The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

[Johann]

Scripture please?

...?

The Bible is True Whether You Believe It or Not

The Bible is true whether you believe it or not.

Stranger: I don’t believe in God or the Bible.

Bible believer: Do you mean they don’t exist, or they are not true?

Stranger: I don’t believe God exists, and I don’t believe the Bible is true.

Bible believer: What do you believe?

Stranger: I believe what I can see, test, and observe in nature. I believe in science. I believe in what I can prove.

Bible believer: You are a man of nature?

Stranger: Yes, that would be accurate.

Bible believer: Do you believe you have a soul or spirit?

Stranger: No. What you call a soul or spirit is a product of electro-chemical processes in our brains.

Bible believer: So, you don’t accept the Bible’s premise that there is a spiritual world and God is a Spirit?

Stranger: That is right, I do not accept that.

Bible believer: Do you think there is any possible way for you to know about spiritual things?

Stranger: How can we if we don’t have souls or spirits? Science has no observable evidence of those things.

Bible believer: Would you call the teachings of the Bible silly, ignorant, or lacking understanding?

Stranger: I don’t want to offend you, but to be honest, yes I do.

Bible believer: Let me get this straight. You are a natural man who does not receive the spiritual things of the God, because they are foolish to you, and you cannot know them, because you don’t have a functioning spirit?

Stranger: That is true. Can you prove to me the Bible is true?

Bible believer: No, but I know why, and I think you just proved to me that the Bible is true whether you believe it or not.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” – 1 Corinthians 2:14-15

 

[synergy]

Everyone. If we are not clear on at least what differentiates our soul from our spirit, we are going nowhere fast.

Ideally, we need to know clearly what constitutes our soul and what constitutes our spirit. Failing that, we need to know at least what differentiates them.

 

[Diserner]

That can be done with our spirit and even our bodies. What differentiates our soul from our spirit?

That's a difficult question.

I would say our spirit is deeper and more intense and more aligned towards God and spiritual things.

The soul is the personality, the emotions, the intellect, the will, the immediate awareness of ourselves and our surroundings.

Both spirit and soul and body have the same purpose towards God.

 

[Diserner]

Are you saying that they do have a literal soul in union with their Deity?

Every person has a soul.

By definition.

 

[synergy]

Every person has a soul.

By definition.

The subject is God, not humans. Does God have a soul?

 

[Diserner]

The subject is God, not humans. Does God have a soul?

Is God a person??????

 

[civic]

Is God a person??????

Is mans person identical to Gods person ?

 

[synergy]

Is God a person??????

God is three Persons. The subject of the conversation was God, not humans.

 

[Diserner]

That was a yes or no question.

If you want to change the definition of person, it might behoove you to say that up front.

 

[Diserner]

Is mans person identical to Gods person ?

Let's just say man is a wee little itty bitty person.

And God is a huge big giant infinite person.

And they are both a person.

 

[Johann]

Is God a person??????

Johan,

Thank you for the question. It depends what you mean by human person?

If by human person you mean - did he have a human body, soul, spirit like us,;and did he walk, talk, eat, sleep and feel like us; and was he born, grew up, and died like us, then ... yes, he was a full man, yet without sin (which is not necessary for being a man).

If by human person you are using the theological meaning of 'person' as his identity and existence, then, no.

He was a divine person, because he existed before he was a man, and his identity is associated with his divine being before the incarnation. In this way, 'who' is Jesus is separate from 'what' is Jesus.

The person is separate from the substance. His person existed before his humanity. The Word, the Son of God, put on flesh, made in the likeness of man, added human nature to himself (his person). The traditional teaching of this is to say that Jesus is now one person with two natures (divine and human). His person existed before his incarnation, but since his incarnation he is both fully God AND fully man. This is why the earthly ministry of Jesus was all about revealing WHO he was, because what he was was obvious to anyone who saw him in the flesh. They saw a man. But when they learned his true identity (his true person) was divine as the Son of God, they worshipped him.

Hope this helps,

Justin Johnson
www.graceambassadors.com

"I declare unto you the gospel... by which also ye are saved... that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Justin, my pastor and mentor.
And Utley-in the council of many there is safety.

 

[Diserner]

The person is separate from the substance. His person existed before his humanity. The Word, the Son of God, put on flesh, made in the likeness of man, added human nature to himself (his person). The traditional teaching of this is to say that Jesus is now one person with two natures (divine and human). His person existed before his incarnation, but since his incarnation he is both fully God AND fully man. This is why the earthly ministry of Jesus was all about revealing WHO he was, because what he was was obvious to anyone who saw him in the flesh. They saw a man. But when they learned his true identity (his true person) was divine as the Son of God, they worshipped him.

