The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[TomL]

This is a bit desperate to just deny it, pivot, and quote sources who simply agree with you. Here are some Trinitarians and misc. others who disagree with you.

Scholar Jason David BeDuhn states that the absence of the definite article makes the two occurrences of “God” “as different as ‘a god’ is from ‘God’ in English.” He adds: “In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being.”—Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament, pages 115, 122, and 123.

BTW

NOTE: The often quoted Jason BeDuhn, as in favour of the rendering 'a god', has his PhD in Comparative Religious studies, not in Biblical languages and, unlike the above mentioned scholars, is not recognized in the scholarly community as an expert in Biblical Greek, although his degree does require an intermediate level of competence in Greek.

 

[civic]

BTW

NOTE: The often quoted Jason BeDuhn, as in favour of the rendering 'a god', has his PhD in Comparative Religious studies, not in Biblical languages and, unlike the above mentioned scholars, is not recognized in the scholarly community as an expert in Biblical Greek, although his degree does require an intermediate level of competence in Greek.

yes he is by far no expert in the biblical languages as his expertise is in religious studies. The two are as different as the day is from the night.

 

[TomL]

yes he is by far no expert in the biblical languages as his expertise is in religious studies. The two are as different as the day is from the night.

Exactly

 

[mikesw]

yes he is by far no expert in the biblical languages as his expertise is in religious studies. The two are as different as the day is from the night.

Do we have anyone around who is decent with the Greek language? I have a question to ask on Romans 2:12-16 if so.
Sorry for the interruption.

 

[civic]

Do we have anyone around who is decent with the Greek language? I have a question to ask on Romans 2:12-16 if so.
Sorry for the interruption.

I'm rusty. I think @JoshebB @TibiasDad @Swordman @DerAlte @praise_yeshua could help you with any questions.

 

[TomL]

Do we have anyone around who is decent with the Greek language? I have a question to ask on Romans 2:12-16 if so.
Sorry for the interruption.

Why don't you go ahead and ask your question. Perhaps one might have the wherewithal or the resources to answer it.

 

[TomL]

Not much to comment on due to sheer lack of supporting verses. One may argue to the contrary, but there are no explicit examples where someone taught to pray to Jesus in the Bible. There are no examples of the word "pray" or "prayer" being used in conjunction with communicating to Jesus.

The Bible teaches to pray to God the Father. That's it.

Matthew 6​

6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.​

​

9So then, this is how you should pray:​

‘Our Father in heaven,​

hallowed be Your name.​

Just a reminder Paul prayed to Christ

2 Corinthians 12:8–10 (UASV) — 8 Three times I implored the Lord about this, that it would depart from me. 9 And he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I take delight in weaknesses, in insults, in times of need, in persecutions and difficulties for the sake of Christ, for whenever I am weak, then I am strong.

showing the op title is false

 

[JoshebB]

nt

 

[JoshebB]

Do we have anyone around who is decent with the Greek language? I have a question to ask on Romans 2:12-16 if so.
Sorry for the interruption.

I'm rusty. I think @JoshebB @TibiasDad @Swordman @DerAlte @praise_yeshua could help you with any questions.

I'm not an expert but go ahead and ask the question. Someone may be able to answer it (correctly). If not, then try CARM or one of the forums where they have a board dedicated specifically for questions about Hebrew and Greek.

 

[civic]

I'm not an expert but go ahead and ask the question. Someone may be able to answer it (correctly). If not, then try CARM or one of the forums where they have a board dedicated specifically for questions about Hebrew and Greek.

I think @TibiasDad and @Swordman are ok with the Greek. In the old days CARM had some really good members who knew their Greek and Hebrew.

 

[mikesw]

I think @TibiasDad and @Swordman are ok with the Greek. In the old days CARM had some really good members who knew their Greek and Hebrew.

Thanks. I probably could have made some educated guesses.

 

[TomL]

This is a bit desperate to just deny it, pivot, and quote sources who simply agree with you. Here are some Trinitarians and misc. others who disagree with you.



C. K. Barrett - Barrett's commentary on John also touches on the translation and its implications for understanding the divinity of Christ, noting that the absence of the article can suggest a distinction rather than a complete separation from God.

C. K.Barrett: "The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God, but is not the only being of whom this is true; if ho theoshad been written it would have implied that no divine being existed outside the second person of the Trinity." The GospelAccording to St. John (S.P.C.K., 1955), p.76.C. H. Dodd: "On this analogy, the meaning of theos en ho logos will be that the ousia of ho logos, that which it truly is, is rightlydenominated theos...That this is the ousia of ho theos (the personal God of Abraham, the Father) goes without saying. In fact, t heNicene homoousios to patri is a perfect paraphrase. "New Testament Translation Problems II," The Bible Translator, 28, 1 (Jan.1977), p. 104.

 

[TomL]

This is a bit desperate to just deny it, pivot, and quote sources who simply agree with you. Here are some Trinitarians and misc. others who disagree with you.


Raymond E. Brown - In "The Gospel According to John," Brown provides an extensive analysis of the prologue and acknowledges the subtleties in the Greek language. He emphasizes the theological implications of the relationship between the Word and God, suggesting that the interpretation hinges on understanding the nature of that relationship rather than a strict translation.

This is what Brown does state

 

[TibiasDad]

Do we have anyone around who is decent with the Greek language? I have a question to ask on Romans 2:12-16 if so.
Sorry for the interruption.

What’s your question?

Doug

 

[civic]

This is what Brown does state

View attachment 940

Yes I have his hardbound 2 volume set on the gospel of John. These guys think we don’t check their false claims lol

 

[mikesw]

What’s your question?

Doug

i moved it to Romans. I think I'm okay unless you have something specific to share
Link: #link question-on-transition-from-rom-2-15-to-16.2098/post-120156

 

[101G]

Hebrews 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

whom and he two person

My point exactly. because Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

the LORD MADE ALL THINGS. and you said all are "LORD", then this is the same ONE PERSON in Hebrews, else you have two creators, and by definition that polytheism. YOU HAVE TWO GODS... Check.... mate.

101G.

 

[101G]

So his arm need not be him

you violate scripture, his ... "OWN ARM" is him...lol, Oh my .... listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

HIS OWN ARM IS HIM...... double check..... mate.

now, no need to reply you have been reproved over and over.

101G.

 

[101G]

It is true that Jesus did declare himself as the "I Am" God of the OT (John 8:58), but the Word (Pre-incarnate Jesus) was face to face with God the Father (John 1:1). Trinitarianism is the only way to make sense of everything.

Until you deal with John 1:1, this conversation will stop.

there is no FACE to FACE...... no, only an ECHAD of One Person.....Equally Shared. 101G have and will always deal with John 1:1 for the Last time the Word and GOD in John 1:1 is the same one Person in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. the "WITH" answer, Scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." the LORD is the First/Father, and WITH the Last/Son is the same ONE PERSON. and here's why. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." also means "in addition; too:"

Until you deal with the answer 101G gave to John 1:1, this conversation will stop......

101G

 

[Runningman]

More mind blockage exhibited by you.

Three Persons, each God by nature. Not three God natures, one God Nature.

Strawman. Nobody is defending that. Three apples is one fruit is what I'm defending

Your mind blockage is a joke.

What you should really get for yourself is a pick that can break through the blockage in your mind.

The Athanasian Creed shows awareness that what it says reads like three distinct Gods because it calls each of them God then immediately says one God. That isn't even a sleight of hand, it's obviously false. Furthermore, since the Athanasian creed confirms that each distinct person of the Trinity is God then saying that there is one God is actually a lie. When you going to stop defending what you know to be nonsense?