The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[TomL]

Please post the entire Bible if you wish. This is going to be fun when you don't find a single verse that identifies Jesus as eternal.

Seriously ?

1 John 1:1–3 (ESV) — 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

and though not mentioning the word eternal it nevertheless teaches it

Hebrews 1:8–12 (ESV) — 8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

 

[TomL]

The context has nothing to do with pagan gods and even if it did it would still place the Father as the only true God. That excludes Jesus my friend.

Oh synergy, you're going to wish I would run away. You'll run away long before I do. Many already have when they can't take anymore Scripture.

Jesus being glorified doesn't mean he's God. We are also glorified.

Romans 8 (KJV)
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Not God's exclusive glory. Don't forget, that glory was also given to the disciples. God does give people glory, just not His glory. See John 17:5 and John 5:44.

Really?

John 17:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 2020) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

 

[Runningman]

You have failed miserably to prove that the context is Trinitarianism. The onus is on you to do so and prove that it's not idolatry and paganism that is being contrasted with the one true God.

The context isn't Trinitarianism, the context is the Jesus praying to his God and telling him he's the only true God. Since that's true for Jesus then it's true for everyone.

Once again you have run away as fast as your legs can carry you. Your actions do reflect in an excellent way your name.

Hello synergy. Are you imagining me running away when I am still here? Stick to the issues instead of making noise.

You are contradicting Isaiah 42:8 when it says "I am Jehovah; that is My name; and My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."

The Bible does not contradict Isaiah 42:8. Yes there is God's exclusive glory and then there is glory that God gives to people that isn't His glory. Therefore, John 17:5 isn't a reference to God's exclusive glory that He will not give to another because He gave it to Jesus and the disicples.

John 17 (KJV)
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Romans 8 (KJV)
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

John 17:5 is a unitarian-slaying one of many verses that you conveniently ran away from, being true to your name.

You're imagining that. I love John 17:5 and it demonstrates perfectly that Jesus didn't literally pre-exist. Don't forget John 17:3 is still there

God says he's the only Savior of man.
Jesus says he's the only Savior of man.
Who is the only Savior of man?
I predict that you will not answer this question. You will run away as fast as your little legs can carry you.

God the Father is the only savior of men who is the primary savior.

Who saved Jesus? I predict you will not answer this question.

Hebrews 5 (KJV)
7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

 

[Runningman]

Nope. That's what you are saying, having stripped Jesus of his Deity in your mind.

You just said no to Scripture. I didn't offer you an opinion. I gave you a Scriptural fact as defined by James.

Nope. Its perfectly orthodox to recognize that the Son is the perfect Image of the Father. They are both still God.

Orthodox heresy. So God can be tempted with sin? Now you are contradicting yourself.

Until you can demonstrate that contextually they prove your heretical view, I will keep going with the non-heretical view of all those passages. You failed miserably with John 17:3 so the same thing will happen with all others.

Believing God can be tempted to sin is non-heretic? Your comment doesn't make any sense. You began by first denying Scripture and then saying that it's orthodox to do so and that you aren't a heretic. Sorry, are you reading what you type here?

John 17:3 proves the Father is the only true God. Deal with it.

 

[Runningman]

but never

Hebrews 1:3 (ESV) — 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

But Jesus is not God's glory. While they have the same divine nature, Christians can also have the divine nature.

2 Peter 1
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[Runningman]

Reply

Even when you want to say something simple, you miss it.

No, I got it.

I am not healing people.

Jesus and the disciples did.

I am not walking on water.

Jesus and Peter did.

Nor am I raising people from the dead.

Jesus, Peter, and Paul did.

I have not confronted Pharisees.

Jesus and the disciples did.

I have not even judged a nation.

The saints will judge the world.

I'm woefully behind.

I know.

I still am waiting to see when you overcome the passages that point out the deity of Christ within the Godhead. You never overcome the arguments made against your interpretations.

No idea what you're talking about. Which passages?

 

[Runningman]

John talking to an elder in heaven while he was caught up to heaven is not parallel to Stephen on earth asking Jesus in heaven to receive his spirit.

Why not just face the fact. Your argument is weak and Jesus was prayed to

BTW it is not parallel to

John 14:12–14 (KJV 1900) — 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

That is Jesus telling his disciples to petition him in prayer and he will do it

case closed

It's an identical parallel between what John and the elder did and what Stephen did to Jesus. They spoke to one other from earth to heaven. So what you lack are any verses regarding the words for prayer being used in conjunction with speaking to Jesus. What you also lack are any commandements, examples, or teachings to pray to Jesus in Scripture.

