The Importance of The Law of Moses

[jeremiah1five]

I do take the word of God as written. If the Bible says that the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles then by all means I do believe it. Thus you can toss your Ethnic Cleansing spirit out the window.

And where in the Old Testament does it say this?

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

If there is no Old Testament precedent, there is no New Testament reality.
Saul, Peter, even Jesus taught from the Hebrew Scripture everything that took place in first century understanding of Christianity. Jesus taught from the Old Testament and from the Law of Moses as well as the prophets who wrote their prophecies for the Hebrew people. Nowhere in the Old Testament is there evidence God gave His Spirit to non-Hebrews but was a promise given to conclude and seal the New Covenant in Christ's blood sacrifice. Jesus taught the disciples the Comforter would be within THEM. The Holy Spirit being given to non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles is a doctrine that has no Scriptural support in the Old Testament.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Nope.
I simply read ALL scripture.
all 31,102 verses, in all 39 books of the law, writings and prophets in the Hebrew Scripture, and all 27 books of the new testament.
something you apparently lack the wherewithal of learning.

Show me in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 where the Abraham Covenant was being made where God includes non-Hebrews.
Also, show me the Scripture that says the Spirit of God was to be poured out on Gentiles or that the Spirit was promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles. That's all you got to do to prove your false doctrine.

curious thing about Saul.
he died. Paul was raised in Christ, in place of Saul.
you're more than welcome to continue to remain stuck on a dead guy. But the guy i focus on has been raised from the dead in Christ, and he's pretty clear that Gentiles are welcome into the Kingdom of God in Christ.

Jesus, a Jew, called Saul by his Jewish name. So do I.

exactly!
which is exactly why I find it so curious that you're consigning Gentiles to the lake of fire when the law and prophets welcome Gentiles into the Kingdom of God.

You completely ignore mixed heritage Hebrews.

Yep.
the covenant i as a Gentile am welcomed by is the blood of Jesus.

Again, where in the Old Testament are non-Hebrews included in any of the Hebrew Covenants? (Abraham, Mosaic, New.)

Pity you've ignored the covenant YHVH made with Abraham.
it's plainly stated that all the families of the earth will be blessed in his seed.
as I'm a member of one of those families of the earth, I'm enjoying peace with YHVH through the seed of Abraham, Jesus.

Since God has addressed Abraham's seed, they are the "families of the earth" that God would bless. You have a weak argument to interpret "Hebrew families" and make them "Gentile."

nope.
that'd be you.
and as it's further written,
Tit 3:9-11 WEB 9 but shun foolish questionings, genealogies, strife, and disputes about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 Avoid a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a one is perverted and sinful, being self-condemned.

The Hebrew Scripture records everything about the New Covenant. It is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ.

I'm looking at this and recognizing a simple fact....
You've been repeatedly given numerous warnings, but refuse to learn anything, making you a factious, argumentative, perverted, self-condemned individual.
I'm satisfied that we're done.
you keep choosing your madness.
even Paul describes this dynamic to Timothy.

2Ti 3:7 WEB always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

May YHVH's Word, Grace, Spirit and Love bring you to full repentance.

We're done here.

You're done. But it being my thread I have the last word.

But you still can't provide any Scripture from the Old Testament of Gentiles in the Hebrew Covenants.

 

[SteveB]

Show me in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 where the Abraham Covenant was being made where God includes non-Hebrews.

Interesting....
You don't actually know how to understand what you read, do you?


Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

Gen 17:5 WEB Your name will no more be called Abram, but your name will be Abraham; for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.

Also, show me the Scripture that says the Spirit of God was to be poured out on Gentiles or that the Spirit was promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles.

You'll have to take this up with him.
Acts 10-11 makes it quite clear that Gentiles are welcome into the Kingdom of God.
Peter even quoted Joel, and he quoted Jesus.
So, Joel 2:28-29, and Jesus, Acts 1:5.
So, if you're really having a problem with reality, I'd say you're only screwing yourself.
Do you really want to tell YHVH he's wrong and can't save people who Jesus died for?

That's all you got to do to prove your false doctrine.

Done.

Jesus, a Jew, called Saul by his Jewish name. So do I.

