The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

Fred said:
Zero proof given.



Thus, proving the Son is God.
You hate Daniel 7:13-14 because it refutes your heresy.
This is why you ran away from it.

Simple.
Click to expand...
Brazen to say the least and it puts you automatically at the disadvantage. The son of man and God are together in Daniel 7:13 and you're saying they're the same person. You're hysterical, man.

Daniel 7
13In my vision in the night I continued to watch,
and I saw One like the Son of Man
coming with the clouds of heaven.
He approached the Ancient of Days
and was led into His presence.
 
Runningman said:
Brazen to say the least and it puts you automatically at the disadvantage. The son of man and God are together in Daniel 7:13 and you're saying they're the same person. You're hysterical, man.

Daniel 7
13In my vision in the night I continued to watch,
and I saw One like the Son of Man
coming with the clouds of heaven.
He approached the Ancient of Days
and was led into His presence.
Click to expand...


You left out that the Son of Man is the proper recipient of 'pelach' in Daniel 7:14.

You make this so easy for me.

Thanks.
 
Fred said:
You are not a we.

Your confusion is quite profound.
Click to expand...
Neither God is a “we”.

The number of times the Bible uses a singular pronoun for God exceeds the number of times it uses a plural pronoun in a proportion of 99:1
So it is far easier to discard the exception than the rule. Particularly when Jesus refers to God in singular and you intend to follow Jesus teachings.
 
Pancho Frijoles said:
The number of times the Bible uses a singular pronoun for God exceeds the number of times it uses a plural pronoun in a proportion of 99:1
Click to expand...

That would not invalidate them.

Both are true.

Jesus is referred to as the Son of Man many more times than He is referred to as the Son of David.
One does not cancel out the other.

This is simple.
 
Fred said:
That's like quoting all the passages which teach Jesus is "the Son of Man" but then rejecting the ones which teach He is "the Son of God."

Both are true.
Click to expand...
Of course both are true… and both titles refer to the same role: The role of Messiah predicted by the prophets in the Tanakh.
 
Fred said:
You left out that the Son of Man is the proper recipient of 'pelach' in Daniel 7:14.

You make this so easy for me.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
It's not easy for you and yours is a very minority opinion among translators or the Trinitarian theological community. It can also prove that Jesus is a man. That's why he's called the Son of Man in the Bible because he's a human.

Begin here:

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

"14. A universal and never-ending dominion is given to him. The expressions in the first half of the verse resemble in part those used in Daniel 5:18-19 of Nebuchadnezzar. Serve does not necessarily mean worship: like the word which has the same meaning in Heb. (עבד), it may be used of obedience to either God (Daniel 3:12; Daniel 3:14 al.) or a human ruler (Daniel 7:27; and the Targ. of Jeremiah 27:6-8, &c.). With the second half of the verse comp. Daniel 2:44, and especially Daniel 4:3 b, 34 b (of the kingdom of God). All peoples, nations, &c., as Daniel 3:4."
 
Runningman said:
It's not easy for you and yours is a very minority opinion among translators or the Trinitarian theological community. It can also prove that Jesus is a man. That's why he's called the Son of Man in the Bible because he's a human.

Begin here:

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

"14. A universal and never-ending dominion is given to him. The expressions in the first half of the verse resemble in part those used in Daniel 5:18-19 of Nebuchadnezzar. Serve does not necessarily mean worship: like the word which has the same meaning in Heb. (עבד), it may be used of obedience to either God (Daniel 3:12; Daniel 3:14 al.) or a human ruler (Daniel 7:27; and the Targ. of Jeremiah 27:6-8, &c.).
Click to expand...


Total fail.

You need to back up that it is in reference to a human ruler (not Jesus) in Daniel 7:27.


Both passages below are in reference to the Lord Jesus.

Daniel 7:14, 27
(14) His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom is one which shall not be destroyed.
(27) His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.
 
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Fred said:
Total fail.

You need to back up that it is in reference to a human ruler in Daniel 7:27.

"His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him."
Click to expand...
Context is the great tribulation beast kingdom. You're probably reading it like they are serving and obeying God, but that isn't what it's saying.
 
Fred said:
That would not invalidate them.

Both are true.
Click to expand...
Of course it would invalidate it. Both things can’t be true at the same time and the same way.
God is either personal or impersonal. Infinite or finite. Good or evil. One or plural.



Fred said:
Jesus is referred to as the Son of Man many more times than He is referred to as the Son of David.
One does not cancel out the other.

This is simple.
Click to expand...
Son of Man, Son of God, and Son of David do not invalidate each other because they are metaphorical titles.
By the same token, that YHWH is called “Lord of Hosts” (“Armies” in Spanish) does not invalidate that YHWH is also God in time of peace.

In contrast, when Jews, Christians, Muslims, Baha’is, Zoroastrians and Sikhs say God is One, we mean it literally, not metaphorically.
Do you believe, Fred, and @civic, that God is One literally, or metaphorically?
If your answer is “literally”, then God is ether “I” or We”. Either “He” or “They”.
 
Fred said:
It's not in the "same way"
1 God in three Persons.
Click to expand...
It is “in the same way” if we treat God as Personal. A personal being cannot be more than One Person.
If we treat God as a class or category of beings, then many metaphorical uses are possible, and many ancient Greeks would easily take our point. For an ancient Greek, god is a category, just as “human”.

Hence my question: Do we worship a Person or a Class? Do we love God as a Being or as a Concept?
If you ask me, I worship and love God as a Personal Being. Not a class, not a council.
 
Fred said:
We worship 1 Triune God.
Click to expand...
Triune means Three Persons?
If the answer is Yes, then you don’t worship a Personal God, but an Impersonal God… a concept or class.
Obviously, I am just saying this for the sake of the argument.

I believe you worship in your heart One Single Person, just as Jesus worshiped One Single Person.
Trinitarians do not live as polytheists. They just try different mental gymnastic routines to jump a bit higher before landing, again, on the floor…. The floor of the Oneness of God.
 
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Pancho Frijoles said:
Triune means Three Persons?
Click to expand...

Yes.


Pancho Frijoles said:
If the answer is Yes, then you don’t worship a Personal God, but an Impersonal God.
Click to expand...


False.


Pancho Frijoles said:
Obviously, I am just saying this for the sake of the argument.
Click to expand...
Ok, but it isn't correct.


Pancho Frijoles said:
I believe you worship in your heart One Single Person, just as Jesus worshiped One Single Person.
Click to expand...


Paul prayed to both the Father and the Son because he knew they are both God.

2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace,
comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.


Can you imagine a strict monotheist who did not believe Jesus is God puts Jesus before the Father in this prayer?
Never.
Jesus has to be God.
 

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