 

[synergy]

Show me in the Hebrew Scripture a passage in which God promises His Spirit to be poured out on Gentiles.
Because I can show you in the Hebrew Scripture God's promise to pour out His Spirit specifically upon Israel.
Go on, post it.

You conveniently skipped over all the verses that speak of the Holy Spirit being poured onto the Gentiles and Paul justifying to he inclusion of Gentiles into the New Covenant. That's because your Ethnic Cleansing Standard Edition Bible has ripped out all those verses. You should think about changing your Bible to something like the NKJV and then you'll be able to exorcise your Ethnic Cleansing spirit away

 

[jeremiah1five]

You conveniently skipped over all the verses that speak of the Holy Spirit being poured onto the Gentiles and Paul justifying to he inclusion of Gentiles into the New Covenant. That's because your Ethnic Cleansing Standard Edition Bible has ripped out all those verses. You should think about changing your Bible to something like the NKJV and then you'll be able to exorcise your Ethnic Cleansing spirit away

No, I haven't. That's YOUR interpretation because I know for a fact God NEVER promised His Holy Spirit upon non-Hebrew Gentiles. He promised to pour out His Spirit upon ALL Hebrew flesh because the context is Joel addressing Israel. It's just your error to believe God has wrote to Gentiles but every book in the Old Testament is written by a prophet God sent to Israel to prophesy against and for Israel.
That's your heresy. You think God is addressing His Word to non-Hebrews and He doesn't do that. Every 'book' from Genesis to Revelation is written to the Hebrew people. ALL the prophets are Hebrew prophets. All their prophesying is to and for Israel.
When you come to the knowledge of these truths then maybe you will begin to see as God sees and accept that God has no salvation covenant with non-Hebrews as He has salvation covenant with Abraham and his seed.

 

[synergy]

No, I haven't. That's YOUR interpretation because I know for a fact God NEVER promised His Holy Spirit upon non-Hebrew Gentiles. He promised to pour out His Spirit upon ALL Hebrew flesh because the context is Joel addressing Israel. It's just your error to believe God has wrote to Gentiles but every book in the Old Testament is written by a prophet God sent to Israel to prophesy against and for Israel.
That's your heresy. You think God is addressing His Word to non-Hebrews and He doesn't do that. Every 'book' from Genesis to Revelation is written to the Hebrew people. ALL the prophets are Hebrew prophets. All their prophesying is to and for Israel.
When you come to the knowledge of these truths then maybe you will begin to see as God sees and accept that God has no salvation covenant with non-Hebrews as He has salvation covenant with Abraham and his seed.

Read 10:44-48 where the Holy Spirit was poured out to the Gentiles. It's time for your Ethnic Cleansing spirit to be exorcised.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Read 10:44-48 where the Holy Spirit was poured out to the Gentiles. It's time for your Ethnic Cleansing spirit to be exorcised.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Half-Jew/half-Gentile mixed heritage Hebrews like Samaritans were not called "Jews" but Samaritans who were the offspring between mostly Jew and Assyrian. The same prejudice occurs towards mixed heritage Hebrews who are not mixed with Assyrians but Gentiles from all over the Roman Empire and beyond. They are not called Jew but Gentile because for about 15-20 generations of Hebrews who didn't return with the remnant but remained in Gentile lands where they lived and grew up as Gentile influenced heavily by Greek culture lost their Hebrew identity - weren't even circumcised - or knew anything about their Hebrew heritage were called "Gentile" and not Jew.

It was these "Gentiles" that the Judaizers wanted to circumcise once they became born-again (being still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise) and the reason why the Jerusalem Council was held to address whether they should be circumcised due to the covenantal progression of the Abraham ---> Mosaic ---> New ---> Covenant series in Israel's history. One major clue they were of mixed heritage was that NO JEW - Christian or otherwise - would EVER place upon non-Hebrew Gentiles those four precepts of the Law: "That [they] abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well." Acts 15:29.
Jews would be in an uproar if this sect called the Way led by Jews were to cause non-Hebrew Gentiles to be under these four precepts of the Law. It just doesn't happen and if these were non-Hebrew Gentiles all Jewry would be up in arms and Jewish Christianity would be attacked and suffer the consequences from Jews everywhere and the character of New Covenant Jewish Christianity would be an outcast "religion."

