Exactly! I was about to tell @Runningman why does he even care about the HU when he doesn't even believe it himself! RM just wants to sow discord amongst fellow believers. Satan is exactly like that.
The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
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MTMattie
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dwight92070
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1 Corinthians 1:2-3 "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
It looks like Paul is clearly saying that in every church that he started ("in every place"), those Christians pray to Jesus - and that he is okay with that. Actually, more than just okay. He even pronounces "grace and peace" from the Father, on them. In fact he goes on to say in verse 4: "I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, ... "
Paul is thankful, it appears even rejoicing, that they pray to Jesus. Why would that be? It's simple, because Jesus is God. We don't pray to humans. Jesus was human, but also God in the flesh.
It looks like Paul is clearly saying that in every church that he started ("in every place"), those Christians pray to Jesus - and that he is okay with that. Actually, more than just okay. He even pronounces "grace and peace" from the Father, on them. In fact he goes on to say in verse 4: "I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, ... "
Paul is thankful, it appears even rejoicing, that they pray to Jesus. Why would that be? It's simple, because Jesus is God. We don't pray to humans. Jesus was human, but also God in the flesh.
I told you the verse. Matthew noted the message that he would be called Immanuel. You cannot even understand a simple verse and combine that with his birth to a virgin. You have to put blinders on so you cannot see the true essence of Christ Jesus.Uh, show me where Jesus was ever actually called Immanuel. Crickets.
DavidTree
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The man Jesus could not but the WORD that was GOD could.
Because you reject the WORD that was GOD and became flesh, you cannot understand Truth.
The WORD that was GOD and became flesh is the RESURRECTION, the WAY, the TRUTH and Eternal LIFE.
When the WORD that was GOD became flesh, HE emptied HIMSELF of HIS previous GLORY in HEAVEN with HIS FATHER.
While on earth, as a man, HE completely surrendered HIS Will for the Will of the FATHER = the WAY
While on earth, as a man, HE only Spoke of that which the FATHER Spoke = the TRUTH
While on earth, as a man, HE overcame the wicked one/satan and committed no sin = the LIFE
While on earth, as a man, HE gave HIS SINLESS LIFE and BLOOD as an offering for your sins on the Cross = the LAMB of GOD
Because HE committed no sin HE Rose from the DEAD for HE is the RESURRECTION
It is so weird that he thinks the posting of the concept of HU would perhaps shock us by some sort of contradiction. In fact, the HU is the only way of seeing Jesus that makes sense. Runningman does not give any explanation why it does not make sense, except perhaps that he does not understand it.
Maybe his problem is that he only sees God as one person. Maybe then he is rejecting a modalist view. Or he is denying God's ability to interact in his own creation and to do so in a surprising fashion. Essentially, he has a reductionist view of who God is and what God can do. As a result of that bias and his inability, he tries to push us to conform to the same misconceptions while failing every time to have a sufficient argument to his conceptions.
The debates are sort of similar with trying to debate a Mormon. Every term has a different meaning to them and thus the true debates about Christ do not make sense to that person.
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It was an odd thing for a unitarian to post. He seems to think that the definition reveals a contradiction. Any contradiction is essentially just in the mind of one who cannot comprehend God's ability to interact with his creation. It is like a Platonic view such that God would be impure to be among people through an incarnation.
Again you do not do proper exegesis here. The Greek word is passive. It does not identify who raised him. Therefore, it does not testify against Jesus involved in this. You are severely handicapped in your exegetical efforts. Don't rely on the exegetical approaches you have followed. Don't rely on a teacher who pushes that exegetical malpractice on you.
Runningman
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You need to demonstrate that Jesus raised himself from the dead if you are trying to conflate him with God. That would be like me saying "Destroy this time and in three days I'll raise it" and then after that no one even uttering a peep about it. Nowhere does the Bible say Jesus resurrected himself in any of Paul's or Peter's letters. That's what happened in the Bible. Jesus gave a prophecy about a resurrection and said the words God gave him to say, but wasn't claiming he would resurrect himself. If you were even remotely skilled at being a prophet you would find what I am saying to be true through experience.
