The Father

[Wrangler]

It means the Messenger Joshua prayed to is God.

LOL. What an absurd claim; OF God is not God.

 

[Fred]

LOL. What an absurd claim; OF God is not God.

What an absurd denial.

Being the proper recipient of prayer demonstrates the Messenger of the Lord is God.

Try not running away from this next time.

 

[Wrangler]

Being the proper recipient of prayer demonstrates the Messenger of the Lord is God.

This is absurd, reversing cause and effect. Someone prayed to me. So, according to you, that is undeniable proof that I am God.

 

[Fred]

This is absurd, reversing cause and effect. Someone prayed to me.

Then that would be an improper use of prayer.

Your argument is really absurd.

 

[Wrangler]

Then that would be an improper use of prayer.

Your argument is really absurd.

No. It is not an improper use of prayer. You are drawing an improper conclusion or significance of prayer. True worship will worship the Father (only) is what Scripture says.

You are taking the converse. Scripture does NOT say any prayer or worship means the object of the prayer or worship is God!


But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.
John 4:23

 

[Fred]

No. It is not an improper use of prayer.

It is because you are not God, so therefore you are not the proper recipient of prayer.

True worship will worship the Father (only) is what Scripture says.

The word "only" was added by you.
It is NOT found in the passage you are referring to.

The same Greek word for "worship" is properly used in reference to Jesus in John 9:38.

 

[Wrangler]

The word "only" was added by you.

That's right. It was added by me for emphasis. It does not change anything one little bit.

Your taking the converse of Scripture has been exposed for the lie that it is.

• True worship will worship the Father (only) is what Scripture says.
• Scripture does NOT say any prayer or worship means the object of the prayer or worship is God!

 

[Fred]

That's right. It was added by me for emphasis.

Which is deceptive.
This isn't surprising.

It does not change anything one little bit.

Sure it does.
See John 9:38.

Scripture does NOT say any prayer or worship means the object of the prayer or worship is God!

Strawman.
You've been shown your error more than once, but because your false doctrine is refuted you keep regurgitating it.

 

[Wrangler]

Which is deceptive.

Emphasizing is not deceiving.

 

[Fred]

Emphasizing is not deceiving.

It is when you add a word which does not appear in the Bible to help you in your cause of false doctrine.

 

[Keiw1]

God the Father, you mean.
That's true., as God the Son (Emmanuel) was just water baptized.

Jesus = Emmanuel = ""God with us"", = "the Word became FLESH (a human), and the Word is John 1.... The pre-incarnate "Word was God".

Yes Gods image, Gods will, came through Jesus. That is how God was with us.

 

[Keiw1]

In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so obedience to it is the way to worship the Father in spirit and in truth, though it also the way to worship the Son in spirit and in truth, so if someone is obeying the Mosaic Law, then what difference does it make for them to label what they are doing as worshiping the Father, as worshiping the Son, or if they do not give a label to what they are doing?

No created being gets worship. Jesus has a mortal mother. Mortals killed Jesus. Mortals cannot kill God.

 

[Keiw1]

Which means that any Unitarian who prays to Jesus is a deceiver.

The Watchtower: As the true and living God, Jehovah wants us to pray to Him, not to someone else. Prayer is part of our worship and for this reason should be directed only to the Creator, Jehovah. (Matt. 4:10) (How to Pray and Be Heard by God, May 15, 1969, page 293)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1969361

In fact, according to what the JW's believe those Unitarians who pray to Jesus can be assured that their prayers aren't even heard.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/john-17-3-what-jesus-taught.693/page-6#post-18793

stop deceiving folks Fred--JW,s DO NOT give worship to Jesus.

 

[Keiw1]

In Psalm 83:13, Jehovah is referred to as "my God."
That Thomas properly referred to Jesus as "my God" in John 20:28 demonstrates Thomas believed Jesus is Jehovah (Psalm 83:13, 18).

The words my God aren't in Psalm 83:18

 

[Keiw1]

The same Greek word for "worship" is properly used in reference to the Lord Jesus in John 9:38.

Watch Tower Reprints: And "Jesus heard that they had cast him out...and He found him," (vs. 35,) and became his teacher personally, and the man "worshiped Him." So with you, the Lord will hear of your witness for Him, and when you are separated from the nominal church--"Babylon"--your experience will be that Jesus himself will teach you and show you marvelous things of His truth and plan. And then you can indeed worship HIM-- in spirit and in truth, and no longer worship the creeds of men. Jesus' explanation of our trial in receiving him will be explained to us as to him: "For judgment (a trial) am I come into this world that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind." (vs. 39.) (By and By He is Offended, April 1881, Vol. 2, No. 10, page 214)

The Watchtower: The man that had been sightless from birth and whom Jesus had healed said in answer to the question, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" "Lord, I believe," and then worshiped Jesus. (Judgment Day For Jehovah's Vindication, June 15, 1947, Vol. 68, No. 12, page 185)

The boldface above is mine.

Misuse of Proskenaue to give worship to one who has a God.( John 20:17) Oh i forgot, you outright refuse to believe Jesus over your false reasonings. Was It God who sent you with truth Fred or was it Jesus whom God sent? Then who should be believed first?

 

[Fred]

Misuse of Proskenaue to give worship to one who has a God.( John 20:17) Oh i forgot,

Yes, you did forget (again) that it is properly rendered unto Jesus in John 9:38.

 

[Fred]

The words my God aren't in Psalm 83:18

Strawman.

 

[Fred]

stop deceiving folks Fred--JW,s DO NOT give worship to Jesus.

It's funny using their own quotes against them.

 

[101G]

Here are undeniable facts of Israelite true God worship history= From Moses on up until this very day, they teach, serve and worship the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah)--deceivers say otherwise. That means when Jesus and every bible writer attended those places of worship, they were taught, served and worshipped a single being God= YHWH(Jehovah) = undeniable fact of reality. They did not refute that God, they taught that God= The Father. At John 17:3 Jesus teaches-The one who sent him= THE ONLY TRUE GOD-- Paul teaches-1Cor 8:6-There is one God to all=the Father.

John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." notice the conjunction "AND" in the verse. conjunction connect right. now this
James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

is God "AND" the Father the same one person here, as God "AND" Jesus the Christ in John 17:3. yes or no?

 

[Keiw1]

John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." notice the conjunction "AND" in the verse. conjunction connect right. now this
James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

is God "AND" the Father the same one person here, as God "AND" Jesus the Christ in John 17:3. yes or no?

And is a separator. The only true God= Father sent Jesus-2 separate beings-One is God=The sender, one is Jesus= the sent.