The Importance of The Law of Moses

[jeremiah1five]

Well, it sure is a good thing then that i wasn't around back then. Were you? You're talking about a period 1100 years after the beginning of the church.

No, I'm talking about a non-Hebrew Gentile "church" that developed almost immediately after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple around 70AD.

since the church began in Jerusalem 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus, and Jesus chose an highly educated Jewish rabbi to preach to gentiles, I'd say you need help.

The true, biblical Church that Christ Promised to build began on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest around 32AD when three thousand Jews were born again and thousands more each day became born again and this continued every day for the next four decades before Gentiles destroyed the Jewish Temple, killed Jews, and scattered the rest into the four corners of the earth.
Saul was sent to preach to the Jews, and then he went to Hebrews of mixed heritage living in Gentile lands influenced by Greek culture. They were Hellenized Jews who lost their heritage, their culture, and knew nothing about the Jewish religion until messengers like Saul, Priscilla, Apollos, and James and John testified about their Redeemer had come and Abraham's blessings were being poured out upon them in the Person of the Holy Spirit. The whole issue before the Jerusalem Council was whether or not to circumcise these Hellenized Jews who became born again and were of Abraham's seed mixed in with Gentiles. In the end of that council the Jews gave these mixed heritage Hebrews several instructions from the Law of Moses to obey: "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication" Acts 15:29.

These mixed heritage Jew-Gentile Hellenized Hebrews were given four instructions from the Law of Moses thus proving these were not non-Hebrew Gentiles for the Jewish leadership would NEVER give non-Hebrew Gentiles parts of the Law of Moses to obey.

Everywhere in the New Covenant writings where "Gentiles" are mentioned refers to mixed heritage Hebrews who grew up in Gentile lands for several generations who were greatly influenced by Greek culture, hence the word "Hellenized." God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles and no non-Hebrew Gentiles ever received the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL.

And?
I'm not, nor have I ever been a Lutheran.

You don't have to be Lutheran. That came later.

and?
is that supposed to be my fault?
And? Does that make it my fault?
You're not helping yourself here.
Yes, as a matter of fact YHVH is love.

But God NEVER gave His love to uncircumcised, non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles. The instruction of love was given by God through Moses to the twelve tribes of Israel in the desert when they were camped around the Tabernacle. God NEVER gave His love to non-Hebrew Gentiles. It's a Gentile lie you believe in. I'd say, get your doctrine in order. Your heresy is showing.

Nothing you're posting on has any coherence.

Why are you carrying on about this?
You've made it clear that no Gentiles can be saved, so talking to Gentiles is wasting your time.

In order to be saved and born again requires the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL.
Did you know that? So, if the Holy Spirit of Promise was Promised to Israel and ONLY Israel, then where is all this garbage of non-Hebrew Gentiles becoming saved and filled with the Holy Spirit? He wasn't promised to Gentiles. So, what spirit is really inhabiting Gentiles? Not the Holy Spirit of God for He was never promised to Gentiles.
Did you not know that God's Spirit was promised only to Israel?

 

[SteveB]

No, I'm talking about a non-Hebrew Gentile "church" that developed almost immediately after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple around 70AD.

I've got news for you.
The first gentile was invited by the Holy Spirit in Acts 10. Cornelius and his family.
Paul was beheaded in the mid 60's and all of his letters were finished and distributed before his death. So, thousands of Gentiles were part of the church by the time he died.
As such, the destruction of the Temple was a judgment of God on the people of Israel, and had nothing to do with Gentiles becoming part of the body of Christ.

The true, biblical Church that Christ Promised to build began on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest around 32AD when three thousand Jews were born again and thousands more each day became born again and this continued every day for the next four decades before Gentiles destroyed the Jewish Temple, killed Jews, and scattered the rest into the four corners of the earth.

I've got news for you....
whoever remained in Jerusalem during the destruction of the temple was slaughtered by Romans. Approximately 1000 Jewish people traveled to Masada, and hid out there until Vespasian and Titus came to ransack it. 990 jews were killed by 10 Jewish men, to prevent them from being enslaved and thrn those 10 picked one man to kill the other 9, and then he killed himself.

Gentile Jesus followers had absolutely nothing to do with that.

Saul was sent to preach to the Jews, and then he went to Hebrews of mixed heritage living in Gentile lands influenced by Greek culture. They were Hellenized Jews who lost their heritage, their culture, and knew nothing about the Jewish religion until messengers like Saul, Priscilla, Apollos, and James and John testified about their Redeemer had come and Abraham's blessings were being poured out upon them in the Person of the Holy Spirit. The whole issue before the Jerusalem Council was whether or not to circumcise these Hellenized Jews who became born again and were of Abraham's seed mixed in with Gentiles. In the end of that council the Jews gave these mixed heritage Hebrews several instructions from the Law of Moses to obey: "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication" Acts 15:29.

