civic
Well-known member
Yes they are conflating roles/ functions with nature.
The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
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civic
Well-known member
Amazing how the basics are disregarding.
Runningman
Well-known member
Despite only the Father being the only named God in the entire chapter who is God getting the glory, you have created a fantasy about some other nonsense.
Runningman
Well-known member
Then why was God already forgiving sins without sacrifices in the OT? Look it up before you ask me.
This just means you have no sufficient argument.
Runningman
Well-known member
I'll take my chances with the Father based on the Bible. You're free to do whatever you want.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
It’s not my job to look up the information for your questions. This said, Hebrews 9:22 says, “In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Doug
Runningman
Well-known member
It's absolutely your job to know the Bible at least. Don't minimize that. Here's one of many to get you started.
Leviticus 14
29And the rest of the oil that is in the priest's hand he shall put upon the head of him that is to be cleansed, to make an atonement for him before the LORD.
You sure are daring trusting your interpretation of the Bible, especially when you cannot convince anyone that you have a reasonable idea.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
The very same author of Hebrews says, few verses later, (Hebrews 10:4) that such blood could NOT cleanse sins. Do you know that verse and its meaning?
For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
MTMattie
Well-known member
I do not see this but if or if not it would be for the same reason Jesus was sent to the lost sheep, from the OT
However:
Go restudy the first part of Hebrews 10 We are all familiar with the Jewish sacrifices of the Old Testament and we understand that they were intended as a foreshadowing of the great and last sacrifice of the Savior. Here are the verses.
10 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.
2. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?
3. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.
4. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5.Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6. In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”
8. After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law),
9. He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10. By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
I know you will not understand. That's alright. We do.
Runningman
Well-known member
I didn't write the Bible so I don't interpret it. It says what it says and that's enough for me. It's true that I have studied it a lot as well. I do know that salvation is found for us Christians in the gospel. I am curious why you don't believe the Father is the only true God. Jesus said it's required.
You must believe in who sent Jesus to have eternal life.
John 5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
The one who sent Jesus is the only true God.
John 17
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I know. I get it. You have a religion and you're sticking to it, but why do you attach it to our Bible and then fight what the Bible says?
Runningman
Well-known member
Yes I am well aware of the temple sacrifice system and how God did not sacrifice Himself, but rather sacrificed the body and soul of a sinless man. Do you think God died for you or did a man die for you?
Isaiah 53
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Hebrews 9:22 was also speaking about the blood of animals.
So, please don’t use Hebrews 9:22 to support the belief that God demanded blood in exchange for Mercy.
God never required that. He required a broken, contrite heart… genuine repentance.
King David understood God was not requiring him a sacrifice… neither in that moment nor in any future moment, in order to erase his sins and renew his heart.
No blood nor substitutionary atonement. No verbal confession. No baptism. No inciense or holocaust or burnt offering. No creed recitation. No washing. No fire. No dressing in sackcloth. No fasting, singing or dancing. No quiz on Theology answered correctly in an Internet Forum.
Both are true, when scriptures are intrepreted properly, when the complex natures of Jesus are kept separate as the Holy Ghost does in the scriptures. One cannot reject one over the other, or else, you will end up teaching a heresy.
Acts 20:28
“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”1 Timothy 2:5
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
MTMattie
Well-known member
You are in the wrong religion.
He is of some religion other than Biblical Christianity.
He does not describe who Jesus is in his view, at least not with any detail.
He shares sort of an Adoptionist concept of Jesus becoming divinity at the end of his life or something like that
He shares also that Christians become divine individually, not as just because of being in Christ.
He calls Jesus Christ but denies Christ's reign as king -- or says that has not yet happened.
He has failed alternative explanations to passages that point out the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. (I have to add "in the Godhead" lest he assume a different divinity.)
MTMattie
Well-known member
Could be wrong but almost sounds Mormon to me. And they are not biblical Christians, though they will tell you they are.
civic
Well-known member
yep only Jesus the Godman could permanently remove sin- It was Gods blood.
Bible Truth 101- Nothing but the blood of Jesus says Scripture- the very blood of God in the flesh.
Acts 20:28- Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Heb 9:12-He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption
Heb 9:16-18- In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.
hope this helps !!!
