The "hearing" game that Calvinists play

[brightfame52]

Sorry Rom 11:32 does not teach what you think

Romans 11:32 (NASB 2020) — 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all.

Read the context

Romans 11:17–23 (NASB 2020) — 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

Whether they believe or not resides with them

All men by nature are consigned, imprisoned in unbelief Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The only way to come out of unbelief is not by mans freewill, but by Gods Sovereign Mercy, and thats only reserved for all the vessels of mercy Paul wrote about in chapter 9 23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

He regenerates them and gives them the Gift of Faith, thats how they come out of unbelief, MERCY

 

[TomL]

All men by nature are consigned, imprisoned in unbelief Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The only way to come out of unbelief is not by mans freewill, but by Gods Sovereign Mercy, and thats only reserved for all the vessels of mercy Paul wrote about in chapter 9 23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

He regenerates them and gives them the Gift of Faith, thats how they come out of unbelief, MERCY

You missed the point of the passage

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
He is not acting to destroy man but to have mercy upon all

He is not locking them up in unbelief

He is not limiting salvation he is expanding it

He considers that all have broken the law that he might justify them by faith. In his mercy he sent Christ to die for all that might be saved through faith in Christ

as he had just revealed

Romans 11:11–23 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Read in context

 

[brightfame52]

You missed the point of the passage

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
He is not acting to destroy man but to have mercy upon all

He is not locking them up in unbelief

He is not limiting salvation he is expanding it

He considers that all have broken the law that he might justify them by faith. In his mercy he sent Christ to die for all that might be saved through faith in Christ

as he had just revealed

Romans 11:11–23 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Read in context

All men by nature are imprisoned in unbelief, but the elect, all of them God will show mercy. Man cant believe God unless God regenerates him by Mercy Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

 

[TomL]

All men by nature are imprisoned in unbelief, but the elect, all of them God will show mercy. Man cant believe God unless God regenerates him by Mercy Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Sorry your theology is not a replacement for scripture

read verse 7 it precedes regeneration and salvation

Titus 3:7 (ESV) — 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

one must believe in Christ to be justified

Acts 13:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry your theology is not a replacement for scripture

read verse 7 it precedes regeneration and salvation

Titus 3:7 (ESV) — 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

one must believe in Christ to be justified

Acts 13:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

All men are imprisoned in unbelief, disobedience. Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Notice who does the concluding, GOD [Active] and the word is sygkleiō:

1. to shut up together, enclose
   
   1. of a shoal of fishes in a net
2. to shut up on all sides, shut up completely

The NKJV reads:
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may have mercy on all.

So how does one get out of the prison house of unbelief ? By his own freewill ? Does his freewill trump what God has done ?

 

[TomL]

All men are imprisoned in unbelief, disobedience. Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Notice who does the concluding, GOD [Active] and the word is sygkleiō:

1. to shut up together, enclose
   
   1. of a shoal of fishes in a net
2. to shut up on all sides, shut up completely

The NKJV reads:
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may have mercy on all.

So how does one get out of the prison house of unbelief ? By his own freewill ? Does his freewill trump what God has done ?

Sorry you still misread the passage.

There is no prison house of unbelief

You missed the point of the passage

Romans 11:32 (ESV) — 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.


32 For God hath concluded them all in disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.

He is not acting to destroy man but to have mercy upon all

He is not locking them up in unbelief

He is not limiting salvation he is expanding it

He considers that all have broken the law that he might justify them by faith. In his mercy he sent Christ to die for all that might be saved through faith in Christ

as he had just revealed

Romans 11:11–23 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Read in context

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry you still misread the passage.

There is no prison house of unbelief

You missed the point of the passage

Romans 11:32 (ESV) — 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.


32 For God hath concluded them all in disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.

He is not acting to destroy man but to have mercy upon all

He is not locking them up in unbelief

He is not limiting salvation he is expanding it

He considers that all have broken the law that he might justify them by faith. In his mercy he sent Christ to die for all that might be saved through faith in Christ

as he had just revealed

Romans 11:11–23 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Read in context

All men are imprisoned in unbelief, and they dont know it.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

There is no prison house of unbelief

What is the prison referred to here sir ? Isa 42:7

To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



What is the prison referred to here sir ? Isa 42:7

To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

The context concerns Christ and who will bring light and truth to those bound up by darkness and sin and set them free

 

[brightfame52]

The context concerns Christ and who will bring light and truth to those bound up by darkness and sin and set them free

I showed you why I believe a person is in the prison of unbelief from scripture, that settles it for me.

 

[TomL]

I showed you why I believe a person is in the prison of unbelief from scripture, that settles it for me.

Um you twisted the scripture

Romans 11:32 (KJV 1900) — 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The aim is not to limit salvation but expand it

How is it it showing mercy to all to prevent all from believing?

All were condemned under the law but the opportunity for salvation by faith was made available to all

 

[brightfame52]

Um you twisted the scripture

Romans 11:32 (KJV 1900) — 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The aim is not to limit salvation but expand it

How is it it showing mercy to all to prevent all from believing?

All were condemned under the law but the opportunity for salvation by faith was made available to all

I showed you why I believe a person is in the prison of unbelief from scripture, that settles it for me.

 

[TomL]

I showed you why I believe a person is in the prison of unbelief from scripture, that settles it for me.

Um you twisted the scripture

Romans 11:32 (KJV 1900) — 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The aim is not to limit salvation but expand it

How is it it showing mercy to all to prevent all from believing?

All were condemned under the law but the opportunity for salvation by faith was made available to all

 

[brightfame52]

Um you twisted the scripture

Romans 11:32 (KJV 1900) — 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The aim is not to limit salvation but expand it

How is it it showing mercy to all to prevent all from believing?

All were condemned under the law but the opportunity for salvation by faith was made available to all

I showed you why I believe a person is in the prison of unbelief from scripture, that settles it for me.

 

[TomL]

I showed you why I believe a person is in the prison of unbelief from scripture, that settles it for me.

You ignored the key portion of the text and address nothing

Um you twisted the scripture

Romans 11:32 (KJV 1900) — 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The aim is not to limit salvation but expand it

How is it it showing mercy to all to prevent all from believing?

All were condemned under the law but the opportunity for salvation by faith was made available to all

 

[civic]

You ignored the key portion of the text and address nothing

Um you twisted the scripture

Romans 11:32 (KJV 1900) — 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The aim is not to limit salvation but expand it

How is it it showing mercy to all to prevent all from believing?

All were condemned under the law but the opportunity for salvation by faith was made available to all

Yes twisted it into a pretzel

 

[synergy]

So how does one get out of the prison house of unbelief ? By his own freewill ? Does his freewill trump what God has done ?

By hearing the word of God and believing it. Read Rom 10:8-13. Regeneration happens after believing in Christ, not before. Calvinism is built on falsehoods.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

 

[civic]

By hearing the word of God and believing it. Read Rom 10:8-13. Regeneration happens after believing in Christ, not before. Calvinism is built on falsehoods.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

It amazes me how they will reverse the order clearly written in the passage that faith precedes life, regeneration, new birth, salvation.

 

[synergy]

It amazes me how they will reverse the order clearly written in the passage that faith precedes life, regeneration, new birth, salvation.

That's all part of the "hearing game" or better still non-hearing game that all Calvinists shamelessly take part in.

 

[civic]

That's all part of the "hearing game" that all Calvinists shamelessly take part in.

It’s why I can now say doctrine can be blinding viewing all scripture through a particular lens.