Rather curious thing about this....
According to the guy who was formerly named Saul, he called himself Paul, and wrote 13 new testament letters under that name.
Furthermore, as you're ignoring Jesus when it suits you, I'm calling .

You completely ignore mixed heritage Hebrews.

nope! I'm depending on the heritage of Yahweh’s servants.
Romans 9-11 demonstrates the necessity of it!!!!

Again, where in the Old Testament are non-Hebrews included in any of the Hebrew Covenants? (Abraham, Mosaic, New.)

Rahab, Ruth,
Exodus 12:49, Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 15:15-16,
We then have 60 instances of foreigners being invited and welcomed.
And while there are indeed limits on the activities we can be involved in, it's clear that YHVH doesn't want us excluded.

60 verses found.

Exo 2:22 She bore a son, and he named him Gershom, note for he said, “I have lived as a foreigner in a foreign land.”

Exo 12:19 There shall be no yeast found in your houses for seven days, for whoever eats that which is leavened, that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a foreigner, or one who is born in the land.

Exo 12:43 Yahweh said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover. No foreigner shall eat of it,

Exo 12:45 A foreigner and a hired servant shall not eat of it.

Exo 12:48 When a stranger lives as a foreigner with you, and would like to keep the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it. He shall be as one who is born in the land; but no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.

Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him who is born at home, and to the stranger who lives as a foreigner among you.”

Exo 18:3 and her two sons. The name of one son was Gershom, note for Moses said, “I have lived as a foreigner in a foreign land”.

Lev 16:29 “It shall be a statute to you forever: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and shall do no kind of work, whether native-born or a stranger who lives as a foreigner among you;

Lev 17:8 “You shall say to them, ‘Any man there is of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who live as foreigners among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,

Lev 17:10 “‘Any man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who live as foreigners among them, who eats any kind of blood, I will set my face against that soul who eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

Lev 17:12 Therefore I have said to the children of Israel, “No person among you may eat blood, nor may any stranger who lives as a foreigner among you eat blood.”

Lev 17:13 “‘Whatever man there is of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who live as foreigners among them, who takes in hunting any animal or bird that may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood, and cover it with dust.

Lev 17:15 “‘Every person that eats what dies of itself, or that which is torn by animals, whether he is native-born or a foreigner, shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. Then he shall be clean.

Lev 18:26 You therefore shall keep my statutes and my ordinances, and shall not do any of these abominations; neither the native-born, nor the stranger who lives as a foreigner among you

Lev 19:10 You shall not glean your vineyard, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the foreigner. I am Yahweh your God.

Lev 19:33 “‘If a stranger lives as a foreigner with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong.

Lev 19:34 The stranger who lives as a foreigner with you shall be to you as the native-born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you lived as foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh your God.

Lev 20:2 “Moreover, you shall tell the children of Israel, ‘Anyone of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who live as foreigners in Israel, who gives any of his offspring note to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone that person with stones.

Lev 22:10 “‘No stranger shall eat of the holy thing: a foreigner living with the priests, or a hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

Lev 22:18 “Speak to Aaron, and to his sons, and to all the children of Israel, and say to them, ‘Whoever is of the house of Israel, or of the foreigners in Israel, who offers his offering, whether it is any of their vows or any of their free will offerings, which they offer to Yahweh for a burnt offering:

Lev 22:25 You must not offer any of these as the bread of your God from the hand of a foreigner, because their corruption is in them. There is a defect in them. They shall not be accepted for you.’”

Lev 23:22 “‘When you reap the harvest of your land, you must not wholly reap into the corners of your field. You must not gather the gleanings of your harvest. You must leave them for the poor and for the foreigner. I am Yahweh your God.’”

Lev 24:16 He who blasphemes Yahweh’s name, he shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him. The foreigner as well as the native-born shall be put to death when he blasphemes the Name.

Lev 24:22 You shall have one kind of law for the foreigner as well as the native-born; for I am Yahweh your God.’”

Lev 25:6 The Sabbath of the land shall be for food for you; for yourself, for your servant, for your maid, for your hired servant, and for your stranger, who lives as a foreigner with you.

Lev 25:23 “‘The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land is mine; for you are strangers and live as foreigners with me.