To the contrary, we have an example of Jesus not resurrecting himself, but rather appealing to God to save him from death. Wow. Jesus appealed to God like everyone else for deliverance? What makes you think if Jesus couldn't save himself from the curse of Adam that he could resurrect himself?
Hebrews 5 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
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Runningman
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Notice there is no mention of an incarnation here.
Runningman
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Sometimes I will quote what is false in order to put it next to what the Bible says to prove it.
Runningman
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Low hanging fruit with a soft underbelly, just like the trinity doctrine. Easy pickings and the fastest way to wake you people up is by exposing the errors.
Runningman
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Runningman
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Please show us where the word "pray" appears in that verse. Good luck.
Runningman
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The previous point has not been dealt with. Jesus was utterly incapable of giving life until AFTER the only true God gave it to him. Yes or no?
Runningman
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The subject (Jesus) being in the passive voice refers to him receiving the action of the resurrection. What you need is the subject (Jesus) being in the ACTIVE voice which would mean Jesus did the action. John 2:22 refutes you.
MTMattie
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Uh, show me where Jesus was ever actually called Immanuel. Crickets.
Isaiah 7:14
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.Twice said so in the Bible. As this is not a personal name.... maybe why YOU have not heard this.
At the risk of being called a sexist... Women are not so much talked about by the male authors and translators. So if mama called Him that, how would you know. She knew enough to get Him to change water into wine. You could not do that and neither could your son if you have one.
Here is another that he was never called by The prophet Jeremiah writes of “a King who will reign wisely” (Jeremiah 23:5), and he gives us the name of the coming Messiah: “And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness’” (Jeremiah 23:6, ESV). Jesus was never called “The Lord Our Righteousness” as a name, but we can call Him that! He brings the righteousness of God to us. He is God in the flesh, and the One who makes us righteous (1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21).
And lest you forget... There are many “names” given to Jesus in the Old and New Testaments, and Immanuel is only one of them. Isaiah elsewhere prophesied of the Messiah, “He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6). Jesus was never called by any of those “names” by the people He met in Galilee or Judea, but they are accurate descriptions of who He is and what He does. The angel said that Jesus “will be called the Son of the Most High” (Luke 1:32) and “the Son of God” (verse 35), but neither of those was His given name.
Runningman
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Jesus is a man God was with, not a god who was with them. And he was never even addressed as Immanuel in the Bible.
Acts 10
37You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
MTMattie
Well-known member
Has it occurred to any of you that @Runningman is simply pumping for scriptural answers?
As if he needs points for a class or a thesis he is writing......
Look at my reply 3337 and then His 3338
Can he not read?
My reply 0f 3337 was to his question "Uh, show me where Jesus was ever actually called Immanuel."
He quotes my reply and then writes... Jesus is a man God was with, not a god who was with them. And he was never even addressed as Immanuel in the Bible.in 3338.
As to this statement "and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him."
Well, Duh... that is correct because as God Jesus could not be separated from HIM.
As if he needs points for a class or a thesis he is writing......
Look at my reply 3337 and then His 3338
Can he not read?
My reply 0f 3337 was to his question "Uh, show me where Jesus was ever actually called Immanuel."
He quotes my reply and then writes... Jesus is a man God was with, not a god who was with them. And he was never even addressed as Immanuel in the Bible.in 3338.
As to this statement "and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him."
Well, Duh... that is correct because as God Jesus could not be separated from HIM.
Runningman
Well-known member
I am not paid to be here or motivated by a classroom assignment. I have already graduated many years ago. This is just something I am passionate about and want to debate it with you all. That's it.
Anyway, God was with Jesus. Is God with anyone else who did miracles too?
