brightfame52
Active Member
Thats you
The New birth comes after hearing/believing the gospel
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Anyone can see you do not address scripture contrary to your view.
One must have faith to be regenerated.
One must receive the Spirit through faith.
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
And that your doctrine is the opposite of scripture.
Is this Cornelius? ...
Acts 11:14 **Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved**.
Acts 10:3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, *Cornelius*.
What a convoluted claim.
You have Cornelius regenerated, saved but ignorant of and unbelieving of the gospel.
This is totally contrary to scripture.
brightfame52
Active Member
Cornelius was saved, regenerated, feared God and was accepted by God, he and his prayers which proves he already had faith Acts 10
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
A man that fears God is saved
Was Job saved ? Job 1:8
And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Ps 61 5
For thou, O God, hast heard my vows: thou hast given me the heritage of those that fear thy name.
Prov 2:5-6
5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
God sent Peter to Cornelius to give him wisdom, knowledge and understanding
To show him His Covenant of Salvation Ps 25 14
14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
brightfame52
Active Member
No its not. A Man who fears God is saved.
But my question was, is this Cornelius? ...
Acts 11:14 **Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved**.
Acts 10:3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, *Cornelius*.
atpollard
Active Member
If I can offer an observation (I leave @brightfame52 to explain what he meant ... however I can offer an observation from scripture) ...
The wording is incredibly clumsy and very sloppy, but it points to a scriptural reality more complex than the simple binary "flip a switch" between LOST and SAVED that most debates prefer (irrespective of whether the specific poster is arguing that GOD has flipped the switch or HUMAN FREE WILL TO BELIEVE has flipped the switch.) Let us examine Lydia for a moment:
[the paragraph containing the complete story] Acts 16:11-15 [NASB]
So after setting sail from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and on the following [day] to Neapolis; and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of Macedonia, a [Roman] colony; and we were spending some days in this city. And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were thinking that there was a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled. A woman named Lydia was listening; [she was] a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira, [and] a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. Now when she and her household had been baptized, she urged [us,] saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.
What was the status of Lydia after she was a "worshiper of God" and after "the Lord opened her heart" and BEFORE she "responded"?
We could go back and look at Cornelius and ponder the same thing as Peter was walking to Cornelius house to deliver God's appointed message.
"LOST" seems too harsh and "SAVED" seems too soon. God was at work. His Holy Spirit was at work. Their human heart/mind/faith was at work (being transformed).
A little "convoluted claiming" seems appropriate for what my Lutheran brothers identify as the MYSTERY. Is "salvation" of God (yes) and is "salvation" of men (yes) and is that a contradiction (no, it is a mystery ... God's mystery just as His word states it).
God's word to Cornelius
Acts 11:14 (NASB 95) — 14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’
You are arguing against the word of God once again.
New Testament reality
Matt 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
If not saved how can one be anything but lost.
brightfame52
Active Member
That's right, they shall be saved. Notice it doesn't say thou shalt get saved, Cornelious was already saved, but hearing and believing the Gospel gave him assurance and evidence that he is saved. Just remember its a big difference in saying thou shalt get saved and though shall be saved. I discussed that before here:
Very poor understandingThat's right, they shall be saved. Notice it doesn't say thou shalt get saved, Cornelious was already saved, but hearing and believing the Gospel gave him assurance and evidence that he is saved. Just remember its a big difference in saying thou shalt get saved and though shall be saved. I discussed that before here:
Romans 10:9–10 (NASB 95) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
One is not saved until one believes in Christ
Gramatically "they will be saved" is future.
And the phrase "resulting in salvation" shows salvation is the result of confessing Christ.
Cornelius had not known Christ.
Through Christ
Acts 10:43 (NASB 95) — 43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”
And it was not until Cornelius believed in Christ that he was baptized in the Spirit and saved
Acts 11:13–18 (NASB 95) — 13 And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying, ‘Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here; 14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”
brightfame52
Active Member
No its not, otherwise you have man doing in order to get saved. Thats apostate works salvation
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats why God sent him the Gospel to inform him of who saved him. We know he was already saved and had faith in the True God, and worked righteousness. No man can do righteousness as he did unless born of God 1 Jn 2 29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Cornelius worked righteousness before he ever met Peter with the Gospel #1 Acts 10:2,4
A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
#2 Acts 10:34,35
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
brightfame52
Active Member
Once again, there is no evidence Cornelius had fully known and believed in Christ
And
Acts 11:14 (NASB 95) — 14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’
Scripture shows Cornelius's salvation is future tense.
Sorry, without faith in Christ, there is no salvation.
John 3:16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Rom 3:22–24 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Yeah, it is.
You ignore scripture, exhibiting poor understanding.
Romans 10:9–10 (NASB 95) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
One is not saved until one believes in Christ
Gramatically "they will be saved" is future.
brightfame52
Active Member
Did you read the post ? If you did, you just cant see the truth
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