Gentiles were included in Paul’s entourage to Jerusalem.

These mixed heritage Jew-Gentile Hellenized Hebrews were given four instructions from the Law of Moses thus proving these were not non-Hebrew Gentiles for the Jewish leadership would NEVER give non-Hebrew Gentiles parts of the Law of Moses to obey.
Everywhere in the New Covenant writings where "Gentiles" are mentioned refers to mixed heritage Hebrews who grew up in Gentile lands for several generations who were greatly influenced by Greek culture, hence the word "Hellenized." God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles and no non-Hebrew Gentiles ever received the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL.

You don't have to be Lutheran. That came later.

yet you're claiming that Martin Luther was a problem.

But God NEVER gave His love to uncircumcised, non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles. The instruction of love was given by God through Moses to the twelve tribes of Israel in the desert when they were camped around the Tabernacle. God NEVER gave His love to non-Hebrew Gentiles. It's a Gentile lie you believe in. I'd say, get your doctrine in order. Your heresy is showing.

In order to be saved and born again requires the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL.
Did you know that? So, if the Holy Spirit of Promise was Promised to Israel and ONLY Israel, then where is all this garbage of non-Hebrew Gentiles becoming saved and filled with the Holy Spirit? He wasn't promised to Gentiles. So, what spirit is really inhabiting Gentiles? Not the Holy Spirit of God for He was never promised to Gentiles.
Did you not know that God's Spirit was promised only to Israel?

Well, since you're saying that only Hebrew people can be saved, nothing you claim has any relevance to us Gentiles.
Meaning everybody here who is not a Hebrew can ignore you, everything you post, and continue to follow Jesus.
Ciao.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I've got news for you.
The first gentile was invited by the Holy Spirit in Acts 10. Cornelius and his family.

You are so very wrong.
God NEVER promised His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles. Never.
And Cornelius was a mixed Heritage Hebrew who was still Abraham's seed. Scripture cannot be broken and your misunderstanding and misinterpretation BREAKS Scripture and violates God's written Word.
God never made any covenant with Gentiles. NONE. You're reading too much Gentile theology and NOT ENOUGH Bible to come here and violate God's Word and Break Scripture with you false teaching.

Paul was beheaded in the mid 60's and all of his letters were finished and distributed before his death. So, thousands of Gentiles were part of the church by the time he died.

Saul died in 68AD.
All his letters were many but not all were included in the Gentile bible.
Gentiles were never part of the Lord's Church which began on Pentecost and included three thousand Jews. The Church Jesus promises to build was populated by Jews NOT GENTILES. The Holy Spirit was Promised to Israel NOT TO GENTILES.
I can show you Scripture of God's Spirit Promised to Israel. Can you show me God's Spirit promised to Gentiles?

As such, the destruction of the Temple was a judgment of God on the people of Israel, and had nothing to do with Gentiles becoming part of the body of Christ.

Gentiles are NOT a part of the body of Christ.
God NEVER promised His Spirit to Gentiles.
Show me the verses in the Hebrew Scripture God promising His Spirit to Gentiles.

I've got news for you....
whoever remained in Jerusalem during the destruction of the temple was slaughtered by Romans. Approximately 1000 Jewish people traveled to Masada, and hid out there until Vespasian and Titus came to ransack it. 990 jews were killed by 10 Jewish men, to prevent them from being enslaved and thrn those 10 picked one man to kill the other 9, and then he killed himself.
Gentile Jesus followers had absolutely nothing to do with that.
Gentiles were included in Paul’s entourage to Jerusalem.
yet you're claiming that Martin Luther was a problem.
Well, since you're saying that only Hebrew people can be saved, nothing you claim has any relevance to us Gentiles.
Meaning everybody here who is not a Hebrew can ignore you, everything you post, and continue to follow Jesus.
Ciao.

Post the verse from the Hebrew Scripture (OT) of God promising His Holy Spirit to Gentiles.
Go on. Prove yourself.

 

[SteveB]

You are so very wrong.
God NEVER promised His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles. Never.
And Cornelius was a mixed Heritage Hebrew who was still Abraham's seed. Scripture cannot be broken and your misunderstanding and misinterpretation BREAKS Scripture and violates God's written Word.
God never made any covenant with Gentiles. NONE. You're reading too much Gentile theology and NOT ENOUGH Bible to come here and violate God's Word and Break Scripture with you false teaching.

Saul died in 68AD.
All his letters were many but not all were included in the Gentile bible.
Gentiles were never part of the Lord's Church which began on Pentecost and included three thousand Jews. The Church Jesus promises to build was populated by Jews NOT GENTILES. The Holy Spirit was Promised to Israel NOT TO GENTILES.
I can show you Scripture of God's Spirit Promised to Israel. Can you show me God's Spirit promised to Gentiles?