The only teaching on prayer in Scripture is to pray to the Father in Matthew 6:6,9.

The below verse comes after John 14:12-24 and overrules/supersedes it.

John 16 (KJV)
23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

The case is closed on your argument.

 

[Runningman]

Seriously ?

1 John 1:1–3 (ESV) — 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1 John 1:1-3 doesn't say Jesus is eternal. It says the Word of life is an it, a thing, and calls it eternal life. Eternal life is a thing. This doesn't call Jesus eternal. A that, which, and it is not a person.

and though not mentioning the word eternal it nevertheless teaches it

Hebrews 1:8–12 (ESV) — 8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

I am not even sure where you are seeing anything about Jesus being eternal here. This one seems to come out of left field. Where do you see anything regarding Jesus being eternal in Hebrews 1:8-12?

 

[Runningman]

Really?

John 17:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 2020) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

So?

John 17 (KJV)
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[TomL]

But Jesus is not God's glory. While they have the same divine nature, Christians can also have the divine nature.

2 Peter 1
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Um Jesus is the radiance of the glory of God. How can he radiate the glory of God if he is less than God

You are not the radiance of his glory, nor am I or any other man

It's an identical parallel between what John and the elder did and what Stephen did to Jesus. They spoke to one other from earth to heaven. So what you lack are any verses regarding the words for prayer being used in conjunction with speaking to Jesus. What you also lack are any commandements, examples, or teachings to pray to Jesus in Scripture.

The only teaching on prayer in Scripture is to pray to the Father in Matthew 6:6,9.

The below verse comes after John 14:12-24 and overrules/supersedes it.

John 16 (KJV)
23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

The case is closed on your argument.

Sorry that is simply false

John talking to an elder in heaven while he was caught up to heaven is not parallel to Stephen on earth asking Jesus in heaven to receive his spirit.

He is not asking the elder to do something which is a function of God

Why not just face the fact. Your argument is weak and Jesus was prayed to

BTW it is not parallel to

John 14:12–14 (KJV 1900) — 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

That is Jesus telling his disciples to petition him in prayer and he will do it

you just ignored it running elsewhere

case closed

 

[civic]

Jesus has all the attributes of God (eternal existence, ability to save, possessing God's Glory, being worshipped, being prayed to, etc...), even declaring himself the OT God, and yet Unitarians say no, he could not possibly be God. Go figure.

yes man may have a couple things in common with Christ but there is a list I posted with well over a 100. No man can have them unless that man is also God- which Christ is called our Great God and Savior/God and Savior more than once in scripture. He is also called the rue God, Only Lord, Only Sovereign, the Alpha and Omega, the First and Last, the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God etc.......

The evidence is overwhelming for Hs Deity in Scripture for those without an agenda, a bias, a closed mind etc.....

 

[TomL]

1 John 1:1-3 doesn't say Jesus is eternal. It says the Word of life is an it, a thing, and calls it eternal life. Eternal life is a thing. This doesn't call Jesus eternal. A that, which, and it is not a person.

I am not even sure where you are seeing anything about Jesus being eternal here. This one seems to come out of left field. Where do you see anything regarding Jesus being eternal in Hebrews 1:8-12?

The word of life is Christ - a particular aspect of his being

examine the verse

1 John 1:1–3 (ESV) — 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

that which is from the beginning - this is the same john who wrote

what did John and the apostles see and hear what did they touch

John 1:1–29 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

It is obvious they had seen Christ, heard him, and even handled him as John records in his gospel

This is a case of you being willfully blind

and as for Hebrews

Hebrews 1:8–12 (ESV) — 8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

He was there whebn creration began and his years have no end that is eternal

 

[TomL]

So?

John 17 (KJV)
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So you ignored the verses posted

And your text does not say the father alone is the only true God

trinitarians hold the father and the son and the Holy Spirit are all the one true God


The phrase only true (in “only true God”) in John 17:3—in both grammar and context—is not intended to contrast the Father and the Son, but rather to contrast the one true God’s nature with that of false gods.32 The Greek word for true in this verse carries the meaning “real” or “genuine.” Hence, Jesus in this verse is simply saying that the Father is the “only true God”—the only real or genuine God—as opposed to the many false gods and idols (see 1 Thess. 1:9; 1 John 5:20; Rev. 3:7; 2 Chron. 15:3; Isa. 65:16). This verse does not take away from Christ’s deity in any way.