Lev 25:47 “‘If an alien or temporary resident with you becomes rich, and your brother beside him has grown poor, and sells himself to the stranger or foreigner living among you, or to a member of the stranger’s family,

Num 9:14 “‘If a foreigner lives among you and desires to keep the Passover to Yahweh, then he shall do so according to the statute of the Passover, and according to its ordinance. You shall have one statute, both for the foreigner and for him who is born in the land.’”

Num 15:14 If a stranger lives as a foreigner with you, or whoever may be among you throughout your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a pleasant aroma to Yahweh, as you do, so he shall do.

Num 15:15 For the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the stranger who lives as a foreigner, a statute forever throughout your generations. As you are, so the foreigner shall be before Yahweh.

Num 15:16 One law and one ordinance shall be for you and for the stranger who lives as a foreigner with you.’”

Num 15:26 All the congregation of the children of Israel shall be forgiven, as well as the stranger who lives as a foreigner among them; for with regard to all the people, it was done unwittingly.

Num 15:29 You shall have one law for him who does anything unwittingly, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger who lives as a foreigner among them.

Num 15:30 “‘But the soul who does anything with a high hand, whether he is native-born or a foreigner, blasphemes Yahweh. That soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Num 19:10 He who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening. It shall be to the children of Israel, and to the stranger who lives as a foreigner among them, for a statute forever.

Num 35:15 These six cities shall be refuge for the children of Israel, for the stranger, and for the foreigner living among them, that everyone who kills any person unwittingly may flee there.

Deu 1:16 I commanded your judges at that time, saying, “Hear cases between your brothers and judge righteously between a man and his brother, and the foreigner who is living with him.

Deu 10:18 He executes justice for the fatherless and widow and loves the foreigner in giving him food and clothing.

Deu 10:19 Therefore love the foreigner, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt.

Deu 14:21 You shall not eat of anything that dies of itself. You may give it to the foreigner living among you who is within your gates, that he may eat it; or you may sell it to a foreigner; for you are a holy people to Yahweh your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.

Deu 14:29 The Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, as well as the foreigner living among you, the fatherless, and the widow who are within your gates shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that Yahweh your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

Deu 15:3 Of a foreigner you may require it; but whatever of yours is with your brother, your hand shall release.

Deu 16:11 You shall rejoice before Yahweh your God: you, your son, your daughter, your male servant, your female servant, the Levite who is within your gates, the foreigner, the fatherless, and the widow who are among you, in the place which Yahweh your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there.

Deu 16:14 You shall rejoice in your feast, you, your son, your daughter, your male servant, your female servant, the Levite, the foreigner, the fatherless, and the widow who are within your gates.

Deu 17:15 you shall surely set him whom Yahweh your God chooses as king over yourselves. You shall set as king over you one from among your brothers. You may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother.

Deu 23:7 You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, because you lived as a foreigner in his land.

Deu 23:20 You may charge a foreigner interest; but you shall not charge your brother interest, that Yahweh your God may bless you in all that you put your hand to, in the land where you go in to possess it.

Deu 24:14 You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your brothers or one of the foreigners who are in your land within your gates.

Deu 24:17 You shall not deprive the foreigner or the fatherless of justice, nor take a widow’s clothing in pledge;

Deu 24:19 When you reap your harvest in your field, and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go again to get it. It shall be for the foreigner, for the fatherless, and for the widow, that Yahweh your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Deu 24:20 When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs again. It shall be for the foreigner, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

Deu 24:21 When you harvest your vineyard, you shall not glean it after yourselves. It shall be for the foreigner, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

Deu 26:11 You shall rejoice in all the good which Yahweh your God has given to you, and to your house, you, and the Levite, and the foreigner who is among you.

Deu 26:12 When you have finished tithing all the tithe of your increase in the third year, which is the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the foreigner, to the fatherless, and to the widow, that they may eat within your gates and be filled.

Deu 26:13 You shall say before Yahweh your God, “I have put away the holy things out of my house, and also have given them to the Levite, to the foreigner, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all your commandment which you have commanded me. I have not transgressed any of your commandments, neither have I forgotten them.