Gentiles are NOT a part of the body of Christ.
God NEVER promised His Spirit to Gentiles.
Show me the verses in the Hebrew Scripture God promising His Spirit to Gentiles.


Post the verse from the Hebrew Scripture (OT) of God promising His Holy Spirit to Gentiles.
Go on. Prove yourself.

As you've so eloquently stated....
Gentiles are only meant to stoke the fires of hell.
Meaning that you've made everything you want to tell Gentiles utterly meaningless and thoroughly irrelevant.

Go pick on Hebrews.

In the meantime, I'm going to focus on Jesus.
At least I know YHVH saves to the uttermost ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.

Boy, I bet that just stokes your rage to no end.

 

[jeremiah1five]

As you've so eloquently stated....
Gentiles are only meant to stoke the fires of hell.
Meaning that you've made everything you want to tell Gentiles utterly meaningless and thoroughly irrelevant.

In a nutshell. It works for me. How about you?

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:18–23.

Go pick on Hebrews.
In the meantime, I'm going to focus on Jesus.
At least I know YHVH saves to the uttermost ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.
Boy, I bet that just stokes your rage to no end.

I prefer to focus on Jesus, too, and He said:

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:18–23.

True, biblical Christians accept what is written. Edit by Admin

Me? I'm not upset. I accept what is written knowing God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles and understand that my conversion is biblical, that there must be a Hebrew parent in my family history and knowing God did scatter His people throughout the world and that many presumed Gentiles who are truly born again all must have a Hebrew parent in their ancestry as well which is the basis of their being born again before God. I accept the conclusion and I'm grateful to have been among His Chosen from before the foundation of the world to be born at the appointed time and born again at the appointed time. I don't add to Scripture. You do. Plus, your unbelief says it all.

 

[Administrator]

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[Administrator]

Keep your posts on topic not about other members.

 

[SteveB]

In a nutshell. It works for me.

bingo.
which demonstrates you're a Edit Admin.
especially when Jesus said,

Joh 3:16-17 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

How about you?

Nope.
Especially when YHVH actually says

Eze 33:11 WEB Tell them, ‘“As I live,” says the Lord Yahweh, “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why will you die, house of Israel?”’

YHVH takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked....
I'm pretty confident that you are convinced that the Gentiles are wicked.
So, it's clear that YHVH doesn't want even Gentiles to perish.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

yep.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:18–23.

And?

I prefer to focus on Jesus, too, and He said:

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:18–23.

Actually, Paul was quoting the prophet and commenting on it.

True, biblical Christians accept what is written.

Yep.

Edit by Admin

Me? I'm not upset.

Apparently you are. The administrator stepped in to edit what you stated.

I accept what is written knowing God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles and understand that my conversion is biblical, that there must be a Hebrew parent in my family history and knowing God did scatter His people throughout the world and that many presumed Gentiles who are truly born again all must have a Hebrew parent in their ancestry as well which is the basis of their being born again before God. I accept the conclusion and I'm grateful to have been among His Chosen from before the foundation of the world to be born at the appointed time and born again at the appointed time. I don't add to Scripture. You do. Plus, your unbelief says it all.

So you're saying that Jesus and the Father lied?

Eze 33:11 WEBTell them, ‘“As I live,” says the Lord Yahweh, “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why will you die, house of Israel?”’

Joh 3:16-17 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.


How does that work in your mind?
Scripture is only true when it agrees with your ideas?

 

[jeremiah1five]

bingo.
which demonstrates you're a Edit Admin.
especially when Jesus said,

Joh 3:16-17 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

The word "world" does not mean the planet nor the earth, but is used in context to whom Jesus was speaking of. In this case, His elect people. He came to redeem those under the Law, NOT the Gentile "world."

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus. Both are rabbis. If Jesus meant the Gentile "world" Nicodemus would have had something to accuse Jesus of, such as changing the Law of Moses which Law commanded the animal sacrifices yearly to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. Jesus as substitute for the animal and as lamb of God died to atone the sins of the children of Israel, finally and forever. Another thing is the following passages you conveniently ignore:

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light [CHRIST] is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light [CHRIST], because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light [CHRIST], neither cometh to the light [CHRIST], lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light [CHRIST], that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Jn 3:18–21.

The high priest does two things: he prays for the people of God in covenant and offers sacrifice for the people of God in covenant. The people of God in covenant are the children of Israel.
Now, you want to take "world" in John 3:16 and say it applies to everyone in the "world?" Well, let's test that.
Jesus, as High Priest is hours away from being crucified. As High Priest Jesus prays for the people of God in covenant:

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: Jn 17:1.

