The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

You might notice that God is greater than creation and only conveys details about his existence in an analogical sense to humanity.
Sure why not.
The Israel people had also had wondered about passages where heavenly encounters in scripture reflected interaction of two figures who both appeared as God.
No idea what you're talking about.
Also, historically, Jews often worshiped other gods and thus were not monotheistic in practice.
By this reasoning, you admit that trinitarianism contains the germ of polytheism?
Nor is there a pagan background similar to what we see in the Trinity.
Trinitarian style gods are from pagan religions:

https://www.ucg.org/learn/bible-stu...-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption
You are wrong on each point you are trying to push here except that of the Shema that speaks of God's oneness. So your argument here fails on all points except recognizing the oneness of God, which is not in dispute.
Nope I got it all right. All of your points were refuted.
 
WHO WAS/IS THE WORD??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/
1 John 1:1-3 calls the Word of life a that, a which, a this, and an it. I think it's pretty conclusive that the Word is as the name suggests; words, talking, utterances because that's what it literally means. Normally when people go around applying the traits of a person to non-person things like a word then it's automatically understood that this is personification in literature.
 
PROVE IT................................................................ PROVE GOD IS A PERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You won't hear me. So let's quote your buddies from Got Questions, a Trinitarian source on the matter, who wrote an aritcle saying that God is a person.

"Yes, God is a person. But, when we say that God is a “person,” we do not mean that He is a human being. We mean that God possesses “personality” and that He is a rational Being with self-awareness. Theologians often define person as “an individual being with a mind, emotions, and a will.” God definitely has an intellect (Psalm 139:17), emotions (Psalm 78:41), and volition (1 Corinthians 1:1). So, yes, God is a person.

No one doubts the personhood of man, and man is made in God’s image (Genesis 1:26–27). All through the Bible, the personal pronouns He, Him, and His are used of God."


source: https://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-a-person.html
 
Sure why not.

No idea what you're talking about.

By this reasoning, you admit that trinitarianism contains the germ of polytheism?

Trinitarian style gods are from pagan religions:

https://www.ucg.org/learn/bible-stu...-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption

Nope I got it all right. All of your points were refuted.
That is a stupid point about polytheism being mixed into Trinitarianism. The Israelites did not mix their henotheism into scripture. The problem is apparent in your ignorance that you miss that even Jews had encountered the OT passages where, for simplicity sake, God interacted with God-- as indicating two in conversation (or one speaking to the other). Then in your ignorance you say you refuted this point while not understanding it. Thus, we see another failure in your logic.

Next, if you want to join atheists in denying God and scripture, continue that unsupported theory that some pagan religion is the source of Trinitarian thinking. There is no indication of pagan religions being prominent in the Jewish writings nor in the Christians. You have to say Paul was pagan too.

So maybe your are not an adoptionist but rather an atheist. Are you seeking to deny not only the deity of Christ in the Godhead as well as the Godhead itself?
 
If God and Jesus are treated as having separate minds and wills, how can Jesus be God?
TibiasDad is not Pancho Frijoles because each of us has a separate mind…a separate will.
If I said that you are me or I am you, that would be absurd.
But we are both human in the same exact way!

Pit bulls and Dalmatians are both canine in essence of being. Tigers and tabby cats are both feline in there essence of being. Separate persons or things are yet singular in essence of their type of being.

Jesus and the Father are separate, individual persons but both are identical is essence of being.

Doug
 
That is a stupid point about polytheism being mixed into Trinitarianism. The Israelites did not mix their henotheism into scripture. The problem is apparent in your ignorance that you miss that even Jews had encountered the OT passages where, for simplicity sake, God interacted with God-- as indicating two in conversation (or one speaking to the other). Then in your ignorance you say you refuted this point while not understanding it. Thus, we see another failure in your logic.

Next, if you want to join atheists in denying God and scripture, continue that unsupported theory that some pagan religion is the source of Trinitarian thinking. There is no indication of pagan religions being prominent in the Jewish writings nor in the Christians. You have to say Paul was pagan too.

So maybe your are not an adoptionist but rather an atheist. Are you seeking to deny not only the deity of Christ in the Godhead as well as the Godhead itself?
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Aren't you the one who believes in a multi-person god where none is mentioned in the Bible and I just believe in one God like the Jews and Christians do? You have something in common with the pagan religions of antiquity who had compound gods and three person gods. Your trinity isn't a new or original concept.
 
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are persons; their nature of existence is God/Divine.

You and I are individual persons, but we are human by nature of our existence.


Doug
And even though humans can be one with each other and God, they do not become each other or God. So we have narrowed down Jesus not being God based on him being a human. Should have been obvious, but it's good to talk it out.

