The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

I pinged you in my response to mike. I am going to have a lot more examples than John 2:22 where the subject of the verb is not the doer of the verb because of the presence of the passive voice. Are you worried you're going to become a believer?
Like I said. You're proving you didn't know this before you made the argument. Over and over you keep proving you're a novice. I believe I've given you enough rope to "hang yourself". I'm not going to stick around long enough for you to "find/fabricate" examples.
 
So you have confessed that the passive voice is used to describe the subject receiving an action or being acted upon. Since I had to get you in a corner to make you agree, now what are you going to do about John 2:22 speaking of Jesus' resurrection in the passive voice? Ready to drop the spirit of pride?
what on earth are you saying here? I must remind you that the passive voice is agnostic. However, since Jesus said he would raise himself, He is the one who raised himself in John 2:22. I think I now see your misconception. You think because Jesus is the one who is raised from the dead that he cannot be the one who raised himself from the dead. So you still fail to recognize that the ability to raise Jesus from the dead is explicitly stated in John 2:19. Thus, the action of raising Jesus is best assigned to Jesus.
 
Like I said. You're proving you didn't know this before you made the argument. Over and over you keep proving you're a novice. I believe I've given you enough rope to "hang yourself". I'm not going to stick around long enough for you to "find/fabricate" examples.
You're using ad hominem and accusations to try to undo what the Bible says. No one is buying it.
 
what on earth are you saying here? I must remind you that the passive voice is agnostic. However, since Jesus said he would raise himself, He is the one who raised himself in John 2:22. I think I now see your misconception. You think because Jesus is the one who is raised from the dead that he cannot be the one who raised himself from the dead. So you still fail to recognize that the ability to raise Jesus from the dead is explicitly stated in John 2:19. Thus, the action of raising Jesus is best assigned to Jesus.
Seems you want to remain just vague and obscure enough to give you the plausible deniability you plead ignorance. If you agree with Greek grammar, you've lost your resurrection debate. If you flat out deny it, you look ignorant. Better for you to just keep running around circles.

So once again, you don't actually have anything about Jesus resurrecting himself. My oh my, the Trinity doctrine takes a pretty big hit without any evidence that Jesus resurrected himself. I've even provided you more examples of the passive voice referring to what people receive, not what they do to themselves.

Here's another one where Jesus isn't said to be a member of a triune Godhead in which he participated in his own resurrection. The grammar rules Jesus out and gives glory to the Father for it.

Romans 6
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 
Seems you want to remain just vague and obscure enough to give you the plausible deniability you plead ignorance. If you agree with Greek grammar, you've lost your resurrection debate. If you flat out deny it, you look ignorant. Better for you to just keep running around circles.

So once again, you don't actually have anything about Jesus resurrecting himself. My oh my, the Trinity doctrine takes a pretty big hit without any evidence that Jesus resurrected himself. I've even provided you more examples of the passive voice referring to what people receive, not what they do to themselves.

Here's another one where Jesus isn't said to be a member of a triune Godhead in which he participated in his own resurrection. The grammar rules Jesus out and gives glory to the Father for it.

Romans 6
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
All I can see is that you cheerfully praise yourself in your delusion. YOu have not refuted anything I said.
 
All I can see is that you cheerfully praise yourself in your delusion. YOu have not refuted anything I said.
Oh ok, you have given up trying to defend your rejection of John 2:22. You want to talk about John 2:19. It's a prophecy because he said [they] would destroy the temple and in three days "I" will raise it again. I understand your problem with this. The rest of the Bible states that God acted on Jesus to raise him (Acts 2:32; 4:10; 5:30; Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; 1 Thess. 1:9-10, etc.)

But you still have a problem understanding what Jesus meant with his prophecy. There are many other prophecies of prophets speaking for God in the 1st person perspective.

Wow. Isaiah isn't claiming to be God is he? Isaiah didn't mention anything about speaking for God when Isaiah said that. Following your reasoning, Isaiah is God and so is Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, and several others. @praise_yeshua

Isaiah 41
10So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
 
Oh ok, you have given up trying to defend your rejection of John 2:22. You want to talk about John 2:19. It's a prophecy because he said [they] would destroy the temple and in three days "I" will raise it again. I understand your problem with this. The rest of the Bible states that God acted on Jesus to raise him (Acts 2:32; 4:10; 5:30; Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; 1 Thess. 1:9-10, etc.)
The only way that all those verses and John 2:19 are true is only if Trinitarianism is true. Jesus resurrected by both his power (John 2:19) and by the power of God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Thank you so much for sharing all those Trinitarian verses. We appreciate it. Keep them coming!
But you still have a problem understanding what Jesus meant with his prophecy. There are many other prophecies of prophets speaking for God in the 1st person perspective.