Remember no man had seen or heard God at any time Christ made him know as the messenger of his presense who is called God, the God of the fathers, the God of Abraham, Jacob and Joseph, and YHWH

Christ and the Father mutually indwell one another

John 14:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

If you have seen him you have seen the Father

 

[Runningman]

Um Jesus is the radiance of the glory of God. How can he radiate the glory of God if he is less than God

You are not the radiance of his glory, nor am I or any other man

The word radiance implies receiving it from a source other than himself. For example, the moon reflects sunlight, but is not a source of sunlight, therefore it radiates the sun's light. The earth is heated by the sun, and radiates heat back out into space, but it is not its own heat source on the surface. Make sense?

Sorry that is simply false

John talking to an elder in heaven while he was caught up to heaven is not parallel to Stephen on earth asking Jesus in heaven to receive his spirit.

He is not asking the elder to do something which is a function of God

Sorry that is simply false. You have not demonstrated that Jesus is a god that someone would even pray to in the first place. Since you literally have not teachings about praying to Jesus to point to for precedent, the look is you're just randomly saying that when people talk to Jesus it's a prayer when, in demonstration, it isn't.

Why not just face the fact. Your argument is weak and Jesus was prayed to

BTW it is not parallel to

John 14:12–14 (KJV 1900) — 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

That is Jesus telling his disciples to petition him in prayer and he will do it

you just ignored it running elsewhere

case closed

Speaking to Jesus isn't a prayer. If it was he would have effectively been saying in John 16:23 to stop praying to God if Jesus was God. On the contrary, he once again directed the asking to the Father. Wow.

Your teaching is not compatible with Jesus' other teachings because you misapply them.

John 16 (KJV)
23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

 

[civic]

160 reasons Jesus is God

1. Jesus IS the visible image of the Invisible God - Colossians 1:15, II Corinthians 4:4...to see Jesus is to see the Invisible God - Mankind was created IN the image of God - Genesis 1:26...Jesus IS the image of God. To see Jesus is to see the Invisible God in the flesh.

2. Jesus was conceived by God - Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:20. Since Mary was his earthy mother, that makes Jesus fully human..since God was His physical Father, since Jesus did not have an earthy father, that makes Jesus fully God. He was fully man and fully God. The Great Godman.

3. To see Jesus' face is to see the glory of God - II Corinthians 4:6

4. Jesus "being in the form of God" makes Him God - Philippians 2:6

5. Jesus being the brightness of the Father's glory - Hebrews 1:3

6. Jesus is the exact image of the Father's Person - Hebrews 1:3

7. That is why to "see Jesus" is to "see the Father" - John 14:9, John 12:45

8. That is why Jesus said He and His Father are one - John 10:30

9. Jesus is IN the bosom of the Father - John 1:18. Not "on" the bosom"..not "near" the bosom...IN the bosom...He is in the center of the Father. They are "one"
10. He is called EVERLASTING Father - Isaiah 9:6

11. Jesus deserves the SAME honour as the Father - John 5:23

12.Jesus was WORSHIPPED - Matthew 2:11, Matthew 9:12, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, Luke 24:52..Since only God is to be worshipped - Matthew 4:10..that means Jesus is God.

13. Even angels WORSHIP Jesus - Hebrews 1:6

14. Heaven falls down before the Lamb - Revelation 5:8

15. Jesus Created ALL things - Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2, John 1:3, Ephesians 3:9 ....God created all things - Acts 14:15, Isaiah 45:18, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 42:5. Jesus is God

16. Jesus also made the world - John 1:10. Jesus is God - Isaiah 44:18

17. Jesus created all things for HIMSELF - Colossians 1:16, Proverbs 16:4(Jesus is God)

18. By Jesus all things consist - Colossians 1:17

19. Jesus upholds all things - Hebrews 1:3

20. Jesus is before all things - Colossians 1:17

21. Jesus rules heaven and earth - Matthew 28:18. Jesus is God - II Chronicles 29:11

22. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5

23. Jesus called Himself the Great "I AM" - John 8:58, John 8:24...a quote from Exodus 3:14

24. In the body of Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead - Colossians 2:9

25. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are THREE and they are ONE - I John 5:7