Man knows how to toe the theological line like a champ.

*Tips my theological hat.*

Fully man.

Think.... fully... about that term.

Fully man.

FULLY man.

If you leave off the mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving is your tummy fully?

If you leave fill your gas tank half-way is it fully?

If you chuckle at a joke, was it funny fully?

Does fully mean something's left out?

Fully.

Man.

 

[atpollard]

Yes but we were talking about the Father regarding anthropomorphic language

Oh, THAT’s an animal of a different color. Nope, the Sistine Chapel is not an accurate depiction of God the Father (nor is Morgan Freeman in Bruce Almighty). God the Father is SPIRIT, and those who worship Him will worship Him in spirit and truth.

[although there was that one incident with Moses, but I prefer to think of anthropomorphic symbolism over Moses hiding in a crevice, peaking between the Father’s fingers to catch a glimpse of the Father’s naked bottom.]

 

[praise_yeshua]

Man knows how to toe the theological line like a champ.

*Tips my theological hat.*

Fully man.

Think.... fully... about that term.

Fully man.

FULLY man.

If you leave off the mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving is your tummy fully?

If you leave fill your gas tank half-way is it fully?

If you chuckle at a joke, was it funny fully?

Does fully mean something's left out?

Fully.

Man.

I asked you earlier about the FACT that Christ was not sinful. In this, He is different than a man. However, you refuse to recognize this.

Why?

You readily admit that Jesus Christ was not sinful, yet you insist that He is a human person.

A human person is peccable. Able to sin and exercise his own will contrary to God.

Christ is not a human Person. He is Impeccable and acts always according to His own character. It is an issue of Character.

Thusly, you have your answer.

 

[Diserner]

Oh, THAT’s an animal of a different color. Nope, the Sistine Chapel is not an accurate depiction of God the Father (nor is Morgan Freeman in Bruce Almighty). God the Father is SPIRIT, and those who worship Him will worship Him in spirit and truth.

[although there was that one incident with Moses, but I prefer to think of anthropomorphic symbolism over Moses hiding in a crevice, peaking between the Father’s fingers to catch a glimpse of the Father’s naked bottom.]

Blasphemous.

In all the best ways.

Now weigh in on the soul issue.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Oh, THAT’s an animal of a different color. Nope, the Sistine Chapel is not an accurate depiction of God the Father (nor is Morgan Freeman in Bruce Almighty). God the Father is SPIRIT, and those who worship Him will worship Him in spirit and truth.

[although there was that one incident with Moses, but I prefer to think of anthropomorphic symbolism over Moses hiding in a crevice, peaking between the Father’s fingers to catch a glimpse of the Father’s naked bottom.]

retracted.... I misunderstood you.

 

[Diserner]

insist that He is a human person.

Crazy, isn't it.

Thinking Jesus is a human person?

Absolutely insane stuff.


Able to sin doesn't mean HAVE to sin; free will doesn't mean you HAVE to sin.

Thus the human nature is not by default necessity sinful, but rather has changed now because of Adam.

So Adam was a human nature not compelled to sin, but who sinned freely.

 

[atpollard]

Now weigh in on the soul issue.

Ok. But I am coming into the conversation near post 1000 and on page 50.
Can I get a “Reader’s Digest” version of what the SOUL ISSUE is?

In general, I am in favor of souls … they are good things to have.
(Pets do not have souls.)

 

[civic]

Oh, THAT’s an animal of a different color. Nope, the Sistine Chapel is not an accurate depiction of God the Father (nor is Morgan Freeman in Bruce Almighty). God the Father is SPIRIT, and those who worship Him will worship Him in spirit and truth.

[although there was that one incident with Moses, but I prefer to think of anthropomorphic symbolism over Moses hiding in a crevice, peaking between the Father’s fingers to catch a glimpse of the Father’s naked bottom.]

Amen. Jesus makes a point that no one has seen the Father except Himself and that He is the invisible God. So do the Apostle’s.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Col 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

1 Tim 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Tim 6:13-16
I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.


1 John 4:12
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Crazy, isn't it.

Thinking Jesus is a human person?

Absolutely insane stuff.


Able to sin doesn't mean HAVE to sin; free will doesn't mean you HAVE to sin.

Thus the human nature is not by default necessity sinful, but rather has changed now because of Adam.

So Adam was a human nature not compelled to sin, but who sinned freely.

Brother you're not dealing with what I said. How can you ignore this fact?