Deu 27:19 ‘Cursed is he who withholds justice from the foreigner, fatherless, and widow.’ All the people shall say, ‘Amen.’

Deu 28:43 The foreigner who is among you will mount up above you higher and higher, and you will come down lower and lower.

Deu 29:11 your little ones, your wives, and the foreigners who are in the middle of your camps, from the one who cuts your wood to the one who draws your water,

Deu 29:22 The generation to come—your children who will rise up after you, and the foreigner who will come from a far land—will say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses with which Yahweh has made it sick,

Deu 31:12 Assemble the people, the men and the women and the little ones, and the foreigners who are within your gates, that they may hear, learn, fear Yahweh your God, and observe to do all the words of this law,

Since God has addressed Abraham's seed, they are the "families of the earth" that God would bless.

exactly.

You have a weak argument to interpret "Hebrew families" and make them "Gentile."

the curious thing about this is....
in Hebrew, the phrase used is mishpechot haadamah.

Take it up with Him.

The Hebrew Scripture records everything about the New Covenant. It is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ.

Ah, so Jesus didn't bring in the new covenant described in Jeremiah?

You're done.

i was done weeks ago. I've told you that at least 3 times now.

But it being my thread I have the last word.

bingo!
this isn't about truth for you.
this is your sandbox and you will be king, regardless of the truth.

But you still can't provide any Scripture from the Old Testament of Gentiles in the Hebrew Covenants.

Read the context of the 60 verses in the Torah, which is quoted above.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Interesting....
You don't actually know how to understand what you read, do you?

I know enough to not try to understand Hebrew Scripture, language, history, culture, and societal nuances with a Gentile mindset and perspective.

Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

Gen 17:5 WEB Your name will no more be called Abram, but your name will be Abraham; for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.

Who are these families?
Abraham's seed and his descendants. It is a covenant between God, Abraham, and his seed. Thus, those that are to be blessed are his descendants. You can't insert non-Hebrews where non-Hebrews are not part of the covenant being made in these verses.

And "nations"? These are not non-Hebrew "nations" because again the covenant is between God, Abraham, and his descendants (seed.) your error is you are interpreting "nations" as a Gentile instead of a Hebrew in whom the covenant rests. "Nations" does not translate to nations of Gentiles or United Nations. That's facetious. Nation of Israel. Does that mean the Hebrew people of Israel are Gentile? According to you they are. How stupid is that?

The term "nations" refers to Israel. Are the Hebrews a bunch of Gentiles??? Stupid. "Nations" refers to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, both the seed of Abraham but not inheritors of the Promise. Nor are Gentiles inheritors since the covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's HEBREW seed.
What a waste of my time and effort.

 

[SteveB]

I know enough to not try to understand Hebrew Scripture, language, history, culture, and societal nuances with a Gentile mindset and perspective.

Still desperately clinging to your ongoing dedication to have the last word?

In Acts 15, the church is having the first council to confront and deal with God's welcoming of Cornelius and his family and servants into the Kingdom of God.
As I'm sure you're well aware, it's caused quite a stir among Jewish believers.
At verses 13 through 21, James stood up and spoke to the brothers and in his speech, quoted Amos 9.

Amo 9:11-12 LXX2012 11 In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and will rebuild the ruins of it, and will set up the parts thereof that have been broken down, and will build it up as in the ancient days: 12 that the remnant of men, and all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called, may earnestly seek me, says the Lord who does all these things.

Then, in verse 22, the council members' response is noted.

Act 15:22-29 WEB 22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole assembly, to choose men out of their company, and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas: Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, chief men among the brothers. 23 They wrote these things by their hand: “The apostles, the elders, and the brothers, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: greetings. 24 Because we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, ‘You must be circumcised and keep the law,’ to whom we gave no commandment; 25 it seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose out men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who themselves will also tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay no greater burden on you than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality, from which if you keep yourselves, it will be well with you. Farewell.”

So, at this point, it's quite clear to me that you need to turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus.

Not the Jesus you've concocted in your ego. But the Jesus described in the Bible.

Who are these families?
Abraham's seed and his descendants. It is a covenant between God, Abraham, and his seed. Thus, those that are to be blessed are his descendants. You can't insert non-Hebrews where non-Hebrews are not part of the covenant being made in these verses.