OK. Here's Jesus as High Priest praying for the people of God in covenant. He prays for Himself, for the twelve disciples, and for those who will come to Christ through their testimony. So, if Jesus is going to save the "world" who you identify in John 3:16 as Gentiles, then it's important that as High Priest Jesus pray for the "world" of Gentiles and place them under sanctification through His prayer. But Jesus doesn't do that. Instead, He is clear the "world" of Gentiles in NOT under sanctification of His prayer and His sacrifice:

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Jn 17:9.

If Jesus' sacrifice is to be applied to the "world" of Gentiles, then the time to pray for them is right here and now but Jesus doesn't pray for the "world" of Gentiles. He even says that He doesn't pray for Gentiles. Instead, He prays for "them" the Jewish disciples, and also those who will believe their testimony. So, the word "world" in John 3:16 does not refer to Gentiles, but to the "world" of Hebrews/Jews who have Jesus as High Priest and are not only included in the High Priest prayer but shortly Jesus will offer Himself as sacrifice for the children of Israel as says the Law.

So, your interpretation of who the "world" are in John 3:16 is refuted by Jesus Priestly prayer to God moments before His arrest and eventual sacrifice of Himself as lamb of God who takes away the sins of the "world" of Hebrews in covenant with God as says the Law of Moses. Read John 17. Take note of Jesus use of "them/they" and "the world" for Jesus is making distinction between the two groups. One has a High Priest who does what the high priest is instructed to do under the Law and that is to pray for the people of God in covenant and offer sacrifices for the people of God in covenant. And Gentiles are NOT among those for whom Christ died to redeem.

Nope.
Especially when YHVH actually says

Eze 33:11 WEB Tell them, ‘“As I live,” says the Lord Yahweh, “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why will you die, house of Israel?”’

YHVH takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked....
I'm pretty confident that you are convinced that the Gentiles are wicked.
So, it's clear that YHVH doesn't want even Gentiles to perish.

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked - people like king Ahab - and the context is not wicked Gentiles but those of His people that are wicked. You can't take Scripture meant for the Hebrew people and make it apply to Gentiles. Not only does it break Scripture, but it violates God's Word as well.

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Ezek. 33:11.

yep.
And?
Actually, Paul was quoting the prophet and commenting on it.
Yep.
Apparently you are. The administrator stepped in to edit what you stated.
So you're saying that Jesus and the Father lied?

Eze 33:11 WEBTell them, ‘“As I live,” says the Lord Yahweh, “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why will you die, house of Israel?”’

Joh 3:16-17 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
How does that work in your mind?
Scripture is only true when it agrees with your ideas?

SEE ABOVE.

Jesus as High Priest DOES NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD OF GENTILES.
He prays for ONLY His people. Jesus doesn't change the Word of God, He fulfills it, and Jesus does not refer to Gentiles in John 3:16 with the use of the word "world."

Remember:

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Jn 17:9.

The "world" of Gentiles is literally without a prayer.

Or a sacrifice.

They are "already condemned" even before they are born. Jesus came to die to redeem those under the Law and Gentiles are NOT under the Law. Never have been, never will be.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

It doesn't get any clearer than this.

You need to bring your understanding into compliance with the Word of God.

 

[SteveB]

The word "world" does not mean the planet nor the earth, but is used in context to whom Jesus was speaking of. In this case, His elect people. He came to redeem those under the Law, NOT the Gentile "world."

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus. Both are rabbis. If Jesus meant the Gentile "world" Nicodemus would have had something to accuse Jesus of, such as changing the Law of Moses which Law commanded the animal sacrifices yearly to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. Jesus as substitute for the animal and as lamb of God died to atone the sins of the children of Israel, finally and forever. Another thing is the following passages you conveniently ignore:

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light [CHRIST] is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light [CHRIST], because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light [CHRIST], neither cometh to the light [CHRIST], lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light [CHRIST], that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Jn 3:18–21.

The high priest does two things: he prays for the people of God in covenant and offers sacrifice for the people of God in covenant. The people of God in covenant are the children of Israel.
Now, you want to take "world" in John 3:16 and say it applies to everyone in the "world?" Well, let's test that.
Jesus, as High Priest is hours away from being crucified. As High Priest Jesus prays for the people of God in covenant:

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: Jn 17:1.

OK. Here's Jesus as High Priest praying for the people of God in covenant. He prays for Himself, for the twelve disciples, and for those who will come to Christ through their testimony. So, if Jesus is going to save the "world" who you identify in John 3:16 as Gentiles, then it's important that as High Priest Jesus pray for the "world" of Gentiles and place them under sanctification through His prayer. But Jesus doesn't do that. Instead, He is clear the "world" of Gentiles in NOT under sanctification of His prayer and His sacrifice:

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Jn 17:9.