26. And this is all why Jesus is EQUAL WITH GOD - Philippians 2:6

27. Jesus was "God manifest in the flesh" - I Timothy 3:16

28. God was in Christ - Galatians 3:17, II Corinthians 5:19

29. Jesus is the Power of God and the Wisdom of God - I Corinthians 1:24

30. Jesus "only" hath immortality - I Timothy 6:16

31. Jesus is Lord of the living and the dead - Romans 14:9

32. Jesus is called the Saviour - Luke 2:11, Titus 1:4, Titus 2:13, Titus 3:3, II Peter 1:1, II Peter 1:11, II Peter 2:20, II Peter 3:18, I John 4:14

33. Only Jehovah God alone is the Saviour - Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 45:15 , Hosea 13:4, I Timothy 2:2, Jude 1:25...that means Jesus is God.

34. Jesus ALONE is the Great Judge - John 5:22. The Judge is God - Hebrews 12:23, Revelation 18:8, Hebrews 13:4, Romans 2:3,5 - Jesus is God. All the verses in the Bible that talk about God being the Judge refer to Jesus, since He alone judges. The Father
judges no man - John 5:22.

35. Jesus has the keys of hell and of death - Revelation 1:18. The one that can cast into hell is to be FEARED - Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:5 Only God is to be feared - Rev 14:7

36. Jesus is from EVERLASTING - Micah 5:2, Isaiah 9:6

37. Jesus has NO BEGINNING of days - Hebrews 7:3

38. Jesus is the SAME, yesterday, today and forever - Hebrews 13:8. A quote from Psalm 102:27. Jesus is God.

39. Jesus' is in the midst or the center of the throne of God - Rev 1:6

40. Jesus has the Greatest Name above every name ever named - Philippians 2:9

41. Jesus' name is the Greatest in the world to come as well - Ephesians 1:21

42. And it is before name of JESUS, not any other name including Jehovah, that the peoples of the earth and heaven and bowing before - Philippians 2:10. Jesus is God - Isaiah 45:22-23

43. Only by the name JESUS can one be saved - Acts 4:10-12

44. Jesus is called the Alpha and Omega - Revelation 1:11

45. Jesus who is the Alpha and Omega is the ALMIGHTY - Revelation 1:7-8

46. Jesus is called the King of kings - I Timothy 6:15. Jesus is the King - Zechariah 9:9. The King is God - I Timothy 1:17. Jesus is God

47. Jesus is called Lord of lords - I Timothy 6:15. God is called Lord of lords - Deut 10:17. Jesus is God

48. Christ is called the ROCK - I Corinthians 10:4. That is who Israel followed. The ROCK who Israel followed was GOD - Deut 32:3-4. - God is the Rock - Psalm 18:2 and only God is the Rock - Psalm 18:31. Christ is God.

49. Jesus calls Himself the FIRST AND THE LAST - Revelation 1:11,17. Only GOD is the FIRST AND THE LAST - Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12. Jesus is God.

50. Jesus knows all things (OMNIPOTENT) - John 2:24-25, John 4:29, John 6:64, John 16:30

51. Jesus is OMNIPRESENT - Matthew 18:20, Matthew 28:20

52. Jesus' body fills all (is omnipresent) - Ephesians 1:23

53. Jesus knows the hearts of men - Revelation 2:23

54. Jesus dwells in the hearts - Ephesians 3:17

55. And "liveth" in the believers - Galatians 2:20

56. Jesus knows the thoughts of men - Matthew 9:4, Luke 6:8

57. And Jesus will judge the "secrets" of men - Romans 2:16

58. God shed His blood - Acts 20:28

59. The cross is the "power of God" - I Corinthians 1:17-18

60. Jesus called the Kingdom of God His Kingdom - John 18:36

61. Jesus is the "Deliverer" of the believers from the wrath of God - I Thessalonians 1:10, Romans 11:26. Only God is the Deliverer from the wrath of God - II Corinthians 1:9-10

62. In Jesus' name we TRUST - Ephesians 1:12-13, Matthew 12:21, Philippians 2:19. Only in God do we trust - Psalm 4:5, 7:1, 31:1, 73:28, Isaiah 26:4. Jesus is God.

