The Calvinists misunderstanding of the New Birth as taught by Jesus to Nicodemus

[brightfame52]

If a person must be born again by the Spirit before they can see the Kingdom of God, hence they must be born again before they can see the King of that Kingdom Jn 3:3-7

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Now Jesus is the King of that Kingdom, a Spiritual Kingdom n 18:33-37

33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?

34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?

35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

 

[Kampioen]

If a person must be born again by the Spirit before they can see the Kingdom of God, hence they must be born again before they can see the King of that Kingdom Jn 3:3-7

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Now Jesus is the King of that Kingdom, a Spiritual Kingdom n 18:33-37

33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?

34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?

35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

That's all true. One must be born again to see and enter the Kingdom of God. But one must first seek to be saved, and know how. They don't just end up saved. ...

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

 

[brightfame52]

That's all true. One must be born again to see and enter the Kingdom of God. But one must first seek to be saved, and know how. They don't just end up saved. ...

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

One needs to be born again to seek after God, otherwise none seek after the True God, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[Jim]

One needs to be born again to seek after God, otherwise none seek after the True God, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

You obviously do not understand what Paul is talking about in Romans 3. That in itself is not so bad. Not bothering to even attempt to study to know and understand the message that Paul is presenting in Romans 3 is bad. There is nothing in Chapter 3 that says anything about being born again or one who has been born again. It simply says, "none understands". That includes the whole of humanity, both Jews and Gentiles. That includes you @brightfame52. Paul is not making any distinction there between saved and not saved. Given that fact, perhaps you should spend some time trying to determine what Paul, through the Holy Spirit, is actually saying there. As it is you obviously do not know.

 

[civic]

You obviously do not understand what Paul is talking about in Romans 3. That in itself is not so bad. Not bothering to even attempt to study to know and understand the message that Paul is presenting in Romans 3 is bad. There is nothing in Chapter 3 that says anything about being born again or one who has been born again. It simply says, "none understands". That includes the whole of humanity, both Jews and Gentiles. That includes you @brightfame52. Paul is not making any distinction there between saved and not saved. Given that fact, perhaps you should spend some time trying to determine what Paul, through the Holy Spirit, is actually saying there. As it is you obviously do not know.

Amen

 

[brightfame52]

@Jim

You obviously do not understand what Paul is talking about in Romans 3.

Man by nature, in our fallen condition, being under the power of sin is highlighted Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The word under in Vs 9 as in under sin is the greek hypo:
subject to the power of, any person or thing:
We naturally being spiritually dead to God are under the power of sin and darkness, jew and gentile
"Under sin - Sinners. Under the power and dominion of sin."
Gill writes:

that both Jews and Gentiles are under sin; under the power and guilt of sin, and a sentence of condemnation for it; which is equally true of the Jews, who were no better than the Gentiles, for being Abraham's seed, for being circumcised, for having the ceremonial law, and other outward privileges; for they were equally born in sin, and by practice sinners, as the Gentiles: and this is true of God's elect in all nations, who are no better by nature, by birth, than others; as deserving of the wrath of God as the rest; no better in their tempers and, dispositions, or in the endowments of their minds, or outward circumstances of life; nor better qualified to receive and improve the grace of God bestowed on them, than others.

 

[Kampioen]

One needs to be born again to seek after God, otherwise none seek after the True God, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

The man didn't even know God or even the gospel or how to be saved. Are you saying He was already born again and sees God?

But there are two contexts of seeking. ...

One is seeking to be saved ie Acts 16:30, ...

and one is an already saved person seeking more of God, which neither Rom 3:11 nor Acts 16:30 are.

Other unsaved also did seek after salvation. ...

Acts 13:42 (KJV) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles *besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should *seek the Lord*, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

The following are already saved or righteous people seeking more. This is the seeking that unsaved persons in Rom 3:11 did not have. ...

Hebrews 13:14 (KJV) For here have we no continuing city, but *we seek* one to come.

Philippians 2:12 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hebrews 11:10 (KJV) For he **looked for** a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Isaiah 51:1 (KJV) Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that *seek* the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.

Isaiah 26:9 (KJV) With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will *I seek* thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

The man didn't even know God or even the gospel or how to be saved. Are you saying He was already born again and sees God?

But there are two contexts of seeking. ...

One is seeking to be saved ie Acts 16:30, ...

and one is an already saved person seeking more of God, which neither Rom 3:11 nor Acts 16:30 are.

Other unsaved also did seek after salvation. ...

Acts 13:42 (KJV) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles *besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should *seek the Lord*, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

The following are already saved or righteous people seeking more. This is the seeking that unsaved persons in Rom 3:11 did not have. ...

Hebrews 13:14 (KJV) For here have we no continuing city, but *we seek* one to come.

Philippians 2:12 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hebrews 11:10 (KJV) For he **looked for** a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Isaiah 51:1 (KJV) Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that *seek* the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.

Isaiah 26:9 (KJV) With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will *I seek* thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

It doesnt matter who it is, one needs to be born again to believe, even the Jailor. One needs to be from above to seek God, men dont see k God by nature, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why we must first be born again or regenerated first.

 

[Kampioen]

It doesnt matter who it is, one needs to be born again to believe, even the Jailor. One needs to be from above to seek God, men dont see k God by nature, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why we must first be born again or regenerated first.

Then why was the jailor seeking salvation and asking how if he was supposedly already born again and believes?

He was told to believe in the next line after he asked how, proving that he didn't believe while he was seeking.