Where "Gentiles" are mentioned in the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation are mixed heritage Hebrews who have lost all pretenses of Hebrew culture and religion yet were still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise (of God.)

 

[synergy]

Half-Jew/half-Gentile mixed heritage Hebrews like Samaritans were not called "Jews" but Samaritans who were the offspring between mostly Jew and Assyrian. The same prejudice occurs towards mixed heritage Hebrews who are not mixed with Assyrians but Gentiles from all over the Roman Empire and beyond. They are not called Jew but Gentile because for about 15-20 generations of Hebrews who didn't return with the remnant but remained in Gentile lands where they lived and grew up as Gentile influenced heavily by Greek culture lost their Hebrew identity - weren't even circumcised - or knew anything about their Hebrew heritage were called "Gentile" and not Jew.

It was these "Gentiles" that the Judaizers wanted to circumcise once they became born-again (being still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise) and the reason why the Jerusalem Council was held to address whether they should be circumcised due to the covenantal progression of the Abraham ---> Mosaic ---> New ---> Covenant series in Israel's history. One major clue they were of mixed heritage was that NO JEW - Christian or otherwise - would EVER place upon non-Hebrew Gentiles those four precepts of the Law: "That [they] abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well." Acts 15:29.
Jews would be in an uproar if this sect called the Way led by Jews were to cause non-Hebrew Gentiles to be under these four precepts of the Law. It just doesn't happen and if these were non-Hebrew Gentiles all Jewry would be up in arms and Jewish Christianity would be attacked and suffer the consequences from Jews everywhere and the character of New Covenant Jewish Christianity would be an outcast "religion."

Where "Gentiles" are mentioned in the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation are mixed heritage Hebrews who have lost all pretenses of Hebrew culture and religion yet were still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise (of God.)

So Acts 10:44-48 proves that Gentiles have received the Holy Spirit which totally destroys the Ethnic Cleansing aspirations of your Judaizing Spirit. You can now toss that Judaizing Spirit out the window.

 

[SteveB]

If you make a statement which Scripture contradicts then you must bring your theology into compliance with Scripture or you're just another false teacher without biblical support.

It's ironic that you demand everyone do that, while you refuse to.
I'll stick with Jesus saves the whole world.... gentiles included.
thank you for giving hypocritical advice.
It's always good to see false teaching abound in your writing.

The Holy Spirit of Truth does not use error or lies about God to "encourage, bless, strengthen, or assist to grow." He uses Truth.

which begs the question of why you're so desperate to exclude Gentiles from enjoying the Grace of God through Jesus Christ.

So, when you say a wrong thing about the one true God you're expected to support what you say with Scripture - but not with Scripture and then erroneously interpret it to bring out a lie - such as the belief that non-Hebrew Gentiles are born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise when the Holy Spirit of Promise is PROMISED TO ISRAEL and there is no Scripture that says He is promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles or "nations" of Gentiles.

demonstrating your inability to understand what you're reading.
reminds me of the parable of the tiger and donkey.

Fable: DON'T ARGUE WITH DONKEYS
The donkey said to the tiger:
- "The grass is blue."
The tiger replied:
- "No, the grass is green."
The discussion heated up, and the two decided to submit him to arbitration, and for 5 went before the lion, the King of the Jungle.
Already before reaching the forest clearing, where the lion was sitting on his throne, the donkey began to shout:
- "His Highness, is it true that the grass is blue?".
The lion replied:
- "True, the grass is blue."
The donkey hurried and continued:
- "The tiger disagrees with me and contradicts and annoys me, please punish him."
The king then declared:
- "The tiger will be punished with 5 years of silence."
The donkey jumped cheerfully and went on his way, content and repeating:
- "The Grass Is Blue"...
The tiger accepted his punishment, but before he asked the lion:
- "Your Majesty, why have you punished me?, after all, the grass is green."
The lion replied:
- "In fact, the grass is green."
The tiger asked:
- "So why are you punishing me?".
The lion replied:
- "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green.
The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave and intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that come and bother me with that question."
The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who does not care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on arguments that don't make sense...
There are people who, no matter how much evidence and evidence we present to them, are not in the capacity to understand, and others are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and all they want is to be right even if they are not.
When ignorance screams, intelligence is silent. Your peace and quietness are worth more.

