The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

[GeneZ]

4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

That is good, but with one caveat..

While on earth, and having successfully making Himself to be temporarily as a man?
He was (because he made himself to be a man) not knowing all things.

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even
the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." Matthew 24:36​

Once we can understand how the Son can will Himself into a state to function solely in His Soul?
We will then be able to understand how God was able to create all men without creating anyone to be doomed to Hell.

Its important to know.

And, it might shake some Calvinists out of the trap of their own making that snapped down on them.


grace and peace ..............

 

[GeneZ]

Scripture please?

...?

"God is not a bird."

"How do you know? Scripture please!"



We do have Scripture for what is so.

Only the Lord God of Israel said He possesses a Soul.

I cited the Scripture from the Torah for you to review.

 

[civic]

That is good, but with one caveat..

While on earth, and having successfully making Himself to be temporarily as a man?
He was (because he made himself to be a man) not knowing all things.

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even ​

the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." Matthew 24:36​

Once we can understand how the Son can will Himself into a state to function solely in His Soul?
We will then be able to understand how God was able to create all men without creating anyone to be doomed to Hell.

Its important to know.

And, it might shake some Calvinists out of the trap of their own making that snapped down on them.


grace and peace ..............

I’m not a Calvinist

 

[sawdust]

No, this is not correct.

Animals and angels also have souls.

Notice here:

7 But, in very deed, ask, I pray thee, the beasts, and they will teach thee, and the bird of the heavens, and it will tell thee;
8 Or address the earth, and it will teach thee, and the fishes of the sea, will recount it to thee:
9 Who knoweth not, among all these, that, the hand of Yahweh, hath done this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the spirit of all the flesh of men. (Job 12:7-10 ROT)

Notice here in this passage that every living thing has a soul.

But only humans are described as having "spirit."

Within the context of what we were talking about ie. human souls, our human life is found in our soul. Animal life is found in their blood. While they have soul, they do not have a soul created in the image and likeness of God.

If you want to include everything that has soul then you could say the basis of soul is consciousness. Everything that has soul has awareness of it's environment to varying degrees.

But that was not the context of my statement. The context was the difference between Deity and humanity. Deity is Spirit, humanity is soul. Our soul is the essence of our humanity.

 

[civic]

Within the context of what we were talking about ie. human souls, our human life is found in our soul. Animal life is found in their blood. While they have soul, they do not have a soul created in the image and likeness of God.

If you want to include everything that has soul then you could say the basis of soul is consciousness. Everything that has soul has awareness of it's environment to varying degrees.

But that was not the context of my statement. The context was the difference between Deity and humanity. Deity is Spirit, humanity is soul. Our soul is the essence of our humanity.

So God was human before the conception in Mary’s womb .

Things that make you go hmmmm

 

[sawdust]

When the eternal divine Word was made flesh, he did not stop being God. He started also being human at the same time. From that point forward he was fully God with every attribute of deity, and he was fully man with every attribute of humanity. Jesus Christ is both man and God in one person.

If he did not have a second nature until a point in time, how do you explain Him being unchanging? Based on the above, He is a person with one nature until a point in time and then becomes a person with two natures?

The scriptures say nothing about Him needing a soul or spirit to enter this world, only a body.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[Diserner]

Based on the above, He is a person with one nature until a point in time and then becomes a person with two natures?

Or maybe the simpler solution, God can change.

And theologians using their puny minds instead of the Bible slapped labels on God from their own understanding.

 

[Johann]

Or maybe the simpler solution, God can change.

And theologians using their puny minds instead of the Bible slapped labels on God from their own understanding.

If he did not have a second nature until a point in time, how do you explain Him being unchanging? Based on the above, He is a person with one nature until a point in time and then becomes a person with two natures?

The scriptures say nothing about Him needing a soul or spirit to enter this world, only a body.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

How about listening-no harm.

Audio: The Natures of Christ – Deity

Taught by Justin Johnson on Sunday, January 8th, 2012.


Download MP3 | Download Outline

Description:

The dual natures of Jesus is essential to implement God’s purpose in the gospel of the grace of God. Christ could not die unless he was a man, yet Christ could not die for our sins unless he was God. Learn about the true nature of God and how if Jesus was God at all he had to be fully God and always God.

This is the first part of a series on the Natures of Jesus Christ.

Topical Index Page

Related Posts:
- The Natures of Christ – Humanity
- The Natures of Christ – Problem Verses
- The Natures of Christ
- Mark 13:32 and the Deity of Christ
- Heresies About the Incarnation
- Sin and Your Identity in Christ

The Natures of Christ

graceambassadors.com

I think I have posted 4 or 5 times on this fundamental doctrine concerning the Deity and nature of Christ Jesus and links given-faith comes by hearing-but no one is willing to give it a listen-the onus is now on you to give it a listen and tell me what you think brother.

If some here have listened there would have been a better understanding on this topic which is crucial for our salvation. The links are full of Scriptures, rightly dividing..
God bless
J

An aside-for every Scripture reference given, see the Greek and morphological syntax-

 

[sawdust]

So God was human before the conception in Mary’s womb .

Things that make you go hmmmm

God the Son was, is and will always be two natures in one Divine person.

 

[sawdust]

Or maybe the simpler solution, God can change.

And theologians using their puny minds instead of the Bible slapped labels on God from their own understanding.

Then that would make God mutable. How do you fully trust a person who changes from time to time?

 

[Diserner]

Then that would make God mutable. How do you fully trust a person who changes from time to time?

You're equivocating two different kinds of change.

If God never changed, he could never change his decision, or change his mind—he could never forgive.

We are not talking about a change in character at all—but a change in manifestation.

 

[Johann]

God the Son was, is and will always be two natures in one Divine person.

God the Huios was "human" prior to His incarnation? Or am I reading this wrong?

 

[GeneZ]

I’m not a Calvinist

I was not directing that towards you........

Calvinists have a dilemma when it comes to their rigid concept of predestination concerning souls going to Hell.
How can one show a Calvinist that God was free to create all souls equally? Without knowing who will reject Him?
When they are rigid about always bold stamping sovereign omniscience over their world?

God had no problem in creating man. By making sure all all souls were created *through* Christ.
The same Son who can manifest Himself (at his will) to function solely in his humanity! Which He
proved He could do in the Incarnation.

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord.
I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.
This command I received from my Father.” John 10:17-18​

Once we understand how the Son has the ability to manifest Himself as humanity (by "laying down" his
powers of Deity).. by willing to do so? We then can begin to understand how He revealed this about Himself
in the Incarnation.

Then we can begin to understand how the Son was able to create in his mind every soul to be created
without knowing how they would choose for, or against, God. Its was the full Trinity in its power that caused
what He created in his mind to become created and made manifest in time..

By knowing that? It makes no one going to Hell to be with excuse to be calling God unfair for choosing
to create them, in knowing full well God created them to go to Hell... That is why all had to be created
THROUGH the Son who has the ability to deny Himself of functioning in omniscience!

In other words.. God is not insanely cruel as Calvinists have "God's sovereignty" making Him out to be...

That's why its imperative for us to come to understand the function of How the Son has the ability control how his humanity is to operate.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible ​

and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him. " Colossians 1:16 NKJV​

The Father and Holy Spirit delegated over to the Son (who could switch into humanity) the job of conceiving and designing and creating us.


In the absolute eternal purity of the Son's humanity, the Son was the one who created all men to love and worship God, as His own humanity adores and worships God.

Once He was finished creating all men? He went to being omniscient. That is when He knew He was to go to the Cross to buy back all those who would be lost in the Fall.


Its time to know these truths.... because we need to know how to answer all men.

Freely I was given. Freely I just gave.



grace and peace .......................

 

[GeneZ]

You're equivocating two different kinds of change.

If God never changed, he could never change his decision, or change his mind—he could never forgive.

We are not talking about a change in character at all—but a change in manifestation.

If God never changed there could be no Incarnation.

 

[Diserner]

If God never changed there could be no Incarnation.

Exactly, very true.

Good point.

 

[GeneZ]

God the Huios was "human" prior to His incarnation? Or am I reading this wrong?

If I may please jump in.....

Our soul is what makes us human.

Being a spirit, is what makes angels angelic, and not human.

He was not manifested as a man in bodily form prior to the Incarnation.
But, was always having a soul. Always having humanity.

Having a soul that had his life not in a body. But, his life "in God."

In Christ.... grace and peace ................

 

[civic]

God the Son was, is and will always be two natures in one Divine person.

False that’s unbiblical. The 2nd nature was assumed at the conception in Mary’s womb. You are actually denying the Virgin Birth and His conception via the Holy Spirit. You are also denying the doctrine of the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union and numerous other doctrines of the Christian faith.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

I was not directing that towards you........

Calvinists have a dilemma when it comes to their rigid concept of predestination concerning souls going to Hell.
How can one show a Calvinist that God was free to create all souls equally? Without knowing who will reject Him?
When they are rigid about always bold stamping sovereign omniscience over their world?

God had no problem in creating man. By making sure all all souls were created *through* Christ.
The same Son who can manifest Himself (at his will) to function solely in his humanity! Which He
proved He could do in the Incarnation.

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord.
I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.
This command I received from my Father.” John 10:17-18​

Once we understand how the Son has the ability to manifest Himself as humanity (by "laying down" his
powers of Deity).. by willing to do so? We then can begin to understand how He revealed this about Himself
in the Incarnation.

Then we can begin to understand how the Son was able to create in his mind every soul to be created
without knowing how they would choose for, or against, God. Its was the full Trinity in its power that caused
what He created in his mind to become created and made manifest in time..

By knowing that? It makes no one going to Hell to be with excuse to be calling God unfair for choosing
to create them, in knowing full well God created them to go to Hell... That is why all had to be created
THROUGH the Son who has the ability to deny Himself of functioning in omniscience!

In other words.. God is not insanely cruel as Calvinists have "God's sovereignty" making Him out to be...

That's why its imperative for us to come to understand the function of How the Son has the ability control how his humanity is to operate.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible ​

and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. ​

All things were created through Him and for Him. " Colossians 1:16 NKJV​

The Father and Holy Spirit delegated over to the Son (who could switch into humanity) the job of conceiving and designing and creating us.


In the absolute eternal purity of the Son's humanity, the Son was the one who created all men to love and worship God, as His own humanity adores and worships God.

Once He was finished creating all men? He went to being omniscient. That is when He knew He was to go to the Cross to buy back all those who would be lost in the Fall.


Its time to know these truths.... because we need to know how to answer all men.

Freely I was given. Freely I just gave.



grace and peace .......................

God knew who would reject Him it’s called foreknowledge which you have conflated with predestination and determinism.

 

[atpollard]

I’m not a Calvinist

I can vouch for that.
I am a “Calvinist” (as long as “Calvinist” means Particular Baptist - aka TULIP - and not WCF Presbyterian … we don’t sprinkle babies, we baptize believers!)

 

[civic]

I can vouch for that.
I am a “Calvinist” (as long as “Calvinist” means Particular Baptist - aka TULIP - and not WCF Presbyterian … we don’t sprinkle babies, we baptize believers!)

But I was a devout and passionate one for decades. . But I still love my Calvinist brothers in Christ. I won’t hold that against you