John 17
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
 
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Aren't you the one who believes in a multi-person god where none is mentioned in the Bible and I just believe in one God like the Jews and Christians do? You have something in common with the pagan religions of antiquity who had compound gods and three person gods. Your trinity isn't a new or original concept.
You deny history without knowing it. That does not help your argument. If you want to show that multiple gods were envisioned in the Trinity, you would have to show how that was ever held to be true or how it was reduced to one God in three persons.
You have not shown anything except denial of scriptures that show the divinity of Christ Jesus in the Godhead. Maybe you can start making an argument.
 
You deny history without knowing it. That does not help your argument. If you want to show that multiple gods were envisioned in the Trinity, you would have to show how that was ever held to be true or how it was reduced to one God in three persons.
You have not shown anything except denial of scriptures that show the divinity of Christ Jesus in the Godhead. Maybe you can start making an argument.
Easy. We have John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:6, and Eph. 4:6 in the NT that could not be any more blunt about the matter.

We also have the OT where YHWH is described as a singular God.

See why no one said anything about a trinity in the Bible? It's not what they believed.

Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
 
Easy. We have John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:6, and Eph. 4:6 in the NT that could not be any more blunt about the matter.

We also have the OT where YHWH is described as a singular God.

See why no one said anything about a trinity in the Bible? It's not what they believed.

Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
You rehash points that failed over and over again. Your denial of the divinity passages of Christ in the Godhead is the most significant deficiency. Your denial of the virgin birth is the super obvious point that you deny, which is so blatant it is shameful to deny it.
 
You rehash points that failed over and over again. Your denial of the divinity passages of Christ in the Godhead is the most significant deficiency. Your denial of the virgin birth is the super obvious point that you deny, which is so blatant it is shameful to deny it.
At least I can explain my beliefs with the Bible. I would not want to be in your shoes trying to persuade an intellectual to forsake logic and reason and then believe something that the Bible doesn't even describe. I honestly don't know how you sleep comfortably at night in this line of work. Do you honestly believe what you're saying about the trinity or do you have ulterior motives?
 
At least I can explain my beliefs with the Bible. I would not want to be in your shoes trying to persuade an intellectual to forsake logic and reason and then believe something that the Bible doesn't even describe. I honestly don't know how you sleep comfortably at night in this line of work. Do you honestly believe what you're saying about the trinity or do you have ulterior motives?
maybe you have explained some beliefs, but since you reject the virgin birth and deity of Christ, those beliefs are in vain and may indicate you do not know the true Christ. Denying the virgin birth would be a rookie mistake. You kept me wondering what you would say about that.
 
At least I can explain my beliefs with the Bible. I would not want to be in your shoes trying to persuade an intellectual to forsake logic and reason and then believe something that the Bible doesn't even describe. I honestly don't know how you sleep comfortably at night in this line of work. Do you honestly believe what you're saying about the trinity or do you have ulterior motives?
My friend:
@Runningman said that God and Jesus are presented in the Bible as separate persons . He said “God and Jesus”, not “The Father and Jesus”. Look at his original post below.
To this post you agreed, saying that you also believed that God and Jesus were not the same person. Please not how you were also referring to “God and Jesus”, not to “The Father and Jesus”.

So God is one person… and Jesus is another person. God is not a category encompassing many individuals. God is not like “plant” or “star”. There may be many individual plants and many individual stars. God, however admits only one individual. The Bible treats God like one single person: a “He”. Not like an assembly, board or team.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

The logic in Unitarianism is conventional. For example, when you and I are spoken of in the same sentence, it's intuitive that you and I are distinct persons. When God and Jesus are spoke of in the same sentence, it's intuitive they are not the same person. There isn't a special "Bible logic" used to understand the Bible. The Bible is the common person's book written in a way they can understand. Our God is not a God of confusion. Trinitarian logic has only sown endless chaos and confusion and it is not from God.
 
WHO WAS/IS THE WORD??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/
The Word is the word. It is not a person. It is not Yeshua of Nazareth.
The identification of Word as God in John 1:1 is a metaphor. The Bible also refers to the Wisdom poetically as if it had personhood. Same with the Light, the bread descended from heaven, the evening star.
Jesus is called The Word metaphorically because He spoke the word of His Father.
 
The Word is the word. It is not a person. It is not Yeshua of Nazareth.
The identification of Word as God in John 1:1 is a metaphor. The Bible also refers to the Wisdom poetically as if it had personhood. Same with the Light, the bread descended from heaven, the evening star.
Jesus is called The Word metaphorically because He spoke the word of His Father.

That would be a roundabout way to describe just the message of God being available to Jesus. You also have to reduce Got to being a "word" or a message. And how did the words become flesh unless human flesh? John 1 is not like Prov 8. Proverbs 8 personifies wisdom but only in the sense of underlying God's design of the world. It did not become flesh. It was not described as being God. So we see in scripture how Proverbs 8 actually speaks against John 1 just being a personification of the word. John 1 speaks not of a personification but of an incarnation. It would be pushing ideas too far to disclaim this logos as referring to Jesus.
 
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