If Jesus' sacrifice is to be applied to the "world" of Gentiles, then the time to pray for them is right here and now but Jesus doesn't pray for the "world" of Gentiles. He even says that He doesn't pray for Gentiles. Instead, He prays for "them" the Jewish disciples, and also those who will believe their testimony. So, the word "world" in John 3:16 does not refer to Gentiles, but to the "world" of Hebrews/Jews who have Jesus as High Priest and are not only included in the High Priest prayer but shortly Jesus will offer Himself as sacrifice for the children of Israel as says the Law.

So, your interpretation of who the "world" are in John 3:16 is refuted by Jesus Priestly prayer to God moments before His arrest and eventual sacrifice of Himself as lamb of God who takes away the sins of the "world" of Hebrews in covenant with God as says the Law of Moses. Read John 17. Take note of Jesus use of "them/they" and "the world" for Jesus is making distinction between the two groups. One has a High Priest who does what the high priest is instructed to do under the Law and that is to pray for the people of God in covenant and offer sacrifices for the people of God in covenant. And Gentiles are NOT among those for whom Christ died to redeem.

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked - people like king Ahab - and the context is not wicked Gentiles but those of His people that are wicked. You can't take Scripture meant for the Hebrew people and make it apply to Gentiles. Not only does it break Scripture, but it violates God's Word as well.

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Ezek. 33:11.

SEE ABOVE.

Jesus as High Priest DOES NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD OF GENTILES.
He prays for ONLY His people. Jesus doesn't change the Word of God, He fulfills it, and Jesus does not refer to Gentiles in John 3:16 with the use of the word "world."

Remember:

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Jn 17:9.

The "world" of Gentiles is literally without a prayer.

Or a sacrifice.

They are "already condemned" even before they are born. Jesus came to die to redeem those under the Law and Gentiles are NOT under the Law. Never have been, never will be.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

It doesn't get any clearer than this.

You need to bring your understanding into compliance with the Word of God.

Congratulations!
You have succeeded in convincing me that you need gentiles to stoke the fires of hell.

I bet that you're ecstatic with this.
Knowing that nobody except whom you say is allowed be saved from their sin.
Tell me.
How does it feel Knowing only you can decide who is allowed to be saved?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Congratulations!
You have succeeded in convincing me that you need gentiles to stoke the fires of hell.

Not me, God. He's the One who decides who is saved and who isn't. Consult the Scripture. I do.

I bet that you're ecstatic with this.

When I get to glory, I will be.

Knowing that nobody except whom you say is allowed be saved from their sin.

Jesus died according to the Scripture, Saul says. In other words Saul is saying Jesus died according to the Law of Moses when He died a substitutionary death in place of the animal that was sacrificed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

It's written in the bible. Believe it. I do.

Tell me.
How does it feel Knowing only you can decide who is allowed to be saved?

I don't run on feelings but on every word from the mouth of God.

 

[SteveB]

Not me, God. He's the One who decides who is saved and who isn't.

and YHVH actually says that Gentiles can be saved.

Consult the Scripture. I do.

I do daily.

When I get to glory, I will be.

why wait! You obviously look forward to never having to expose yourself to the disgusting ones who are Gentiles who believe in Jesus.

Jesus died according to the Scripture, Saul says. In other words Saul is saying Jesus died according to the Law of Moses when He died a substitutionary death in place of the animal that was sacrificed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

It's written in the bible. Believe it. I do.

according to you, I'm not allowed to believe in Jesus. I'm supposed to go to hell, based entirely on your posts.
for no other reason than I'm gentile.

I don't run on feelings but on every word from the mouth of God.

As do i, which is exactly why I think you've been deceived and are deceiving others.

 

[jeremiah1five]

and YHVH actually says that Gentiles can be saved.

No, that's what Constantinian Gentile theology of the past 1900 years says, which is lies when held up to Scripture.
God saves through covenant and God has no covenant with anyone besides Abraham and his seed. The whole of the Old Testament Scripture declares this in every book of the Pentateuch, every book of the Psalms, and every book of Israel's prophets. Non-Hebrew Gentiles have not and cannot be saved. Salvation is OF THE JEWS, Jesus said. Why don't you believe Him? Instead, you want to interpret the Hebrew Scripture and the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation as though they were written to Gentiles - which is your first error - and your second error is to not know nor accept what the Hebrew Scripture says on the question of whether non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved - they are not.
And the reason why they are not because God never promised anything to non-Hebrew Gentiles. The Hebrew Scriptures are void of any covenant between God and Gentiles. And the New Testament written by Jewish Christians are merely their searching the Hebrew Scripture for clues and instruction and prophecies about the three Hebrew Covenants and the effect of Israel's Messiah and the Holy Spirit of Promise - PROMISED TO ISRAEL - upon their covenants. This is evident in Saul's words in Galatians 3 in which he writes to those who are Abraham's seed and under the Law to let them know that if "they are Christ's they are STILL Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise (God promised to Abraham and Moses.)