That's your problem. You look at the Hebrew Scripture with a false Gentile eyesight thinking everything God gave to the Hebrew people is also given to Gentiles when God is a God of Covenant and He has no covenant with Gentiles.
The context of the Psalms is that they are written by Hebrews to and for other Hebrews in the Great Congregation of Hebrews that are so named by God as His covenant people. NONE of the prophets or Moses wrote to Gentiles. None of the Law is written to Gentiles. Every opening of the Pentateuch is written to Israel.

The Pentateuch, also known as the Torah, is the first five books of the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament. These books are attributed to Moses and form the foundation of Jewish and Christian theology.

Genesis: The creation of the world, the origin of humanity, the fall of humanity, and the early history of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God is presented as the creator and sustainer of the universe. He chooses Abraham and his descendants, the Israelites, to be His special people.​

Exodus: The enslavement of the Israelites in Egypt, their deliverance through Moses and the Ten Commandments, and the journey to the Promised Land. God reveals Himself as a powerful and compassionate deity who rescues His people from oppression. He establishes the Israelites as His chosen people and gives them the Law.​

Leviticus: The laws governing the Israelites' relationship with God, including sacrifices, festivals, and purity rituals. God is portrayed as a holy and righteous God who demands obedience to His laws. The Israelites are instructed on how to live a life pleasing to God.​

Numbers: The journey of the Israelites through the wilderness, including the census of the people, the rebellion of the Israelites, and the appointment of leaders. God continues to guide and protect the Israelites, but He also tests their faith and punishes their disobedience.​

​

Deuteronomy: Moses' final speeches to the Israelites, summarizing the laws and blessings of the covenant. God reaffirms His covenant with the Israelites and warns them of the consequences of disobedience. Moses encourages the Israelites to love God and keep His commandments.​

These "books" set the stage for the rest of the Tanakh, the Hebrew acronym for the three main divisions of the Hebrew Bible. It consists of:
Torah: The first five books of the Bible, also known as the Pentateuch.

Nevi'im:The Prophets, including the Former Prophets (Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings), the Latter Prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the Twelve Minor Prophets), and the Writings (Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther).

Ketuvim: The Writings, also known as the Hagiographa. This includes books like Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Chronicles, and Esther.
Together, these three divisions form the complete Hebrew Bible, which is considered the sacred text of Judaism.

As I said before and cannot be disputed there is no Scripture of God making any kind of salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE.
The Hebrew Scripture sets the stage for God to send His Son to die for the children of Israel according to Scripture and the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation records the New Covenant era Israel finds herself in after the ascension of their Lord and King back to the Father and the sending of the Holy Spirit of Promise to seal the deal with the children of Israel and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Salvation is of the Jews.
Remember that.

David is from the tribe of Judah from where the term "Jewish" derives. It is also used to identify in general all of Israelites in covenant with God.
God saves through covenant and God has no covenant with Gentiles thus indicating that Gentiles will not be saved.
Salvation is of the Jews.
Remember that and stop trying to add Gentiles into the narrative when Gentiles got nothing coming to them of God except judgment and eternal separation from God.
Every true, biblical Christian who is of the seed of Abraham should know this. But alas, Gentiles have stolen everything God gave to Israel and made it all fit their narrative that Gentiles are the "Church" and the "Bride" and "Chosen" people of God when all that garbage is untrue. And you have fallen for the lies.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So Acts 10:44-48 proves that Gentiles have received the Holy Spirit which totally destroys the Ethnic Cleansing aspirations of your Judaizing Spirit. You can now toss that Judaizing Spirit out the window.