Wow. Isaiah isn't claiming to be God is he? Isaiah didn't mention anything about speaking for God when Isaiah said that. Following your reasoning, Isaiah is God and so is Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, and several others. @praise_yeshua

Isaiah 41
10So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
Huh??? John 2:21 clearly describes who is talking about whom. He (Jesus, not the Father) is talking about His body. The Father does not have a body. That's your closet Mormonism that you are exposing. Sorry, we're not buying into your closet Mormonism.

21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
 
The only way that all those verses and John 2:19 are true is only if Trinitarianism is true. Jesus resurrected by both his power (John 2:19) and by the power of God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Thank you so much for sharing all those Trinitarian verses. We appreciate it. Keep them coming!

Huh??? John 2:21 clearly describes who is talking about whom. He (Jesus, not the Father) is talking about His body. The Father does not have a body. That's your closet Mormonism that you are exposing. Sorry, we're not buying into your closet Mormonism.

21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
Trinitarianism isn't "true" insofar as it represents Christian theology and it would only complicate matters for John 2:19-22. For one, it would mean Jesus isn't fully human and fully god. For two, it would place God as a person external to Jesus. That's my point, actually, because Trinitarianism is a false doctrine.

Even John 2:19, if literal, is contradicted by the rest of the Bible that makes no mention of Jesus resurrecting himself. If John 2:19 is not a prophecy, then there is a strong case to make that Isaiah and the others who spoke in first person perspective about something God said are themselves God. The best resolution is to keep John 2:19 the prophecy it is because Jesus isn't God.

Trinitarianism has a lot of theological woes that don't jive with Scripture.
 
Trinitarianism isn't "true" insofar as it represents Christian theology and it would only complicate matters for John 2:19-22. For one, it would mean Jesus isn't fully human and fully god.
How so? Explain yourself. It's not automatically true just because you say so.
For two, it would place God as a person external to Jesus. That's my point, actually, because Trinitarianism is a false doctrine.
John 1:1 makes it clear that the Word "was with God" and "was God". You need to understand these ontological truths about the Uncreated Word of God who is no one other than Jesus Christ.
Even John 2:19, if literal, is contradicted by the rest of the Bible that makes no mention of Jesus resurrecting himself.
We still have no proof from you how it's contradicted when viewed in a Trinitarian way.
If John 2:19 is not a prophecy, then there is a strong case to make that Isaiah and the others who spoke in first person perspective about something God said are themselves God. The best resolution is to keep John 2:19 the prophecy it is because Jesus isn't God.

Trinitarianism has a lot of theological woes that don't jive with Scripture.
That would mean you're a closet Mormon, believing that the Father has a body. You need to be more persuasive if you want us to buy into your closet Mormonism.
 
It's also the problem with the Dunning-Krueger effect. In case you didn't know, it means you may not know enough to know that you do not know that you have no idea what you're talking about. It causes people to overestimate their abilities or knowledge and display an inappropraite level of confidence while the real experts just raise their eyebrows at them and sometimes eat popcorn laughing. If one didn't know enough to know if they are a victim to their own ignorance, would you be aware?
That's where the third member of the Trinity comes in. The Holy Spirit.

13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

We need the Holy Spirit in our lives just as much as we need a relationship with our heavenly Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.This is why
The Holy Spirit is so Important.

He part of the Holy Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You need Him just as much as you need Father and Son. In fact, the Holy Spirit makes possible our ongoing Christian life and enables you both to experience Christ and to have a relationship with the Father. The Holy Spirit enables you to have a sense of victory in your Christian walk.

You need Him at work in you and through you if you are to fulfill your earthly destiny in Christ and become the person that the Father created you to be.
 
The Bible doesn't have to teach us to pray to Jesus. Nor does it prohibit praying to Him. If our fellowship is with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (2 Cor. 13:14), then obviously there's going to be praying to each and all of them. Paul commended the Corinthians and all his church "plants" for "calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."
 

