Romans 4:5 and the justification of the ungodly

[brightfame52]

Why do you disregard scripture

Acts 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.

Longing to Go to Rome

Rom. 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.

Rom. 10:18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for
“Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.”

Rom. 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages 26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

Col. 1:5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth,

Col. 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

The just were Justified when they were ungodly

 

[TomL]

The just were Justified when they were ungodly

but believed

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[TomL]

The devout men are Jews who come to the Feast of Harvest from their homes in Gentile lands.
It was the remnant that returned to Israel. The majority stayed in Gentile lands like Assyrian or Babylon and places in-between.
Devout refers to proselytes and God-Fearers.

My text above was supposed to have been

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

showing faith is necessary to justification

 

[brightfame52]

but believed

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The just shall believe since they were already justified when ungodly

 

[TomL]

The just shall believe since they were already justified when ungodly

Faith precedes justification

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[jeremiah1five]

My text above was supposed to have been

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

showing faith is necessary to justification

It's not your faith by which you are justified but by the faith of Jesus Christ. It was His perfect faith the Father honored by which we are saved. He did what we could not and thus was our substitute under the Law. But let's be honest here. You're Gentile and were NEVER under the Law. So, Israel's Messiah, Redeemer, and King was the fulfillment of both covenant and prophecy and was sent by the Father to redeem His covenant people Israel. God has no covenant with Gentiles. Gentiles (non-Jews) are being saved in this present dispensation called the Times of the Gentiles without a covenant. In other words, while Israel can call God to honor promises God made in covenant with this people, Gentiles can't.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal. 2:16.

You, like everyone else, were dead in trespasses and sin. And just like Lazarus could exert nothing, not even faith, to your resurrection nor to your salvation until the voice of the Lord called out, "Tom, Come Forth!"

Faith is necessary to the justification of God's redeemed. Christ's perfect faith. Not yours.

Now, although Ephesians was written to Jewish Christians at Ephesus it is applicable to this situation here:

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:1.

You don't make distinction as to whose faith Saul is addressing in Galatians, but I'm going to guess that by your Gentile teaching you think and believe it's your that's in view.
Right?

 

[brightfame52]

Faith precedes justification

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

No scripture says Faith is before Justification, Justification is before believing, one is Justified before God by what Christ has done for them, one is Justified by Faith by what the Spirit does in them, it faith is a fruit of the Spirit

 

[civic]

Romans 4:5 (ESV) — 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Paul extols how the ungodly may be justified.

Through faith the ungodly may be justified

Great new for all the ungodly as even we once were

It seemed to me an innocuous statement all christians could agree on.

Boy was I ever wrong.

I ignited a fire storm on another forum with the statement

"God justifies believers."

I had to contend with posters who claimed God justifies unbelievers

because the verse states God justifies the ungodly

Posters do you have a problem with my statement, do you see it as something controversial

No don’t you know it’s through regeneration lol.

 

[civic]

No scripture says Faith is before Justification, Justification is before believing, one is Justified before God by what Christ has done for them, one is Justified by Faith by what the Spirit does in them, it faith is a fruit of the Spirit

And faith is before regeneration. No faith no salvation - the chain stops

 

[TomL]

No don’t you know it’s through regeneration lol.

 

[TomL]

No scripture says Faith is before Justification, Justification is before believing, one is Justified before God by what Christ has done for them, one is Justified by Faith by what the Spirit does in them, it faith is a fruit of the Spirit

You are in denial

Faith precedes justification

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[brightfame52]

And faith is before regeneration. No faith no salvation - the chain stops

You have been told this several times already.

 

[TomL]

You have been told this several times already.

You are wrong

John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

 

[brightfame52]

You are wrong

John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

Thats written to only the regenerate, born of God, the scriptures are written so that the regenerate sheep may believe and have life. Look at Jn 10:7-11

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Whose the they in Vs 10 that may have life ?

 

[civic]

Thats written to only the regenerate, born of God, the scriptures are written so that the regenerate sheep may believe and have life. Look at Jn 10:7-11

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Whose the they in Vs 10 that may have life ?

Yep the 12 are His sheep- not you or I in the text. Just more of your EISEGESIS.

 

[Grace ambassador]

Thats written to only the regenerate, born of God, the scriptures are written so that the regenerate sheep may believe and have life.

What? Who ever hear of "regenerate sheep" that had "death"? Also, what do "regenerate sheep"
have if they Never 'believe'?

methinks I better 'move away' from this Confusion, eh?

 

[brightfame52]

Yep the 12 are His sheep- not you or I in the text. Just more of your EISEGESIS.

Only for the Sheep

 

[brightfame52]

What? Who ever hear of "regenerate sheep" that had "death"? Also, what do "regenerate sheep"
have if they Never 'believe'?

methinks I better 'move away' from this Confusion, eh?

You heard of it now. Only the regenerate or born again spiritual people, Sheep shall believe.

 

[civic]

You heard of it now. Only the regenerate or born again spiritual people, Sheep shall believe.

Jesus even said that Judas was one of His sheep (Matt. 10:1-4, 16), who received His truth (Matt 10:1-4, 8)

Next

 

[TomL]

Thats written to only the regenerate, born of God, the scriptures are written so that the regenerate sheep may believe and have life. Look at Jn 10:7-11

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Whose the they in Vs 10 that may have life ?

Wrong one receives the right to become a child of God (born of God) by receiving Christ

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Regenerated given life by believing

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.