63. Jesus is the TRUTH - John 14:6. Jesus is God - Psalm 31:5

64. Jesus sent the prophets - Matthew 23:34...God sent the prophets - Jeremiah 7:25. Jesus is God who sent the prophets.

65. Jesus is the Stone of stumbling - I Peter 2:8. A prophesy from Isaiah 8:13-14. God is the stone of stumbling. Jesus is God.

66. God is the fountain of living waters - Jeremiah 17:13....Jesus is the fountain of living waters - John 4:10-14

67. Jesus brings reward to the wicked for their works - Matthew 16:27. Jesus is God - Psalm 54:4-5, II Samuel 3:39.

68. The reward of salvation is "with Jesus" - Revelation 22:12. Jesus is God - Isaiah 62:11, Isaiah 40:10

69. Jesus gave power to His people - Luke 9:1. Jesus is God - Psalm 68:35

70. Jesus is called the HOLY ONE - Acts 3:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 30:15, Isaiah 40:25, Isaiah 41:14, Isaiah 43:15

71. Jesus is the light - John 8:12. Jesus is God - Psalm 27:1

72. Jesus is the Husband of believers - Revelation 19:7,9, 21:2, 21:9. Jesus is God - Isaiah 54:5

73. Jesus gives us rest - Matthew 11:28. Jesus is God - Exodus 33:14

74. Jesus gathers the sheep - John 10:16. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:11

75. Jesus seeks and saves that which is lost - Luke 19:10. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:16

76. Jesus is the Shepherd - John 10:11,14. Jesus is God - Psalm 23:1

77. Jesus feeds the people and causes them to sit down - Mark 8:5-10, Matthew 14:19-21. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:15

78. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin - I John 1:7. God cleanses from sin - Psalm 51:2, Ezekiel 36:25.. Jesus is God

79. Redemption is from Jesus Christ - Romans 3:24, Colossians 1:14. Redemption is from God - Psalm 130:7. Jesus is God

80. Christ is the Redeemer - Galatians 4:5, Galatians 3:13, Revelation 5:9, Titus 2:14. God is the Redeemer - Jeremiah 31:11, Isaiah 41:14, Isaiah 44:22, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 44:24. Jesus is God

81. Jesus wrote new commandments with His finger - John 8:5-9. This is to show that He is God who wrote the 10 commandments with His finger - Exodus 31:18

82. The Bible declares God. That God is Jesus who is written in all the scriptures - Luke 24:27, Luke 24:44, John 5:39, John 5:46

83. ALL things are by Jesus - I Corinthians 8:6

84. John the Baptist, the voice in the wilderness prepared the coming of the Lord - Matthew 3:3. A quote from Isaiah 40:3...He prepared the coming of Jehovah God!!!!

85. Jesus forgave sin - Matthew 9:2, Mark 2:5....and only GOD can forgive sins - Mark 2:7. Only God can forgive sin where they are atoned for it. Jesus is God.

86. Jesus forgave sins and healed diseases - Matthew 9:6. Only God can do that - Psalm 103:3

87. Jesus calmed the storm - Matthew 8:26...Only God can - Psalm 107:25

88. God was pierced - Zechariah 12:10...quoted again in John 19:37. Jesus is God

89. God was priced at 30 pieces of silver - Zechariah 11:12-13...quoted again in Matthew 27:9....Jesus is God.

90. Jesus returns again with His saints - I Thess. 3:13. A fulfillment of Zechariah 14:5 that says GOD will come with His saints. Jesus is God.

91. The Jews wanted Jesus killed for the crime of Blasphemy - Matthew 26:65. In their minds He claimed to be God - John 10:33, and Equal with God - John 5:18 and forgave as only God can do - Mark 2:7, Luke 5:21...that was blasphemy is their eyes - Mark 2:7,
Luke 5:21. Jesus by His words and actions claimed to be God...and that is why He was found guilty by the Jews of blasphemy.

92. Jesus raised Himself from the dead - John 2:19-21. John 10:17-18

93. Jesus will raise all the dead - John 6:39-40,44. God raises the dead both physically and spiritually - Ezekiel 37:12-14. Jesus is God

94. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one and the same. Christ is God - Romans 8:9

95. Jesus quickens (which means to make alive) - John 5:21. Only God can make someone alive - Ezekiel 37:5-6,9. Only God can quicken - Psalm 80:18. Jesus is God.