I do daily.
why wait! You obviously look forward to never having to expose yourself to the disgusting ones who are Gentiles who believe in Jesus.

Why should I care about non-Hebrew Gentiles? God doesn't

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

What you need to do is first read and study the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures. Then, with that understood you can rightly understand the New Covenant writings including the four gospels and Acts before you get into the letters. And once you have corresponded the New Covenant writings with the Old Testament writings and record of the Hebrew people from their Law, Psalms, and their Prophets, then you can rightly understand Revelation which is prophecy to and for Israel.

according to you, I'm not allowed to believe in Jesus. I'm supposed to go to hell, based entirely on your posts.
for no other reason than I'm gentile.

As David said:

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest,
And causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts:
We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house,
Even of thy holy temple.
Psalms 65:4.

God determines who He will save and who He will not save. And that knowledge is found in the Hebrew Scripture. And the New Covenant writings will not contradict the Hebrew Scripture. But what does contradict the Hebrew Scripture is the false interpretations of the New Covenant writings by people who do not understand the Law, Psalms, and Israel's Prophets. You have been erroneously indoctrinated with false Gentile theology that contradicts the Word of God. If you would approach the Old Testament as God's Holy Word to Israel, then you might also rightly understand the writings from Matthew to Revelation without the Gentile bias and indoctrination you are heavily influenced by. There is one thing that is clear from the Hebrew Scripture: God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. If you can find a covenant in the Hebrew Scripture that ensures Gentile salvation through covenant between God and Gentiles, then I will be wrong, and you will be right. But there is no such covenant between God and Gentiles. There IS covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's Hebrew seed. But there is no covenant in the Hebrew Scripture between God and Gentiles.

All you have to do is post that covenant from the Hebrew Scripture of a salvation covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles and you will be right, and I will be wrong. But NO ONE has been able to prove Gentiles are in any of the three Hebrew covenants. So, why haven't you done that yet? Because you know in your heart of heart there is no such salvation covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Hebrew Scripture.

As do i, which is exactly why I think you've been deceived and are deceiving others.

To prove me wrong all you have to do is post from the Hebrew Scripture God making a salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. Can you do that and prove yourself right?
I'm waiting.

 

[synergy]

No, that's what Constantinian Gentile theology of the past 1900 years says, which is lies when held up to Scripture.
God saves through covenant and God has no covenant with anyone besides Abraham and his seed. The whole of the Old Testament Scripture declares this in every book of the Pentateuch, every book of the Psalms, and every book of Israel's prophets. Non-Hebrew Gentiles have not and cannot be saved. Salvation is OF THE JEWS, Jesus said. Why don't you believe Him? Instead, you want to interpret the Hebrew Scripture and the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation as though they were written to Gentiles - which is your first error - and your second error is to not know nor accept what the Hebrew Scripture says on the question of whether non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved - they are not.

You keep forgetting about the New Covenant that your favorite Apostle of all times (Paul) allowed Gentiles to participate in as the Lord's Supper. Your Ethnic Cleansing spirit must be convulsing in sheer agony because of that fact. Tell us its name so that we can proceed with its exorcism.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You keep forgetting about the New Covenant that your favorite Apostle of all times (Paul) allowed Gentiles to participate in as the Lord's Supper.

The only "Gentiles" that were allowed to participate in the Passover meal were mixed heritage Hebrews/Jews called "Gentile" and mixed heritage Hebrews/Jews called Samaritans. Saul would not violate God's Law by allowing non-Hebrew Gentiles participate in anything God gave to the Hebrew people. As a rabbi and Pharisee Saul knew he could not allow it since the Law did not allow it. If Saul ever did such a thing and it was found out he would have caused an uproar among not only the religious leaders but the common folk as well. It doesn't happen. It would be tantamount to Antiochus Epiphany's slaying a pig on the altar.

Your Ethnic Cleansing spirit must be convulsing in sheer agony because of that fact. Tell us its name so that we can proceed with its exorcism.

The name of the demon that continues to afflict me with false non-Hebrew Constantinian Gentile theology that contradicts and breaks Scripture is "@synergy."

