All the Verses That Show Us Salvation Can Occur Without Water Baptism

[Seabass]

' I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you
that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
With all lowliness and meekness,
with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is
.. one body, and
,,,, one Spirit, even as ye are called in
...... one hope of your calling
........ One Lord,
.......... one faith,
............ one baptism,
.............. One God and Father of all,
Who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
But unto every one of us is given grace
according to the measure of the gift of Christ.'
(Eph 4:1-7)

These seven one make up the very foundation of NT Christianity. To reject any of these ones is to reject Christianity itself...to reject there is just one faith that saves is to reject Christianity itself. To reject there is just one body wherein is salvation is found is to reject Christianity itself. To reject there is just one Lord that saves is to reject Christianity itself. To reject there is just one Spirit that saves is to reject Christianity itself. To reject there is just one baptism that saves is to reject Christianity itself.

 

[101G]

My main point in that post was when one studies a topic, such as salvation, or any other topic one MUST examine ALL verse that deal with that topic to have a complete understanding of that topic. One cannot avoid verses that go against their personal theological bias.

The immediate context in Acts 16 does not say the jailer was saved before he was baptized. Furthermore that contradicts all the verse that put obedience (believing, repenting, confession, baptism) BEFORE salvation which is not Biblically possible. Not a single example in the NT of men being UNconditionally saved while they continued to live in disobedience, defiance of God's will. In all the conversions in Acts, men first had to obey God's will in order to be saved...no one saved while continuing to disobey God's will.

well why not obey God? if salvation to occure? was it not commanded to be baptized by God? againg, Matthew 21:23 "And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?" Matthew 21:24 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things." Matthew 21:25 "The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?" Matthew 21:26 "But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet."

is not obediance the basic of Salvation? ......... Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

so, do one hear God at Matthew 21:25 to obey?

101G.

 

[Seabass]

I was thinking about your screen name. I caught this white sea bass a few years ago in SF Bay

You did throw

well why not obey God? if salvation to occure? was it not commanded to be baptized by God? againg, Matthew 21:23 "And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?" Matthew 21:24 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things." Matthew 21:25 "The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?" Matthew 21:26 "But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet."

is not obediance the basic of Salvation? ......... Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

so, do one hear God at Matthew 21:25 to obey?

101G.

yes, salvation is impossible apart from obedience to God. The Bible makes clear it will be those who "obey not" to be the ones lost.

And it must be understood that obedience is not a work of merit.

A false logical progression made by some is:
1) being water baptized is a work of merit
2) works of merit cannot save
3) therefore water baptism cannot save

The whole progression is false because the first step in the progression is false. Nowhere does the Bible ever call or define being water baptized a work of merit one does to earn salvation. This progression then becomes like a strawman ...define water baptism in a wrong way in order to then knock it down.

 

[101G]

yes, salvation is impossible apart from obedience to God. The Bible makes clear it will be those who "obey not" to be the ones lost.

And it must be understood that obedience is not a work of merit.

thanks for you reply, but is not OBEDIANCE a work of God? scripture, John 6:26 "Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled." John 6:27 "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." John 6:28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" John 6:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

again HOW CAN ONE "BELIEVE" if they have not heard?. Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

101G.

 

[FreeInChrist]

My main point in that post was when one studies a topic, such as salvation, or any other topic one MUST examine ALL verse that deal with that topic to have a complete understanding of that topic. One cannot avoid verses that go against their personal theological bias.

What good would it do to have assorted verses on Baptism Saves when one is standing on their principles or even teaching
that it is through out the bible that says Salvation can occur without Baptism. The members of the Church of Christ will come right out and tell you that without the proper immersion baptism, after one has faith that you are not saved and not heaven bound. For them... and possibly you also?... it is the coming up out of the water that is the born again experience. Other churches also have their own thoughts on the subject. But the truth is... there is enough in the pages of the New Testament that allows one to see that the first part of Mark 16 is not the total story.

They need not be all mixed together, unless you are having a debate on the subject. This was not started as that, and should not end up that way,

The immediate context in Acts 16 does not say the jailer was saved before he was baptized.
And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.

26And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

27And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

28But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

BAPTISM CAME LAST, AFTER "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

Furthermore that contradicts all the verse that put obedience (believing, repenting, confession, baptism) BEFORE salvation which is not Biblically possible.

So the report of the Jailer is wrong. ....? Interesting

How about Stephanus?