96. One cannot serve God and mammon - Matthew 6:24. Only God is to be served - Romans 1:9. The One we serve is Jesus Christ - Colossians 3:24.

97. Jesus is the one who "justifies" - Galatians 2:17. ONLY GOD can justifieth - Romans 8:33. Jesus is God.

98. Jesus "reveals" truth - Luke 10:22, Matthew 11:27. Only GOD can reveal truth - Philippians 3:15, I Corinthians 2:10. Jesus is God.

99. God will not share His glory with another - Isaiah 42:8, 48:11. But the Father glorifies the Son - John 17:1,5, John 12:23, John 13:31-32. Jesus is God and He is ONE with the Father.

100. ONLY in the name of JESUS is their salvation. There is salvation is NONE OTHER - Acts 4:10-12, II Timothy 2:10. And salvation belongs to GOD - Psalm 3:8, Jonah 2:9, Lamentations 3:26, Isaiah 52:10, Psalm 51:14. Since only in the name of Jesus is there
salvation and salvation belongs to God, that simply means Jesus is God.

101. Jesus chooses the elect - John 15:16. Jesus is God - I Thess. 2:13, I Cor. 1:27

102. Men are Jesus' disciples - John 13:35, John 15:8. Jesus is God - Isaiah 8:16

103. Jesus' voice is the sound of many waters - Revelation 1:15. Jesus is Almighty God - Ezekiel 43:2.

104. Jesus' feet are like fine brass - Revelation 1:15. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 1:7, Ezekiel 1:28

105. Jesus' name is the Word of God - Revelation 19:13

106. All grace comes from God - I Peter 5:10. Jesus is that God where all grace comes from - Rev 22:21, Romans 16:20, I Thess. 5:28, II Thess. 3:18

107. Jesus comes with clouds - Rev 1:7, Matthew 24:30 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 19:1, Jeremiah 4:13, Numbers 11:25

108. Jesus is called God - John 1:1, Hebrews 1:8

109. Jesus is called The Great God - Titus 2:13

110. Jesus is called The Mighty God - Isaiah 9:6

111. Jesus is called The True God - I John 5:20

112. Jesus is "God with us" - Matthew 1:21

113. Jesus is called "My God" - John 20:28. Since there is "no other God" - Isaiah 45:5,21-22..that means Jesus is that God.

114. Jesus is called "our hope" - I Timothy 1:1. We hope in Jesus - I Cor. 15:19. We are to only hope in God - I Peter 1:21, Psalm 38:15. Jesus is God.

115. Christ is our life - Colossians 3:4. Jesus is God - Psalm 42:8

116. Jesus is called Faithful - Revelation 19:11. Jesus is God - Deut 7:9

117. Jesus is called True - Revelation 19:11. Jesus is God - Romans 3:4

118. Israel temped Christ - I Corinthians 10:9. Jesus is God - Deut 6:16, Numbers 14:22.

119. Christ sent serpents and destroyed Israel - I Cor 10:9. Jesus is God - Numbers 21:6-7

120. Jesus rebukes and chastens - Revelation 3:19 - Jesus is God - Hebrews 12:5-7, Proverbs 3:11-12.

121. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of faith - Hebrews 12:2

122. God said "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness" - Genesis 1:26. The plurality refers to the Trinity. This is not talking about the angels or heavenly host. Angels cannot create life. Secondly, nowhere is it indicated that angels are made in the image of
God. Third, there is no indication that mankind is created in the image of angels.

123. The plurality of the Trinity is also referred to in Genesis 3:22 and Isaiah 6:8. Jesus is God.

124. Before Jesus became man, He had glory with the Father before the world was - John 17:5

125. All things are given into Jesus' hand - John 3:35

126. Jesus is described as "WHICH WAS" dead, and "IS" alive - Revelation 2:8. The one who "which was" and "which is" is Almighty God - Revelation 4:8, Revelation 1:8. Jesus is God.

127. The "Great Day" of the Wrath of the Lamb - Revelation 6:16-17 is the "Great Day" of God Almighty - Revelation 16:14. Jesus is the Lamb who is God Almighty.