John 14:11-15​

11 Believe me that I am in my Father, and the Father in me : or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye SHALL ASK in my NAME, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 IF YE SHALL ASK any thing in MY NAME, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Yes we use the of form of how to speak with God in " the Lord's Prayer", but it is not to repeat said prayer over & over again , as some do...... It is in the form of honouring God in his holiness, asking for others needs, sharing forgiveness to receive forgiveness and making sure in whom we trust ...GOD !

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD ! GOD THE CREATOR" OUR FATHER", GOD THE SON,JESUS,WHEN GOD HIMSELF WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN IN THE FLESH, AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT, THAT IS THE POWER OF A BELIEVER, A CONVICTOR AND JUDGE OF SIN IN MANKIND.


PTL
 
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FAQ: Did Jesus ever instruct anyone to pray to himself?

REPLY: Yes.

Matt 11:28-29 . . Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will
give you rest.

John 4:10-14 . .If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.

John 7:37 . . On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a
loud voice; "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink."

When Jesus says "come" and/or "ask" he expects his audiences to reciprocate with
an RSVP.

John 5:39 . . .You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them
you possess eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about me, yet you
refuse to come to me to have life.


NOTE: Prayer can be thought of as rapport: defined as a friendly relationship
marked by ready communication and mutual understanding; which is the opposite
of Matt 7:22-23 wherein Jesus informs a number of super-pious individuals that he
never knew them, i.e. they somehow failed to cultivate a person-to-person
association with the one man in Christianity that matters most.
_
 
.
FAQ: Did Jesus ever instruct anyone to pray to himself?

REPLY: Yes.

Matt 11:28-29 . . Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will
give you rest.

John 4:10-14 . .If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.

John 7:37 . . On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a
loud voice; "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink."

When Jesus says "come" and/or "ask" he expects his audiences to reciprocate with
an RSVP.

John 5:39 . . .You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them
you possess eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about me, yet you
refuse to come to me to have life.


NOTE: Prayer can be thought of as rapport: defined as a friendly relationship
marked by ready communication and mutual understanding; which is the opposite
of Matt 7:22-23 wherein Jesus informs a number of super-pious individuals that he
never knew them, i.e. they somehow failed to cultivate a person-to-person
association with the one man in Christianity that matters most.
_
None of those teach to pray to Jesus. The only command given or example given is praying to the Father. No one ever prayed to Jesus, Jesus never prayed to himself, the Father never prayed to Jesus, etc.

All examples are of praying to the Father and the example/teaching of who to pray to is the Father in Matt 6:6,9
 
None of those teach to pray to Jesus. The only command given or example given is praying to the Father. No one ever prayed to Jesus, Jesus never prayed to himself, the Father never prayed to Jesus, etc.

All examples are of praying to the Father and the example/teaching of who to pray to is the Father in Matt 6:6,9
The entire Heavens directs their prayers and worship to the Father's Throne where Jesus now sits upon. Are you saying that Jesus is actively dodging every prayer coming his way???
 
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In the letter to Hebrews, Jesus is portrayed as the new covenant's high priest.
Now it would be a fine kettle of fish if I was never permitted to communicate with
the one man in Heaven that I'm confident has God's ear.

I have inoperable end-stage esophageal cancer. Radiation and chemo have slowed
it down, but haven't stopped it. When I complete my walk thru the valley of the
shadow of death, I hope to have enough presence of mind remaining to speak up
the same as Stephen did in his last moments.

Acts 7:59-60 . .While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed: Lord Jesus, receive
my spirit.
_
 
modern christianity is antichrist = against christ and continuing the rcc, following the same corrupt scroll,
what Daniel calls the sealed vision

this body is sin. a body not made by God
on this earth not made by God

ask logically
why God says he will destroy this earth
in prophets if this earth were His?

He never declared it good! It's not eden which He created. We are in a foreign land far away from Home

sin is not a mental system

the fall had cosmological effects
 
.
In the letter to Hebrews, Jesus is portrayed as the new covenant's high priest.
Now it would be a fine kettle of fish if I was never permitted to communicate with
the one man in Heaven that I'm confident has God's ear.

I have inoperable end-stage esophageal cancer. Radiation and chemo have slowed
it down, but haven't stopped it. When I complete my walk thru the valley of the
shadow of death, I hope to have enough presence of mind remaining to speak up
the same as Stephen did in his last moments.

Acts 7:59-60 . .While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed: Lord Jesus, receive
my spirit.
_
I am praying for your comfort.
I saw your request on another forum I'm no longer a member of.
God's blessing to you and your family.

Heaven is only a breath away ❤️
 
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