And "nations"? These are not non-Hebrew "nations" because again the covenant is between God, Abraham, and his descendants (seed.) your error is you are interpreting "nations" as a Gentile instead of a Hebrew in whom the covenant rests. "Nations" does not translate to nations of Gentiles or United Nations. That's facetious. Nation of Israel. Does that mean the Hebrew people of Israel are Gentile? According to you they are. How stupid is that?

The term "nations" refers to Israel. Are the Hebrews a bunch of Gentiles??? Stupid. "Nations" refers to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, both the seed of Abraham but not inheritors of the Promise. Nor are Gentiles inheritors since the covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's HEBREW seed.
What a waste of my time and effort.

Then why are you still talking?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yup. The last word. Like now.

 

[SteveB]

Word!

 

[synergy]

And "nations"? These are not non-Hebrew "nations" because again the covenant is between God, Abraham, and his descendants (seed.) your error is you are interpreting "nations" as a Gentile instead of a Hebrew in whom the covenant rests. "Nations" does not translate to nations of Gentiles or United Nations. That's facetious. Nation of Israel. Does that mean the Hebrew people of Israel are Gentile? According to you they are. How stupid is that?

The term "nations" refers to Israel. Are the Hebrews a bunch of Gentiles??? Stupid. "Nations" refers to the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, both the seed of Abraham but not inheritors of the Promise. Nor are Gentiles inheritors since the covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's HEBREW seed.
What a waste of my time and effort.

(Act 13:19) And when He had destroyed seven nations (εθνη) in the land of Canaan, he gave their land to them as an inheritance.

Canaanites are examples of Ethnics. So the very people that your Judaizing spirit wants to ethnically cleanse are the very same people that Gal 3:8 says will be blessed by God. You are just too hilarious!!!!

Stupid.

That is exactly what you promote. You said it!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Word!

Weird!

 

[jeremiah1five]

(Act 13:19) And when He had destroyed seven nations (εθνη) in the land of Canaan, he gave their land to them as an inheritance.

Yes, God did.

Canaanites are examples of Ethnics. So the very people that your Judaizing spirit wants to ethnically cleanse are the very same people that Gal 3:8 says will be blessed by God. You are just too hilarious!!!!

That is exactly what you promote. You said it!

Canaanites just might be the seed of Ishmael and Esau.
Ot the seed of Japheth and Ham.
But they are not inheritors of the Promise and so have to go beddie-bye.
God ordered the hit on all men, women, teens, children, toddlers, infants, and babes in the womb.
Give God the glory!

 

[SteveB]

Weird!

No.
Word.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No.
Word.

No, wierd.
The Word is for believers only. Not even God cast His Pearls (His Word) to swine (non-covenant, uncircumcised, non-Hebrew Gentiles.)
God said He was going to send a strong delusion UPON THE WORLD.
And it is the world that is deluded in thinking and believes non-Hebrews are saved.

 

[SteveB]

No, wierd.

Word! As in Logos

The Word is for believers only.

Bingo!

You're catching on

Not even God cast His Pearls (His Word) to swine (non-covenant, uncircumcised, non-Hebrew Gentiles.)

Yet he has.
Are did you miss that one of his original disciples was Simon the Canaanite.
How utterly terrifying that must be for you.

I find it curious that you're so desperate that you have ignored the discussion the early church had regarding their awareness that Cornelius and his household were Gentiles, and how utterly offended they were by it, but they also recognized that God had saved them, as evidenced by their speaking in tongues.
So....
Yeah.....
Word!

God said He was going to send a strong delusion UPON THE WORLD.

Apparently you've chosen your delusion.
Why is that?
Is your opinion so important to you that YHVH is not allowed to save to the uttermost all who come to him through Jesus Christ?
Especially when he intercedes for us?

And it is the world that is deluded in thinking and believes non-Hebrews are saved.

Or, that they cannot be saved, when Scripture says we will be.

Isa 11:10 WEB It will happen in that day that the nations will seek the root of Jesse, who stands as a banner of the peoples; and his resting place will be glorious.