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 16:31 (KJV) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Apparently the none seek is an original group but by God working on them some may seek, while yet unsaved.

That is the conclusion that reconciles scriptures.

 

[brightfame52]

@Kampioen

Then why was the jailor seeking salvation and asking how if he was supposedly already born again and believes

The jailor was now born again, so he was now seeking God,he had soul concerns, and God had His Messengers there to guide him, disciple him, he was ready spiritually to be taught the things of God as a newborn babe, so it says one verse later Vs 32

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

 

[Jim]

It doesnt matter who it is, one needs to be born again to believe, even the Jailor. One needs to be from above to seek God, men dont see k God by nature, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why we must first be born again or regenerated first.

But they do understand the need to be saved even if they have no idea of how that might happen. We know that to be true simply by looking at the world. Nearly every tribe, nation, or society have some "religion" that seeks to solve the problem of what happens after death. It seems to be an inherent thought in all of humanity that there is something beyond this life. They are searching for that. The scriptures answer that search. It is found in the gospel message about God and Jesus Christ as the Messiah. The presentation in Romans 3:21-31 of the righteousness of God through faith is what follows Paul's discussion of the ineffectiveness of the law in Romans 3:9-20. It is received through faith. It is through faith that one is regenerated.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Being sealed with the promised Holy Spirit occurs at the instant when one is born again, born of water and Spirit.

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Being dead in trespasses and then made alive again by God together with Christ is regeneration.

 

[civic]

Then why was the jailor seeking salvation and asking how if he was supposedly already born again and believes?

He was told to believe in the next line after he asked how, proving that he didn't believe while he was seeking.

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 16:31 (KJV) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Apparently the none seek is an original group but by God working on them some may seek, while yet unsaved.

That is the conclusion that reconciles scriptures.

Amen

 

[civic]

But they do understand the need to be saved even if they have no idea of how that might happen. We know that to be true simply by looking at the world. Nearly every tribe, nation, or society have some "religion" that seeks to solve the problem of what happens after death. It seems to be an inherent thought in all of humanity that there is something beyond this life. They are searching for that. The scriptures answer that search. It is found in the gospel message about God and Jesus Christ as the Messiah. The presentation in Romans 3:21-31 of the righteousness of God through faith is what follows Paul's discussion of the ineffectiveness of the law in Romans 3:9-20. It is received through faith. It is through faith that one is regenerated.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Being sealed with the promised Holy Spirit occurs at the instant when one is born again, born of water and Spirit.

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Being dead in trespasses and then made alive again by God together with Christ is regeneration.

yes and this happens after we believe and receive the message of the gospel which is the Person and work of Christ for our salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

But they do understand the need to be saved even if they have no idea of how that might happen. We know that to be true simply by looking at the world. Nearly every tribe, nation, or society have some "religion" that seeks to solve the problem of what happens after death. It seems to be an inherent thought in all of humanity that there is something beyond this life. They are searching for that. The scriptures answer that search. It is found in the gospel message about God and Jesus Christ as the Messiah. The presentation in Romans 3:21-31 of the righteousness of God through faith is what follows Paul's discussion of the ineffectiveness of the law in Romans 3:9-20. It is received through faith. It is through faith that one is regenerated.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Being sealed with the promised Holy Spirit occurs at the instant when one is born again, born of water and Spirit.

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Being dead in trespasses and then made alive again by God together with Christ is regeneration.

Men dont seek God by nature, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why we must first be born again or regenerated first.

Rom 3 is speaking about the True God man doesnt seek, yet man naturally is very religious and will seek after false gods, but not the True God, Acts 17 points that out 22-23

22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

 

[Jim]

Men dont seek God by nature, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why we must first be born again or regenerated first.

Rom 3 is speaking about the True God man doesnt seek, yet man naturally is very religious and will seek after false gods, but not the True God, Acts 17 points that out 22-23

22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

It was/is God of the Bible that they do not understand or seek after. They have always sought after a "god" of sorts. It is the Bible that reveals the true God to all. Some receive and accept God's word and come to believe in Him, love Him for who He is and are regenerated; some do not. Those who do are foreknown and are predestined, i.e., chosen and numbered among the elect.

 

[brightfame52]

@Jim

It was/is God of the Bible that they do not understand or seek after.

Thats correct !

. They have always sought after a "god" of sorts.

Thats correct

It is the Bible that reveals the true God to all.

False

Some receive and accept God's word and come to believe in Him,

False, only the regenerate believe Gods word,otherwise men dont seek after God, dont desire the True God,dontmatterhowmanybibles they have or read or hear sermons from.

 

[Jim]

False, only the regenerate believe Gods word,otherwise men dont seek after God, dont desire the True God,dontmatterhowmanybibles they have or read or hear sermons from.

It doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible. That is Reformed Theology heresy.

 

[civic]

It doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible. That is Reformed Theology heresy.

Ditto

 

[brightfame52]

It doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible. That is Reformed Theology heresy.

Don't mean nothing. Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[Kampioen]

Men dont seek God by nature, ask Paul Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why we must first be born again or regenerated first.

Rom 3 is speaking about the True God man doesnt seek, yet man naturally is very religious and will seek after false gods, but not the True God, Acts 17 points that out 22-23

22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

Men don't seek God naturally but if they have grace they might. But seeking doesn't mean they are already born again. They could resist.

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should *seek* the Lord, if *haply* they might *feel after him*, and find him, though he be *not far* from every one of us: