Runningman
Well-known member
You're on a run for your money at this point.
The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
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Johann
Well-known member
So are you @Runningman.
Answering Objections
Cults and false religions often raise objections against both the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity. In what follows, key objections will be briefly summarized and answered.
Jesus Is the Son of God
Some claim that because Jesus is the Son of God, He must be a lesser God than God the Father. Among the ancients, however, an important meaning of Son of is “one who has the same nature as.” Jesus, as the Son of God, has the very nature of God (John 5:18, 10:30, 19:7). He is thus not a lesser God.
The Father Is “Greater” Than Jesus
Some cults argue that because Jesus said the Father is “greater” than Him (John 14:28), this must mean Jesus is a lesser God. Biblically, however, Jesus is equal with the Father in His divine nature (John 10:30). He was positionally lower than the Father from the standpoint of His becoming a servant by taking on human likeness (Philippians 2:6–11). Positionally, then, the Father was “greater” than Jesus.
Jesus Is the Firstborn
Some cults argue that because Jesus is the “firstborn of creation” (Colossians 1:15), He is a created being and hence cannot be truly God. Biblically, however, Christ was not created but is the Creator (Colossians 1:16; John 1:3). The term firstborn, defined biblically, means Christ is “first in rank” and “preeminent” over the creation He brought into being.
Jesus Is Not All-Knowing
Some cults argue that because Jesus said no one knows the day or hour of His return except the Father (Mark 13:32), Jesus must not be all-knowing, and hence He must not be truly God. In response, Jesus in the Gospels sometimes spoke from the perspective of His divinity and at other times from the perspective of His humanity. In Mark 13:32, Jesus was speaking from the limited perspective of His humanity (see Philippians 2:5–11). Had he been speaking from His divinity, He would not have said He did not know the day or hour. Other verses show that Christ, as God, knows all things (Matthew 17:27; Luke 5:4–6; John 2:25, 16:30, 21:17).
Jesus Prayed
Some cults argue that because Jesus prayed to the Father, He could not truly be God. Biblically, however, it was in His humanity that Christ prayed to the Father. Since Christ came as a man—and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to, and adore God—it was perfectly proper for Jesus to address the Father in prayer. Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew, and as our High Priest—“in all things He had to be made like His brethren” (Hebrews 2:17)—Jesus could pray to the Father. But this in no way detracts from His intrinsic deity.
The Trinity Is Illogical
Some cults claim the Trinity is illogical (“three in one”). In response, the Trinity may be beyond reason, but it is not against reason. The Trinity does not entail three gods in one God, or three persons in one person. Such claims would be nonsensical. There is nothing contradictory, however, in affirming three persons in one God (or three whos in one what).
The Trinity Is Pagan
Some cults have claimed the doctrine of the Trinity is rooted in ancient paganism in Babylon and Assyria. In response, the Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods. These triads constituted three separate gods (polytheism), which is utterly different from the doctrine of the Trinity that maintains that there is only one God (monotheism) with three persons within the one godhead.
Conclusion: Jesus is God
We have seen that Jesus must be viewed as God by virtue of the facts that He has the names of God, the attributes of God, and the authority of God; He does the works of God; and He is worshiped as God. We have also seen persuasive scriptural evidences for the doctrine of the Trinity. Our triune God is an awesome God!
Is Jesus God?
Is Jesus really God? Many cults and false religions today deny it. What is the truth about Jesus Christ? We turn to the Scriptures for the answer.
answersingenesis.org
J.
civic
Well-known member
You are projecting
Runningman
Well-known member
Then you don't understand the hypostatic union. Your theology necessitates a Two Jesus' doctrine. One Jesus is the human and the other Jesus is the god. That's not a hypostatic union, that's modalism. You seem to not fully understand what you believe. The hypostatic union says Jesus IS fully God and fully man. No one here agrees with you except maybe @101G
Johann
Well-known member
Just gave you the scriptures-not too difficult to understand, but the natural man cannot comprehend these things. And your response is philosophical in the light of empirical evidence of Scripture.
J.
civic
Well-known member
Runningman
Well-known member
No, you didn't. Those are prophetic of what would happen. For example, in order for Jesus to have "raised up the temple" then the reverse would also be true when he said "Destroy this temple." In other words, in your theology Jesus killed himself. Nonsense.
Read John 2:22 where the language is clear that someone external to Jesus (The Father) raised Jesus from the dead.
John 2 NIV
22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
Runningman
Well-known member
In the hypostatic union Jesus is "fully god and fully man" forever. The man Jesus is the god Jesus. You have two Jesus' to correct this problem, but you didn't think it through. There are not two Jesus' in the Bible. The Son of God is the exact same person as the Son of Man.
John 5 KJV
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
MTMattie
Well-known member
No one here disagrees with @civic except you . You and the limitations you place of what God can or cannot do.
We all know in the most basic terms, the concept of hypostatic union states that Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man. He is simultaneously perfectly divine and perfectly human, having two complete and distinct natures at once.
What you seem incapable of understanding is why, After Jesus went into the water and was baptized by John, he rarely let his Devine attributes surface.
Runningman
Well-known member
So is the man Jesus the God Jesus? Same person?
Johann
Well-known member
You are groping at thin air--
Jesus did not kill Himself-He laid down His life voluntarily
Jesus’ Statement is Both Prophetic and Declarative
John 2:19 – "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
John 2:21 clarifies: "But he spake of the temple of his body."
This does not suggest Jesus physically killed Himself but rather that He had the authority and power to raise Himself after death.
The phrase "Destroy this temple" was addressed to others, implying that they (the Jewish authorities) would bring about His death, not that He would kill Himself.
Jesus’ Death Was Caused by Others, Not Himself
Acts 2:23 – "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain."
Acts 3:15 – "And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses."
These passages affirm that Jesus was killed by others (through crucifixion), not by Himself.
Your claim that Jesus "killed Himself" is a misreading of John 2:19.
Jesus’ Authority Over His Own Life and Death
John 10:17-18 – "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."
This verse refutes your claim that Jesus had no role in His resurrection. He voluntarily laid down His life (allowing others to kill Him), but He also had the power to take it up again.
The Passive and Active Roles in Resurrection
Scripture presents all three persons of the Godhead as involved in Jesus' resurrection:
The Father raised Jesus (Romans 6:4, Acts 2:24).
Jesus raised Himself (John 2:19, John 10:18).
The Holy Spirit was involved (Romans 8:11, 1 Peter 3:18).
These statements do not contradict but show the unity of God’s power in Christ’s resurrection.
Conclusion
The claim that Jesus "killed Himself" is a misunderstanding of John 2:19. The Jewish leaders ("Destroy this temple") were responsible for His death.
Jesus' power to raise Himself does not imply self-destruction but divine authority over life and death.
The resurrection was a Trinitarian act, not an independent event carried out by Jesus alone.
J.
MTMattie
Well-known member
Absolutely. You did perfectly to prove the point we all are saying.
Golly gee. Quoting Got Questions with a truth.
Understanding the Hypostatic Union as a truth.
Before too long you will be right there with us, teaching the truth.
We are watchin and rootin for ya.
Runningman
Well-known member
Notice the date stamp of those verses. They are before the Incarnation
That you for all those Trinitarian verses that support the fact that Jesus kenotically assumed the form of a Servant while retaining his Deity. See Phil 2: 5-11.
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Keep those Trinitarian verses coming!!!
Runningman
Well-known member
You seem to show awareness that Jesus did not kill himself, then it's true he didn't raise himself from the dead. That's my point. Case in point was when I asked you to show me where Jesus actually raised himself from the dead and you can't find it. No one ever said Jesus raised himself from the dead in the Bible. They all said the Father raised Jesus or that the Spirit of God raised Jesus. Anything else?
Runningman
Well-known member
Notice how there is no mention of God becoming a man or incarnating in the Bible. You have bad theology built on falsehoods. What we do know is that God said He is not a man. Checkmate.
Johann
Well-known member
Your reasoning is flawed because it assumes that if the Father or the Spirit is said to raise Jesus, then Jesus Himself could not have participated. However, the Bible does not present the resurrection as an either/or scenario but as a Trinitarian act. Jesus was fully involved in His own resurrection by His divine authority, just as He said He would be.
Jesus' Own Words Prove His Involvement in His Resurrection
John 2:19 – "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
John 2:21 clarifies – "But he spake of the temple of his body."
The Greek phrase ἐγερῶ αὐτό (egerō auto, "I will raise it up") is future active indicative, meaning Jesus is the one performing the action of raising His own body. This is not merely prophetic—it is an explicit claim of power over His own resurrection.
2. Jesus Claimed the Power to Take Up His Life Again
John 10:17-18 – "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."
The phrase "I have power to take it again" (Greek: ἐξουσίαν ἔχω πάλιν λαβεῖν αὐτήν) shows that Jesus possessed authority (ἐξουσία) to actively take up His own life, which implies involvement in His own resurrection.
3. The Bible Shows the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit Were All Involved in the Resurrection
The Father Raised Jesus (Acts 2:24, Romans 6:4, Galatians 1:1).
The Holy Spirit Raised Jesus (Romans 8:11, 1 Peter 3:18).
Jesus Raised Himself (John 2:19-21, John 10:17-18).
These are not contradictory but complementary. The resurrection was a unified act of the Triune God.
Simple-right?
J.
The Word who was God became flesh and dwelt among us. I give you one guess as to who exactly is being referred to here as the Word. Your judaizing heretical falsehoods have just crashed and burned.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Excellent research! All the Bible verses put together make sense only if God is viewed in a Trinitarian way.
MTMattie
Well-known member
Then in the future do not post anything that you disagree with