Gen 18:18 WEBsince Abraham will surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed in him?

Gen 22:18 WEBAll the nations of the earth will be blessed by your offspring, because you have obeyed my voice.’”

Gen 26:4 WEBI will multiply your offspring as the stars of the sky, and will give all these lands to your offspring. In your offspring all the nations of the earth will be blessed,

 

[jeremiah1five]

Word! As in Logos

Bingo!

You're catching on

Yet he has.
Are did you miss that one of his original disciples was Simon the Canaanite.
How utterly terrifying that must be for you.

I find it curious that you're so desperate that you have ignored the discussion the early church had regarding their awareness that Cornelius and his household were Gentiles, and how utterly offended they were by it, but they also recognized that God had saved them, as evidenced by their speaking in tongues.
So....
Yeah.....
Word!

Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken." This means everything written in the Hebrew Scripture is like it is written in stone, unbreakable. Unchangeable. You cannot add to what is written in stone. If a chisel or some writing instrument was used, and the Law was "tapped into the stone" by a hammer, to come later to try to "tap" something new added onto the stone would break the stone. It means that in order to prove non-Hebrew Gentiles are in any of the Hebrew covenants one needs to prove they are mentioned or named IN the covenant when said covenant was first made. Going to Genesis 12, 15, and 17, when God made covenant with Abraham there are no non-Hebrews mentioned or named included in this covenant, and to add non-Hebrews into the covenant after the fact and after the covenant has been closed to any alterations or additions is to violate what has been originally written and Jesus said this CANNOT be done!
I keep asking for someone, anyone, to show me in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 where Moses recorded the covenant with Abraham to show me God naming or mentioning non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant, but it cannot be done because God does not include non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant. But for 1900 years since Israel's destruction and their Temple being destroyed everyone who has an eye to see can see non-Hebrew Gentiles trying to add themselves into the Abraham Covenant by mis-interpreting Galatians 3:28-29 as their proof. They are good at twisting New Testament passages to prove inclusion, BUT they can never show from the Old Testament when the covenant was originally made with Abraham and recorded by Moses in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 God naming or mentioning non-Hebrew Gentiles in Abraham's covenant. They can never do it. And the reason why they can never do it is because it is not there!

Apparently you've chosen your delusion.
Why is that?
Is your opinion so important to you that YHVH is not allowed to save to the uttermost all who come to him through Jesus Christ?
Especially when he intercedes for us?

YHVH most definitely does save to the uttermost. Saul says it and I say it just as written that ALL ISRAEL - not Gentiles - SHALL BE SAVED.

So, I ask for the gazillioneth time: show me in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 God naming or mentioning non-Hebrew Gentiles as being in the Abraham Covenant. Here's your opportunity to prove me wrong and you right. Go ahead. Prove it.

Or, that they cannot be saved, when Scripture says we will be.

Really? Where in the Hebrew Scripture (OT) does God make covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles or that they are in any of the Hebrew covenants. Show me.

Isa 11:10 WEB It will happen in that day that the nations will seek the root of Jesse, who stands as a banner of the peoples; and his resting place will be glorious.
Gen 18:18 WEBsince Abraham will surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed in him?
Gen 22:18 WEBAll the nations of the earth will be blessed by your offspring, because you have obeyed my voice.’”
Gen 26:4 WEBI will multiply your offspring as the stars of the sky, and will give all these lands to your offspring. In your offspring all the nations of the earth will be blessed,

I see you use a corrupt translation. I'm still waiting for you to show me using a good translation God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles or that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in any of the Hebrew covenants.
Without twisting Scripture or misinterpreting Scripture.
Go on. Show me.

 

[SteveB]

Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken." This means everything written in the Hebrew Scripture is like it is written in stone, unbreakable.

Exactly.

Unchangeable. You cannot add to what is written in stone.

Yet you're constantly doing exactly that.

