An example of how Calvinists presumption short circuit understanding

[TomL]

Unbelief of what?? FAITH and "Unbelief" are contradictory terms. BOTH can"t exist.

Of course a CALVINIST told me that being "Born again", and being "Saved" aren't the same thing, (apparently to calvinists "being regenerated" means that you're "Born again", but neither term means "Saved". Theology!!!! you gotta love it!!!!

No kidding. I never stated it made any sense

 

[360watt]

Calvinists absolutely hate this saying because they believe in "irresistible" grace.

Try bringing it up with one sometime, lol.

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I'll say it again...

While the wording of Revelation 3:20 could very well mean how Jesus knocks on an unbelievers heart to convict them to believe..

The actual context is about an entire church congregation overcoming characteristic problems in the said church.

The 'door' is the figurative door of membership to a local church.

That is the context.. not actually individual salvation.. even though the wording of it could be about individual salvation.

 

[Aeliana]

As I extolled elsewhere of my experiences on another forum, I had gotten in a rather intense discussion over the issue of justification. I had argued the ungodly were justified faith. To my surprise, I was attacked by multiple Calvinists including the forum moderator who stated God justifies the ungodly. I agreed adding the caveat when they believe. Well, that did not go over well. So I produced multiple verses speaking of justication by faith. It was denied that, this refutes their position in any manner. It was claimed that men are justified while in unbelief. No I stated men are justified by faith.

Well to my astonishment they agreed men are justified by faith even while holding that men are justified while still in unbelief. These are of course mutually contradictory propositions. The simple english phrase justified by faith was not understood. The word by which has a meaning which indicates the means by which something is achieved was totally overlooked.

What could have caused such a short-circuit in biblical and simple word understanding? I did not have time to ponder it at that time, but these are the conclusions I have since arrived at


Since the bible indicates the ungodly are justified

Romans 4:5 (ESV) — 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

it was assumed the ungodly cannot believe because of the doctrine of total inability. Their belief is faith can only be had after regeneration. And it I think they would not hold those spoken of could have been regenerated because it states they were ungodly. And soi it seems doctrinal presuppositions had prevented the understanding of what is a rather simple statement. The words of the bible were not allowed to speak for themselves

Now I would not ascribe this to all Calvinists as I believe this a rather extreme example which would be rejected by learned Calvinists, it does illustrate how presupposition can color one's understanding of biblical truth.

As a result of this discussion, I was labeled ignorant and denoted as being lost

By Golly...I think you're right

A short circuit occurs when electricity strays from its intended path and completes its journey via a shorter route—one of less resistance. This occurs when the flow of electricity is interrupted by a flaw in the established wiring. If a short circuit in your electrical system is not found and promptly fixed, it could produce sparks, smoke, or fire or cause electric shock.

Best definition of Calvinism I've ever heard. Just kidding. they're wonderful people.

 

[TomL]

By Golly...I think you're right

A short circuit occurs when electricity strays from its intended path and completes its journey via a shorter route—one of less resistance. This occurs when the flow of electricity is interrupted by a flaw in the established wiring. If a short circuit in your electrical system is not found and promptly fixed, it could produce sparks, smoke, or fire or cause electric shock.

Best definition of Calvinism I've ever heard. Just kidding. they're wonderful people.