Jews saw mixed heritage Hebrews who grew up in Gentile land heavily influenced by Greek culture they weren't even circumcised as "Gentiles" the same way Jews saw the mixed heritage Hebrews of Assyrian descent after Israel's conquest and the subsequent exile as Samaritans and not as Jews. In other words God made promise to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh of Israel and that's what He did on Pentecost when to begin Christ's Church three thousand Jews were born-again and Christ added thousands to His Church daily such as should be saved (Acts 2:47), and such as should be saved are Jews since they are in covenant with God and Gentiles are not. So, the giving of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL was evidenced in three thousand Jews being born-again and thousands of Jews also being born again after that it is clear that God promised His Spirit to Abraham's seed and non-Hebrew Gentiles are NOT Abraham's seed, so these "Gentiles" in the New Covenant writings are truly mixed heritage Hebrews because God would not promise His Spirit to His covenant people Israel, lie, and then begin giving His Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL to uncircumcised, unclean, non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles.
I'd say you need to take God's Word as written and stop with adding to the bible things not written there. You cannot provide me any proof in the Hebrew Scripture that God's Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL was also promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles. So, if it's not chapter and verse then your false adding-to-the-bible interpretations are chatter and worse.

 

[synergy]

Jews saw mixed heritage Hebrews who grew up in Gentile land heavily influenced by Greek culture they weren't even circumcised as "Gentiles" the same way Jews saw the mixed heritage Hebrews of Assyrian descent after Israel's conquest and the subsequent exile as Samaritans and not as Jews. In other words God made promise to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh of Israel and that's what He did on Pentecost when to begin Christ's Church three thousand Jews were born-again and Christ added thousands to His Church daily such as should be saved (Acts 2:47), and such as should be saved are Jews since they are in covenant with God and Gentiles are not. So, the giving of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL was evidenced in three thousand Jews being born-again and thousands of Jews also being born again after that it is clear that God promised His Spirit to Abraham's seed and non-Hebrew Gentiles are NOT Abraham's seed, so these "Gentiles" in the New Covenant writings are truly mixed heritage Hebrews because God would not promise His Spirit to His covenant people Israel, lie, and then begin giving His Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL to uncircumcised, unclean, non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles.
I'd say you need to take God's Word as written and stop with adding to the bible things not written there. You cannot provide me any proof in the Hebrew Scripture that God's Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL was also promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles. So, if it's not chapter and verse then your false adding-to-the-bible interpretations are chatter and worse.

I do take the word of God as written. If the Bible says that the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles then by all means I do believe it. Thus you can toss your Ethnic Cleansing spirit out the window.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

It's ironic that you demand everyone do that, while you refuse to.
I'll stick with Jesus saves the whole world.... gentiles included.

Then you hold to the theology that Scripture can be broken and violated.
In other words, you hold to interpretations of New Testament statements by the letter writers like Saul and Peter and believe adding to the bible things that are not written in the Old Testament is OK.
Let me clue you in on something that is foundational to exegesis and biblical hermeneutics, and that is, if it's not found in the Old Testament then there is no New Testament reality. Case in point is that God saves through covenant.
God has three covenants which are progressive towards setting up a system for the salvation of thiose under God's Law meaning the children of Israel, and that the animal sacrifice under the Law which atoned yearly (Passover) for the sins of the children of Israel and the fact that Jesus, as substitute for the animal sacrificed under the Law died on a cross on Passover to atone finally and eternally for the sins of the children of Israel thus fulfilling the Law. Not only that but you like to ignore Scripture that contradicts your interpretations, one of them being that Saul said that Christ died to redeem those under the Law explicitly saying nothing about the salvation of a people NOT under the Law of Moses, such as non-Hebrew Gentiles and another case being that God does save by covenant and that there is no passage in the Hebrew Scripture of God ever having a salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles as He has salvation covenant with the children of Israel but that doesn't matter to you. You rather add to the bible things not written there by Moses of the prophets and arbitrarily add non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Hebrew Covenants.
Basically, you do these things that false churches out there in the world like Mormons and JW's do and that is add to the bible and coming up with your own flawed heretical teachings that are definitely contrary to Scripture.
True, born-again biblical Christians don't do that.
Rather, true, born-again Christians take out from the bible what is written there for their instruction and commands from God and do not add to the bible things not there.
I'm about to leave this conversation because I'd rather interact with true Christians that love God and His Word and do not disobey God and do things He says we should not do.

