Nothing seriously needs addressing there. If someone else feels like logic can help you, they can respond in more detail.
The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
You are running
Who did the Old Testament saints see
BTW you were not addressing me. I just pointed out that Jesus statement that no man has seen or heard the voice of the Father is quite problematic for your theology
Are you confessing Jesus is the express image of his person
So when one sees Jesus they see the Father
If so you are finally getting it.
Let's indeed test this with a real life example. If the Divine Appearance in Ex 3 is not the Father (your claim) but is God (Ex 3:6), then whom is the Person who appeared to Moses in Ex 3?
Runningman
Well-known member
Reply to what I wrote instead of inserting all of your whataboutisms.
Chronologically, only Jesus had seen the Father at the time, then later the disciples also saw the Father, according to Jesus. You can test this with a real life example. We will never get an eye upon the Father. For His glory would quite simply destroy us. However, you can see the Father by knowing Him. Jesus, being a good Son, is like his Father, but is not his Father. If you are a good son or daughter then you, too, can be like your Father. That's the idea about seeing Jesus to see the Father. If you are like Jesus then by extension you are like the Father and when people know you they, too, can know the Father. Why else did you think we are made to be like God?
Matthew 5
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Ephesians 4
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
1 Peter 1
16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
If you still don't believe, please provide the verse in which Jesus looked visually at the Father. So far you have shown nothing that distinguishes him from the disciples who also can "see" the Father.
John 14
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Runningman
Well-known member
So this reply is just hot air then. Ok.
I did
And apparently you affirmed Jesus is the spitting image of the father
and I applaud that confession
Now who did the Old Testament saint see if they had not seen the father
Runningman
Well-known member
Since humans like Jesus can't look at God, what would make you any different? Is the Bible lying?
1 John 4 (KJV)
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Runningman
Well-known member
And we are to be the spitting image of the Father too. Can you address what I wrote about being like God? Jesus being like God isn't something exclusive to Jesus.
I may just watch on the sidelines and see if you address real issues.
I don't think so
I see nowhere in scripture we are stated to be the express image of his person
or
Hebrews 1:3 (ESV) — 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Runningman
Well-known member
My OP is irrefutable. Just letting you know, I have only posted two topics on this forum and I have decided to let you all exhaust your arguments before I post more teachings from Jesus.
Runningman
Well-known member
This is proof you aren't reading anything I write. Here it is again, three times now, maybe more. I have time. When you are ready to address this let me know.
Chronologically, only Jesus had seen the Father at the time, then later the disciples also saw the Father, according to Jesus. You can test this with a real life example. We will never get an eye upon the Father. For His glory would quite simply destroy us. However, you can see the Father by knowing Him. Jesus, being a good Son, is like his Father, but is not his Father. If you are a good son or daughter then you, too, can be like your Father. That's the idea about seeing Jesus to see the Father. If you are like Jesus then by extension you are like the Father and when people know you they, too, can know the Father. Why else did you think we are made to be like God?
Matthew 5
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Ephesians 4
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
1 Peter 1
16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
If you still don't believe, please provide the verse in which Jesus looked visually at the Father. So far you have shown nothing that distinguishes him from the disciples who also can "see" the Father.
John 14
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Very good question. That proves that Jesus is God.
Wonderful verse that perfectly aligns with Trinitarianism..
So you think you have real arguments to make instead of this warm-up stuff that failed? Then you have been trying waste people's time.
@Runningman has been blocked at every point he's tried to gain a hostile foothold in the Bible. He's a test case on what heretical thoughts exist out there and how we repel them each time with the Bible.
Sorry you are just repeating yourself and confessing Christ is just like God the father
Hebrews 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Well i agree and applaud the confession
You do understand Trinitarians do not believe Jesus is the father
The disciples saw the "father in that they saw Jesus"
John 14:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
That would be a proof for the deity of Christ
Oh BTW
John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
I often will try to take a little different angle on passages like John 1 when these folk try to present an unconventional interpretation. The ideas these guys have shared just do not give a new coherent reading. Some make the Word as the gospel but they have to say the text is flesh or some other concept that simply does not flesh out well. The focus is on Jesus and the gospel is subservient to Jesus. Jesus also is the message from God and the image of God among us. No one else qualifies.
Um your op
failed to account for the fact Jesus was prayed to and called upon for salvation
also
John 14:13–14 (KJV 1900) — 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
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I'm always so thankful how we Trinitarians are so coherent in our defence of the Bible. It makes sense because we have one Bible but that's easier said than done.
The way that Unitarians try to warp the Bible so that it confirms to their heretical thoughts would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.
I've realized recently that it's Arian Unitarianism that is the major hostile heresy that Christianity is facing now. Arianism was annihilated by the Nicean and Calceldon Creeds but it has resurfaced recently with the proliferation of all those heretical cults out there.
Correct. All Unitarians have failed miserably to disprove the Biblical fact that Jesus is God and therefore is to be worshiped and prayed to.