 

[synergy]

The only "Gentiles" that were allowed to participate in the Passover meal were mixed heritage Hebrews/Jews called "Gentile" and mixed heritage Hebrews/Jews called Samaritans. Saul would not violate God's Law by allowing non-Hebrew Gentiles participate in anything God gave to the Hebrew people. As a rabbi and Pharisee Saul knew he could not allow it since the Law did not allow it. If Saul ever did such a thing and it was found out he would have caused an uproar among not only the religious leaders but the common folk as well. It doesn't happen. It would be tantamount to Antiochus Epiphany's slaying a pig on the altar.

The only Jews that remained in Rome after they were all expelled by Claudius were the ones imagined by your Ethnic Cleansing spirit. The Roman Church was mostly if not totally Gentile when Paul wrote to them. Paul has an affinity for Gentiles that causes your spirit to convulse in horror.

The name of the demon that continues to afflict me with false non-Hebrew Constantinian Gentile theology that contradicts and breaks Scripture is "@synergy."

You have a warm spot for Paul, I'm sure. Come out and say it. Don't be shy.

 

[SteveB]

No, that's what Constantinian Gentile theology of the past 1900 years says, which is lies when held up to Scripture.
God saves through covenant and God has no covenant with anyone besides Abraham and his seed. The whole of the Old Testament Scripture declares this in every book of the Pentateuch, every book of the Psalms, and every book of Israel's prophets. Non-Hebrew Gentiles have not and cannot be saved. Salvation is OF THE JEWS, Jesus said. Why don't you believe Him? Instead, you want to interpret the Hebrew Scripture and the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation as though they were written to Gentiles - which is your first error - and your second error is to not know nor accept what the Hebrew Scripture says on the question of whether non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved - they are not.
And the reason why they are not because God never promised anything to non-Hebrew Gentiles. The Hebrew Scriptures are void of any covenant between God and Gentiles. And the New Testament written by Jewish Christians are merely their searching the Hebrew Scripture for clues and instruction and prophecies about the three Hebrew Covenants and the effect of Israel's Messiah and the Holy Spirit of Promise - PROMISED TO ISRAEL - upon their covenants. This is evident in Saul's words in Galatians 3 in which he writes to those who are Abraham's seed and under the Law to let them know that if "they are Christ's they are STILL Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise (God promised to Abraham and Moses.)

Why should I care about non-Hebrew Gentiles? God doesn't

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

What you need to do is first read and study the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures. Then, with that understood you can rightly understand the New Covenant writings including the four gospels and Acts before you get into the letters. And once you have corresponded the New Covenant writings with the Old Testament writings and record of the Hebrew people from their Law, Psalms, and their Prophets, then you can rightly understand Revelation which is prophecy to and for Israel.

As David said:

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest,
And causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts:
We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house,
Even of thy holy temple.
Psalms 65:4.

God determines who He will save and who He will not save. And that knowledge is found in the Hebrew Scripture. And the New Covenant writings will not contradict the Hebrew Scripture. But what does contradict the Hebrew Scripture is the false interpretations of the New Covenant writings by people who do not understand the Law, Psalms, and Israel's Prophets. You have been erroneously indoctrinated with false Gentile theology that contradicts the Word of God. If you would approach the Old Testament as God's Holy Word to Israel, then you might also rightly understand the writings from Matthew to Revelation without the Gentile bias and indoctrination you are heavily influenced by. There is one thing that is clear from the Hebrew Scripture: God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. If you can find a covenant in the Hebrew Scripture that ensures Gentile salvation through covenant between God and Gentiles, then I will be wrong, and you will be right. But there is no such covenant between God and Gentiles. There IS covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's Hebrew seed. But there is no covenant in the Hebrew Scripture between God and Gentiles.

All you have to do is post that covenant from the Hebrew Scripture of a salvation covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles and you will be right, and I will be wrong. But NO ONE has been able to prove Gentiles are in any of the three Hebrew covenants. So, why haven't you done that yet? Because you know in your heart of heart there is no such salvation covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Hebrew Scripture.

To prove me wrong all you have to do is post from the Hebrew Scripture God making a salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. Can you do that and prove yourself right?
I'm waiting.

Don't you ever read the Bible?

The word goyim, i.e., nations, is used 558 times in the Bible.

H1471 search
Original: גּי גּוי

Transliteration: gôy gôy

Phonetic: go'-ee

BDB Definition:

nation, people (noun masculine)
nation, people
usually of non-Hebrew people
of descendants of Abraham
of Israel
of swarm of locusts, other animals (figuratively)
Goyim? = " nations" (noun proper masculine)
Origin: apparently from the same root as H1465

TWOT entry: 326e

Part(s) of speech:

Strong's Definition: Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation ; hence a Gentile ; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Total KJV Occurrences: 558


So, since you're having a clear problem, I'm thinking that you simply need to read.

You do after all claim to be an expert in theology.
So do expert stuff.

Study to show yourself approved, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Be a berean and demonstrate your nobility.
Search the scriptures daily.