thank you for giving hypocritical advice.
It's always good to see false teaching abound in your writing.
which begs the question of why you're so desperate to exclude Gentiles from enjoying the Grace of God through Jesus Christ.

There is no covenant in Scripture that proves God has covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. Therefore, non-Hebrew Gentiles are not atoned by the death of Jesus Christ.

God's Word says ONLY those under the Law of Moses are atoned and their sins forgiven as prophesied by Jeremiah 31:31-34 and proved by Galatians 4:4-5.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour (member of any other tribe), and every man his brother (member of the same tribe), saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

This New Covenant of salvation [which] is of the Jews DOES NOT INCLUDE NON-HEBREW GENTILES.

I say the same thing as the bible and repeat the Word of God that the New Covenant does not mention non-Hebrew Gentiles and thus, non-Hebrew Gentiles are not and never and never will bve saved. If you want to call me a false teacher your accusation is the lie, not me.

demonstrating your inability to understand what you're reading.
reminds me of the parable of the tiger and donkey.

Fable: DON'T ARGUE WITH DONKEYS
The donkey said to the tiger:
- "The grass is blue."
The tiger replied:
- "No, the grass is green."
The discussion heated up, and the two decided to submit him to arbitration, and for 5 went before the lion, the King of the Jungle.
Already before reaching the forest clearing, where the lion was sitting on his throne, the donkey began to shout:
- "His Highness, is it true that the grass is blue?".
The lion replied:
- "True, the grass is blue."
The donkey hurried and continued:
- "The tiger disagrees with me and contradicts and annoys me, please punish him."
The king then declared:
- "The tiger will be punished with 5 years of silence."
The donkey jumped cheerfully and went on his way, content and repeating:
- "The Grass Is Blue"...
The tiger accepted his punishment, but before he asked the lion:
- "Your Majesty, why have you punished me?, after all, the grass is green."
The lion replied:
- "In fact, the grass is green."
The tiger asked:
- "So why are you punishing me?".
The lion replied:
- "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green.
The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave and intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that come and bother me with that question."
The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who does not care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on arguments that don't make sense...
There are people who, no matter how much evidence and evidence we present to them, are not in the capacity to understand, and others are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and all they want is to be right even if they are not.
When ignorance screams, intelligence is silent. Your peace and quietness are worth more.

4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 9:4–5.

These are the elements of salvation, and the non-Hebrew Gentiles do not possess any of these elements for salvation, thus I agree with the Scripture that non-Hebrew Gentiles are not the true children of Israel and of God and do not have salvation offered to them of God. As Jesus said:

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15:23–24.

and as Saul confirmed:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

The Word of God says that the Son of God came to redeem those who are under the Law of God. There is no redemption offered to non-Hebrew Gentiles.

This is the Word of God, and you reject it.

 

[SteveB]

Then you hold to the theology that Scripture can be broken and violated.

Nope.
I simply read ALL scripture.
all 31,102 verses, in all 39 books of the law, writings and prophets in the Hebrew Scripture, and all 27 books of the new testament.
something you apparently lack the wherewithal of learning.

In other words, you hold to interpretations of New Testament statements by the letter writers like Saul and Peter and believe adding to the bible things that are not written in the Old Testament is OK.

curious thing about Saul.
he died. Paul was raised in Christ, in place of Saul.
you're more than welcome to continue to remain stuck on a dead guy. But the guy i focus on has been raised from the dead in Christ, and he's pretty clear that Gentiles are welcome into the Kingdom of God in Christ.