128. Jesus is the King - I Timothy 6:15, John 18:37. Jesus is the King who is called the "only wise God" - I Timothy 1:17

129. Jesus is called the "Just One" - Acts 22:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 45:21

130. Jesus "gives" repentance - Acts 5:31, Acts 3:26. Jesus is God - II Timothy 2:25

131. Jesus reconciled all things to Himself - Colossians 1:20. Jesus is God - Romans 5:18-19

132. Jesus brings Judgment on the churches in Revelation 2 and 3. Jesus is God - Hebrews 10:30, Deuteronomy 32:35-36

133. God has a Father - Revelation 1:6. That God is Jesus Christ.

134. Jesus stilled the waves and rules the sea- Matthew 8:26-27, Mark 4:39-41. Jesus is God - Psalm 89:8-9

135. Jesus has eyes that are sent forth into all the earth - Revelation 5:6 - Jesus is God - II Chronicles 16:9

136. To know the love of Christ is to be filled with the fulness of God - Ephesians 3:19

137. Christ strengthens the believers - Philippians 4:13. Christ is God - Isaiah 40:29, Isaiah 41:10

138. In Christ's presence is fullness of joy - John 15:11. Jesus is God - Psalm 16:11

139. To see Jesus is to see the Father and to hate Jesus is to hate the Father as well - John 15:24, John 15:23

140. Jesus turns the water into wine - John 2:7-11. A creative act to show that Jesus is Creator God.

141. Jesus walks on water - John 6:19, Matthew 14:26, Mark 6:48 - Jesus is God - Psalm 93:4, Psalm 95:5, Psalm 72:8, Job 9:8

142. Jesus causes the blind to see - Matthew 9:27-30, Matthew 11:5, Mark 8:22-26, Mark 10:51-52. Jesus is God - Psalm 146:8, Isaiah 35:4-5

143. Jesus causes the deaf to hear - Matthew 11:5, Mark 7:32, Mark 7:37 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 43:7-8

144. Jesus causes the dumb to speak - Matthew 9:32-33, Matt 15:31, Mark 7:37, Luke 11:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 36:6, Ezekiel 24:27, Ezekiel 33:22

145. Jesus causes the lame to walk - Matthew 11:5, Mark 2:11, Luke 7:22 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 35:6

146. Jesus' face shines as the sun - Matthew 17:2. Jesus is God - Psalm 84:11, Malachi 4:2

147. Jesus will inherit all nations - Psalm 2:7-8. Jesus is God - Psalm 82:8

148. Jesus will rule all nations with a rod of iron - Revelation 12:5. Jesus is God - Isaiah 14:5-6

149. Jesus will smite all nations with a rod or iron. He is the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God - Revelation 19:15. He is Almighty God who brings wrath.

150. Jesus and His Father established the ends of the earth - Proverbs 30:4

151. Jesus was without sin - II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, I Peter 2:22. Only God is without sin - Deuteronomy 32:4. Jesus is God

152. Jesus is ABOVE ALL - John 3:31

153. Jesus is GOD OVER ALL - Romans 9:5

154. Jesus is LORD OF ALL - Acts 10:36

155. The Lord God sent His angel to John - Rev 22:6. It is Jesus that sent His angel - Rev 22:16. Jesus is the Lord God.

156. Jesus is called the "Lord of Glory" - I Corinthians 2:8. Jesus is YHWH God - Psalm 24:8-10

157. Jesus gets glory now and forever - II Peter 3:18

158. The Father calls Jesus "LORD" who made heaven and earth - Hebrews 1:10

159. Heaven is God's throne and earth His FOOTSTOOL - Isaiah 66:1, Matthew 5:34-35. Jesus is God - Matthew 22:44, Hebrews 1:13

160. Every knee shall bow, and "every tongue" shall confess to GOD - Romans 14:11. The God "every tongue" is confessing to is JESUS CHRIST - Philippians 2:11

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

The word radiance implies receiving it from a source other than himself. For example, the moon reflects sunlight, but is not a source of sunlight, therefore it radiates the sun's light. The earth is heated by the sun, and radiates heat back out into space, but it is not its own heat source on the surface. Make sense?

He had it with him before the world was

John 17:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Sorry that is simply false. You have not demonstrated that Jesus is a god that someone would even pray to in the first place. Since you literally have not teachings about praying to Jesus to point to for precedent, the look is you're just randomly saying that when people talk to Jesus it's a prayer when, in demonstration, it isn't.

