The Calvinists eisegesis of John 6:55

[TibiasDad]

No one says we do make a choice.

In your system of thought, which choice comes first, God’s predetermining choice or our choice?

Are you free to act outside the sovereignty of God?

If God’s sovereignty allows it, yes! God created us in his image and after his likeness. Part of that image is sovereignty itself. God gave man the sovereignty of free will choice, just as God can freely choose to do as he pleases.

God withholds his right to interfere with man’s decisions, thus allowing man to go against God’s wishes, as man chooses of his own accord and desire.

If your once save always saved, are you free to walk away?

I am a Wesleyan in my theological perspective, and thus do not hold to OSAS or ES, so yes, I am free to walk away. Thus, the various and frequent calls in scripture to persevere in our faith in spite of our trials and tribulations encountered in our journey.

Doug

 

[Presby02]

In your system of thought, which choice comes first, God’s predetermining choice or our choice?


If God’s sovereignty allows it, yes! God created us in his image and after his likeness. Part of that image is sovereignty itself. God gave man the sovereignty of free will choice, just as God can freely choose to do as he pleases.

God withholds his right to interfere with man’s decisions, thus allowing man to go against God’s wishes, as man chooses of his own accord and desire.




I am a Wesleyan in my theological perspective, and thus do not hold to OSAS or ES, so yes, I am free to walk away. Thus, the various and frequent calls in scripture to persevere in our faith in spite of our trials and tribulations encountered in our journey.

Doug

Gods. So what.

Two things the Bible never says. 1))God have us sovereignty over our will. 2) God withholds His right to interfere with mans decisions. Do you believe in Sola Scriptura?

 

[Presby02]

The question was

So you will affirm you are born with an ability to accept the gospel?

With the natural ability yes? With the moral ability, no. Is that clear enough for you?

 

[Presby02]

Not according to RC

If John 3:16 implied a universal natural human ability of fallen men to choose Christ, then that implication would be wiped out by Jesus’ explicit teaching to the contrary. We have already shown that Jesus explicitly and unambiguously taught that no man has the ability to come to Him without God doing something to give him that ability, namely drawing him. RC Sproul

He clearly taught man does not have the natural ability

Notice the phrase "natural ability". LOL Do you read your sources?

 

[TomL]

Notice the phrase "natural ability". LOL Do you read your sources?

The real question is did you

If John 3:16 implied a universal natural human ability of fallen men to choose Christ, then that implication would be wiped out by Jesus’ explicit teaching to the contrary. We have already shown that Jesus explicitly and unambiguously taught that no man has the ability to come to Him without God doing something to give him that ability, namely drawing him. RC Sproul

He clearly taught Jesus teaching was contrary to the idea of a universal natural ability.

 

[TomL]

With the natural ability yes? With the moral ability, no. Is that clear enough for you?

A natural ability you cannot actually do LOL

 

[TibiasDad]

Gods. So what.

Okay, so does God’s choice or our choice make an action certain?

Two things the Bible never says. 1))God have us sovereignty over our will.

Gen 2:16And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

God sets the parameters; all the trees in the garden, including the tree of the knowledge of good and evil are possible choices. And God said that man could eat whatever he wanted, including from the forbidden tree. No restrictions!

2) God withholds His right to interfere with mans decisions.

Did God mitigate Adam’s choice of food?

Do you believe in Sola Scriptura?

I believe scripture is the highest authority and the foundational source of all spiritual truth. All other sources are to be measured against scripture and are verified or dismissed by it.

Doug