If a chisel or some writing instrument was used, and the Law was "tapped into the stone" by a hammer, to come later to try to "tap" something new added onto the stone would break the stone. It means that in order to prove non-Hebrew Gentiles are in any of the Hebrew covenants one needs to prove they are mentioned or named IN the covenant when said covenant was first made. Going to Genesis 12, 15, and 17, when God made covenant with Abraham there are no non-Hebrews mentioned or named included in this covenant, and to add non-Hebrews into the covenant after the fact and after the covenant has been closed to any alterations or additions is to violate what has been originally written and Jesus said this CANNOT be done!
I keep asking for someone, anyone, to show me in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 where Moses recorded the covenant with Abraham to show me God naming or mentioning non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant, but it cannot be done because God does not include non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant. But for 1900 years since Israel's destruction and their Temple being destroyed everyone who has an eye to see can see non-Hebrew Gentiles trying to add themselves into the Abraham Covenant by mis-interpreting Galatians 3:28-29 as their proof. They are good at twisting New Testament passages to prove inclusion, BUT they can never show from the Old Testament when the covenant was originally made with Abraham and recorded by Moses in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 God naming or mentioning non-Hebrew Gentiles in Abraham's covenant. They can never do it. And the reason why they can never do it is because it is not there!

YHVH most definitely does save to the uttermost. Saul says it and I say it just as written that ALL ISRAEL - not Gentiles - SHALL BE SAVED.

So, I ask for the gazillioneth time: show me in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 God naming or mentioning non-Hebrew Gentiles as being in the Abraham Covenant. Here's your opportunity to prove me wrong and you right. Go ahead. Prove it.

why! You've repeatedly stated that the word nations isn't actually goyim. It's polluted Hebrews.
so, why would I continue to take your claims seriously?
goyim is goyim.
non Hebrew blood.

Really? Where in the Hebrew Scripture (OT) does God make covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles or that they are in any of the Hebrew covenants. Show me.

I see you use a corrupt translation. I'm still waiting for you to show me using a good translation God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles or that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in any of the Hebrew covenants.
Without twisting Scripture or misinterpreting Scripture.
Go on. Show me.

Already did.
Your desperation to justify yourself is thick.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Exactly.
Yet you're constantly doing exactly that.

Nope. You're the one adding to the bible things it never says. You're the one who adds non-Hebrew Gentiles to a Hebrew covenant when God never included them in His covenants.

why! You've repeatedly stated that the word nations isn't actually goyim. It's polluted Hebrews.
so, why would I continue to take your claims seriously?
goyim is goyim.
non Hebrew blood.

So, Abram THE HEBREW is married to his father's broth's daughter, a fellow HEBREW and according to your false interpretation they birth a non-Hebrew Gentile Isaac?

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:16.

So, if she is to be a "mother of nations" and you take "nations" to mean non-Hebrew Gentiles and Isaac is born to two HEBREW parents, how can Abraham's seed be "non-Hebrew"?

Answer: in Genesis 17 it doesn't mean "Gentile." It means "massing" as in the "massing" of a people.

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Gen. 17:19.

How can two HEBREW parents birth a non-Hebrew Gentile? That is biologically impossible. God ordained that His creature creation bear "seed after their kind."

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen. 1:25.

This also establishes that "sons of God" in Genesis 6 are not "angel- human" hybrid. Even the Gentile interpretation that "angels- humans" cannot have offspring between a spiritual creature (angels) and physical women. But that doesn't matter to you here either because you'd rather BREAK Scripture and teach angels can breed "after their kind? and have offspring that are half spiritual and half physical.
Just more heresy from you.

Already did.
Your desperation to justify yourself is thick.

"Nations" do not translate to "non-Hebrew Gentiles." It's just a word Strong defines as "massing", the furthest definition of Isaac being a non-Hebrew child to two Hebrew parents. Quite impossible to accomplish unless you want to BREAK Scripture.
I see you haven't studied these questions. It's easier to just regurgitate the false Gentile textbook theology it posits.

Your beliefs are grounded in men's imaginations and mine is grounded in God's Word. That's why we are divided in understanding the things of God.

 

[synergy]

Nope. You're the one adding to the bible things it never says. You're the one who adds non-Hebrew Gentiles to a Hebrew covenant when God never included them in His covenants.

Paul included Gentiles into the New Covenant by virtue of the Blood of Christ. Now I see how Paul is your favorite Apostle of all time and you never have a bad word to say about him.