False

Stephen on earth prayed to Jesus in heaven to receive his spirit. The Spirit goes back to God who made it

Jesus in likewise told his disciple who were on earth they could ask of him while he was in heaven and stated he would do it

As I noted you are simply framing and ignoring the factsi

Speaking to Jesus isn't a prayer. If it was he would have effectively been saying in John 16:23 to stop praying to God if Jesus was God. On the contrary, he once again directed the asking to the Father. Wow.

That is simply denial see above

 

[Runningman]

The word of life is Christ - a particular aspect of his being

examine the verse

1 John 1:1–3 (ESV) — 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

that which is from the beginning - this is the same john who wrote

what did John and the apostles see and hear what did they touch

John 1:1–29 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

It is obvious they had seen Christ, heard him, and even handled him as John records in his gospel

This is a case of you being willfully blind

First of all, the plain english translates the Word of life as a thing in 1 John 1:1-3 because the Greek absolutely requires it. It won't allow for the Word of life to be a person, because that isn't what it is. You're at the disadvantage here with the passage itself directly refuting your claims to the contrary. So if you will look at the passage in 1 John 1:1-3, you will see that the Word of life is eternal life. Therefore, eternal life is a thing.

Think back to John 17:3, which says "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." So eternal life is not another person along with God and Jesus. Therefore, the Word of life is a thing because eternal life is a thing.

In order for your interpretation to work, we would have to actually throw out Trinitarianism and have Quadrinitarianism with Eternal Life being the 4th member of your godhead.

So, no, you have been very reasonably shown that Jesus was not called eternal in 1 John 1:1-3, but rather a thing is called eternal. Read it again.

1 John 1 (KJV)
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

John 1 doesn't describe Jesus as eternal.

and as for Hebrews

Hebrews 1:8–12 (ESV) — 8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

He was there whebn creration began and his years have no end that is eternal

Verse 10-12 isn't about Jesus. The part that is about Jesus is Hebrews 1:8 where they quoted Psalm 45:6. The original context in Psalm 45:6 isn't about God, but rather calling the human king who has a queen a god. It's not appropriate to call the human king, most likely Solomon, God when he isn't. Therefore it's not appropriate to call Jesus God.

If you will read what you actually quoted, you will see in Hebrews 1:9 that the true God who anointed the god is the last God referenced before Hebrews 1:10. Therefore, the eternal God and Creator is YHWH and not Jesus. Hebrews 1:8-12 is a Unitarian prooftext and actually debunks the Trinitarian concept of God since it proves the one being anointed does not have equality with YHWH.

 

[Runningman]

So you ignored the verses posted

And your text does not say the father alone is the only true God

trinitarians hold the father and the son and the Holy Spirit are all the one true God


The phrase only true (in “only true God”) in John 17:3—in both grammar and context—is not intended to contrast the Father and the Son, but rather to contrast the one true God’s nature with that of false gods.32 The Greek word for true in this verse carries the meaning “real” or “genuine.” Hence, Jesus in this verse is simply saying that the Father is the “only true God”—the only real or genuine God—as opposed to the many false gods and idols (see 1 Thess. 1:9; 1 John 5:20; Rev. 3:7; 2 Chron. 15:3; Isa. 65:16). This verse does not take away from Christ’s deity in any way.

Remember no man had seen or heard God at any time Christ made him know as the messenger of his presense who is called God, the God of the fathers, the God of Abraham, Jacob and Joseph, and YHWH

Christ and the Father mutually indwell one another

John 14:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

If you have seen him you have seen the Father

John 17:3 still has the Father being the only true God. No fiddling with Scripture, theological arguments, or denying of Scripture is going to somehow or another undo that. It firmly, unequivocally, and undeniably declares the Father is the only true God. That plainly means Jesus isn't God.

 

[civic]

John 17:3 still has the Father being the only true God. No fiddling with Scripture, theological arguments, or denying of Scripture is going to somehow or another undo that. It firmly, unequivocally, and undeniably declares the Father is the only true God. That plainly means Jesus isn't God.

1- John 17:3 still gas the Son equal with the Father in the creation of everything

2- John 17:5 the context has the Son and Father together before anything was created sharing the exact same glory together with each other.

Next fallacy

 

[mikesw]

1- John 17:3 still has the Son equal with the Father in the creation of everything

2- John 17:5 the context has the Son and Father together before anything was created sharing the exact same glory together with each other.

Next fallacy

amen