I'd offer to paste all the references, but my device apparently can't contain that much information in its clipboard.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The only Jews that remained in Rome after they were all expelled by Claudius were the ones imagined by your Ethnic Cleansing spirit.

Seems that Claudius did his own ethnic cleansing.

The Roman Church was mostly if not totally Gentile when Paul wrote to them. Paul has an affinity for Gentiles that causes your spirit to convulse in horror.

The Roman Church was populated by Jewish Christians. These were those Jews that went to the Jewish Feast of Harvest, became born-again, and when the Feast was over returned to Rome to their homes and synagogues testifying about Jesus along the way. They took with them an outline of Peter's sermon, the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL and the love of Jesus shining on their face. They were Jews because Gentiles would not go to any of the Jewish Feasts, and besides that Luke says those that were at the Feast and heard their language were from Rome and since God commanded all the males to visit Jerusalem for their feasts those that founded the Roman Church were Jews. When Claudius forced the Jewish Christians to leave it was the mixed heritage Hebrews (Hellenized) that remained.

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Acts 2:10.

You stand corrected.

You have a warm spot for Paul, I'm sure. Come out and say it. Don't be shy.

Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou the church?
Jesus called him by his Hebrew name and so do I.

 

[synergy]

Seems that Claudius did his own ethnic cleansing.

So your Ethnic Cleansing spirit has found a kindred spirit in Claudius.

The Roman Church was populated by Jewish Christians. These were those Jews that went to the Jewish Feast of Harvest, became born-again, and when the Feast was over returned to Rome to their homes and synagogues testifying about Jesus along the way. They took with them an outline of Peter's sermon, the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL and the love of Jesus shining on their face. They were Jews because Gentiles would not go to any of the Jewish Feasts, and besides that Luke says those that were at the Feast and heard their language were from Rome and since God commanded all the males to visit Jerusalem for their feasts those that founded the Roman Church were Jews. When Claudius forced the Jewish Christians to leave it was the mixed heritage Hebrews (Hellenized) that remained.

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Acts 2:10.

You stand corrected.

Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou the church?
Jesus called him by his Hebrew name and so do I.

Therefore, since the Jewish element was totally expelled from Rome, only Gentiles remained. The Romans made sure of that. If you don't believe it then that's on you to prove otherwise. The only Jews that remained in Rome after they were all expelled by Claudius were the ones imagined by your Ethnic Cleansing spirit. The Roman Church was mostly if not totally Gentile when Paul wrote to them. Paul has an affinity for Gentiles that causes your spirit to convulse in horror.

You must have a warm spot for Paul somewhere in your heart, I'm sure. Come out and say that you love Paul. Don't be shy.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Don't you ever read the Bible?

The word goyim, i.e., nations, is used 558 times in the Bible.

H1471 search
Original: גּי גּוי

Transliteration: gôy gôy

Phonetic: go'-ee

BDB Definition:

nation, people (noun masculine)
nation, people
usually of non-Hebrew people
of descendants of Abraham
of Israel
of swarm of locusts, other animals (figuratively)
Goyim? = " nations" (noun proper masculine)
Origin: apparently from the same root as H1465

TWOT entry: 326e

Part(s) of speech:

Strong's Definition: Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation ; hence a Gentile ; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Total KJV Occurrences: 558


So, since you're having a clear problem, I'm thinking that you simply need to read.

You do after all claim to be an expert in theology.
So do expert stuff.

Study to show yourself approved, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Be a berean and demonstrate your nobility.
Search the scriptures daily.

I'd offer to paste all the references, but my device apparently can't contain that much information in its clipboard.

The word only means "massing" as in people. In Genesis it did not mean "Gentiles or "non-Hebrews.

Tell me how two Hebrew parents can birth a non-Hebrew child? It's impossible. At the time Moses wrote the Pentateuch the word "nations" did not mean "Gentiles" or "non-Hebrews. Pay attention:

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Gen. 17:4.

"Nations" here does not mean Gentiles for how can two Hebrew parents birth a non-Hebrew child? They can't. The word at this time in early Abraham family history did not mean "Gentiles." Here it is again:

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:16.

These "massing's" (or people) refer to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. Both came from Abraham. But one was with a slave woman and the other was from two Hebrew parents. Pay attention to the language:

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:16.

and

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:6.

Believing that "nations" refers to non-Hebrew Gentiles fails to understand that Sarah's "shall be of her" and Abraham's "shall come out of thee" (Abraham) refers to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. They are both the seed of Abraham and are the "nations" ("massing's of people) referred to by Moses. For again, two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah) cannot birth a non-Hebrew Gentile child. So, your interpretation that "nations" here in Genesis refers to non-Hebrew Gentiles is in error.
More study on your part in necessary.