 

[SteveB]

Nope. You're the one adding to the bible things it never says. You're the one who adds non-Hebrew Gentiles to a Hebrew covenant when God never included them in His covenants.

So, Abram THE HEBREW is married to his father's broth's daughter, a fellow HEBREW and according to your false interpretation they birth a non-Hebrew Gentile Isaac?

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:16.

So, if she is to be a "mother of nations" and you take "nations" to mean non-Hebrew Gentiles and Isaac is born to two HEBREW parents, how can Abraham's seed be "non-Hebrew"?

Answer: in Genesis 17 it doesn't mean "Gentile." It means "massing" as in the "massing" of a people.

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Gen. 17:19.

How can two HEBREW parents birth a non-Hebrew Gentile? That is biologically impossible. God ordained that His creature creation bear "seed after their kind."

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen. 1:25.

This also establishes that "sons of God" in Genesis 6 are not "angel- human" hybrid. Even the Gentile interpretation that "angels- humans" cannot have offspring between a spiritual creature (angels) and physical women. But that doesn't matter to you here either because you'd rather BREAK Scripture and teach angels can breed "after their kind? and have offspring that are half spiritual and half physical.
Just more heresy from you.

"Nations" do not translate to "non-Hebrew Gentiles." It's just a word Strong defines as "massing", the furthest definition of Isaac being a non-Hebrew child to two Hebrew parents. Quite impossible to accomplish unless you want to BREAK Scripture.
I see you haven't studied these questions. It's easier to just regurgitate the false Gentile textbook theology it posits.

Your beliefs are grounded in men's imaginations and mine is grounded in God's Word. That's why we are divided in understanding the things of God.

Word- Logos- Word.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Paul included Gentiles into the New Covenant by virtue of the Blood of Christ. Now I see how Paul is your favorite Apostle of all time and you never have a bad word to say about him.

Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken." If Saul is saying non-Hebrew Gentiles are included in the Abraham Covenant, then Saul is breaking from Scripture. But Saul is not saying such a thing. He is a rabbi and Pharisee, one who is held in high esteem by both Jews and Jewish Christians alike and Saul knows that Scripture cannot be broken and that the Hebrew covenants are between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's Hebrew seed, a people known as the children of Israel.

The Abraham Covenant promises of God and the ritual that sealed the deal (Gen. 15) is recorded by Moses in what will be known as Genesis 12, 15, and 17, and there are no non-Hebrews named or mentioned by God as being included in this covenant. Look at it realistically. God is speaking to only one person, Moses writes. God makes promises to this one person. God is not speaking to anyone but to a man identified by God as Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13.) During this interaction God says He will extend the promises to Abram's Hebrew seed. It will be Abram's seed that will receive the promise of land. As part of this covenant of promises God makes a prophecy that Abram's seed will go into captivity in a strange land but also declares He will lead this Hebrew congregation out of their bondage and this God does in a subsequent book called "Exodus."

At any rate, after God leads His covenant people out of Egypt, He makes a bunch of promises to the Hebrews and gives them His Law. Thus, another covenant is made with Abram's seed who at first only knew one. But back to what Moses wrote about a covenant of promises between God and one man - Abram - there is no one else included in this covenant. No one else. So, it's not Saul who is breaking with Scripture but the interpretation that Saul - who doesn't even have authority to do the impossible, and that is add to the Word of God, it is the non-Hebrew Gentile interpretation that violates what was written by Moses and declared unbreakable by God and His Christ that is the error. God's written or spoken word cannot be changed by any human. Not even Moses makes any changes to what He wrote as the Pentateuch, and this has been the accepted standard of the Hebrew people. In all Jewish history no rabbi or religious leader teaches Saul adds Gentiles to the Jewish covenant. So, it's the false interpretation that seeks to do damage to God's written word and that in and of itself is antibiblical, antigod, and antichristian.
But I expect false beliefs to come from false brethren. I've already identified you as false brethren - at least I've never called you "brother" because in order to do that it is necessary that we have the same Father, and we do not. I've never joined Christ to Satan as you do. But that's your prerogative. Keep believing in lies. I know the truth.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Word- Logos- Word.

Weird - no-goes -weird.