Let me clue you in on something that is foundational to exegesis and biblical hermeneutics, and that is, if it's not found in the Old Testament then there is no New Testament reality.

exactly!
which is exactly why I find it so curious that you're consigning Gentiles to the lake of fire when the law and prophets welcome Gentiles into the Kingdom of God.

Case in point is that God saves through covenant.

Yep.
the covenant i as a Gentile am welcomed by is the blood of Jesus.

God has three covenants which are progressive towards setting up a system for the salvation of thiose under God's Law meaning the children of Israel, and that the animal sacrifice under the Law which atoned yearly (Passover) for the sins of the children of Israel and the fact that Jesus, as substitute for the animal sacrificed under the Law died on a cross on Passover to atone finally and eternally for the sins of the children of Israel thus fulfilling the Law.

Pity you've ignored the covenant YHVH made with Abraham.
it's plainly stated that all the families of the earth will be blessed in his seed.
as I'm a member of one of those families of the earth, I'm enjoying peace with YHVH through the seed of Abraham, Jesus.

Not only that but you like to ignore Scripture that contradicts your interpretations,

nope.
that'd be you.
and as it's further written,

Tit 3:9-11 WEB 9 but shun foolish questionings, genealogies, strife, and disputes about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 Avoid a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a one is perverted and sinful, being self-condemned.

I'm looking at this and recognizing a simple fact....
You've been repeatedly given numerous warnings, but refuse to learn anything, making you a factious, argumentative, perverted, self-condemned individual.
I'm satisfied that we're done.
you keep choosing your madness.
even Paul describes this dynamic to Timothy.

2Ti 3:7 WEB always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

one of them being that Saul said that Christ died to redeem those under the Law explicitly saying nothing about the salvation of a people NOT under the Law of Moses, such as non-Hebrew Gentiles and another case being that God does save by covenant and that there is no passage in the Hebrew Scripture of God ever having a salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles as He has salvation covenant with the children of Israel but that doesn't matter to you. You rather add to the bible things not written there by Moses of the prophets and arbitrarily add non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Hebrew Covenants.
Basically, you do these things that false churches out there in the world like Mormons and JW's do and that is add to the bible and coming up with your own flawed heretical teachings that are definitely contrary to Scripture.
True, born-again biblical Christians don't do that.
Rather, true, born-again Christians take out from the bible what is written there for their instruction and commands from God and do not add to the bible things not there.
I'm about to leave this conversation because I'd rather interact with true Christians that love God and His Word and do not disobey God and do things He says we should not do.

There is no covenant in Scripture that proves God has covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. Therefore, non-Hebrew Gentiles are not atoned by the death of Jesus Christ.

God's Word says ONLY those under the Law of Moses are atoned and their sins forgiven as prophesied by Jeremiah 31:31-34 and proved by Galatians 4:4-5.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour (member of any other tribe), and every man his brother (member of the same tribe), saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

This New Covenant of salvation [which] is of the Jews DOES NOT INCLUDE NON-HEBREW GENTILES.

I say the same thing as the bible and repeat the Word of God that the New Covenant does not mention non-Hebrew Gentiles and thus, non-Hebrew Gentiles are not and never and never will bve saved. If you want to call me a false teacher your accusation is the lie, not me.

4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 9:4–5.

These are the elements of salvation, and the non-Hebrew Gentiles do not possess any of these elements for salvation, thus I agree with the Scripture that non-Hebrew Gentiles are not the true children of Israel and of God and do not have salvation offered to them of God. As Jesus said:

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15:23–24.

and as Saul confirmed:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

The Word of God says that the Son of God came to redeem those who are under the Law of God. There is no redemption offered to non-Hebrew Gentiles.

This is the Word of God, and you reject it.

May YHVH's Word, Grace, Spirit and Love bring you to full repentance.

We're done here.