The household of Stephanas is first mentioned in 1 Corinthians 1:16, where Paul states, "Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not remember if I baptized anyone else." This indicates that Stephanas and his household were among the first converts in Achaia, a region in Greece, and were personally baptized by Paul. Their conversion is significant as it marks the spread of Christianity beyond the Jewish community to the Gentile world.

So, here again the Baptism came after.

Lydia, Oh Lydia... Do you remember the song?

14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us.

So she worshipped God and then heard Paul.... THEN was Baptized.

Shall we go into the Eunuch who heard while traveling and then was Baptized after.?

Every one of these, as far as can be determined Heard, Believed, and were Baptized. No mention of repenting, confession.

Not a single example in the NT of men being UNconditionally saved while they continued to live in disobedience, defiance of God's will.

Just think about this for a moment. If there had been, do you honestly think it would have been smart to mention it is the bible?
That would give an out and out license to keep right on sinning.

Of those we have hear... there is no indication that they continued in their earthly ways.

In all the conversions in Acts, men first had to obey God's will in order to be saved...no one saved while continuing to disobey God's will.

 

[Complete]

Standing And The Mystery - Believer.com

Romans 6:3-4 . . . baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was rai...

believer.com

 

[Complete]

These seven one make up the very foundation of NT Christianity. To reject any of these ones is to reject Christianity itself...to reject there is just one faith that saves is to reject Christianity itself. To reject there is just one body wherein is salvation is found is to reject Christianity itself. To reject there is just one Lord that saves is to reject Christianity itself. To reject there is just one Spirit that saves is to reject Christianity itself. To reject there is just one baptism that saves is to reject Christianity itself.

'Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into His death?
Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.'
(Rom 6:3)

Hello @Seabass,

The believer is baptised into Christ's death, burial and resurrection. This is a dry baptism, no water involved. for it is not a ceremonial washing.

Standing And The Mystery - Believer.com

Romans 6:3-4 . . . baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was rai...

believer.com

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Complete ,

I read what you linked with fascination when I read what you wrote about a dry baptism, I made sure to read it twice.

But frankly I am unclear what this is. A dry, baptism. Is it a ceremony as other baptisms are or is it private?

Please explain.

Blessings

 

[Complete]

@Complete ,

I read what you linked with fascination when I read what you wrote about a dry baptism, I made sure to read it twice.

But frankly I am unclear what this is. A dry, baptism. Is it a ceremony as other baptisms are or is it private?

Please explain.

Blessings

'In Whom (Christ Jesus) also ye are circumcised
with the circumcision made without hands,
in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh
by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with Him in baptism, (His baptism)
wherein also ye are risen with Him (His resurrection)
through the faith of the operation of God,
Who hath raised Him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins
and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath He quickened together with Him,
having forgiven you all trespasses;...'
(Col 2:11-13a)

Hello @FreeInChrist,

Thank you for responding.

No ceremony: I believe it takes place the moment that faith enters in, through the hearing of the gospel message; and we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord. At that moment we are sealed by God -The Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30).

We are identified with Christ in His death, His burial, His quickening, His resurrection. God now reckons us to be alive unto Him. We now walk in newness of life before the Father (Rom. 6:4). We have died, and our life is now hid with Christ in God (Col. 3:3).

By the same reckoning of faith, we reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God (Rom. 6:11). We simply believe God and it is counted (i.e.,reckoned) unto us for righteousness (Rom. 4:5)

* It is indeed private, as you say, between ourselves and God.

Please forgive the disjointed manner in which I replied.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Believer]

What is the proper way for a person to be baptized? Is there a specific mode of baptism that is essential to the authenticity of the sacrament? Of all the debates that have attended the sacrament of baptism, the question of the proper mode has become and remained one of the most persistent and divisive.

Various churches in Christian history have answered this question by asserting that one method or another is the only valid method. Some have argued that the New Testament method of baptism is immersion, and some have gone so far as to insist that if a person is not baptized by immersion, he is not genuinely baptized.

Then we have those that say immersion is not even a legitimate form of baptism. Of course, each of the other modes—sprinkling, pouring, and dipping all have people that say their way is the right way

I do not think these kinds of debates are carried on by people who like to argue simply for the sake of argument. I believe these differences arise because sincere Christians have a genuine and deep desire to do what is pleasing to God, so they want to perform baptism biblically. If a person believes that Scripture commands that baptism be performed by immersion, he might legitimately come to the conclusion that unless immersion is practiced, something less than baptism takes place.

The question, of course, is whether Scripture actually commands one specific mode of baptism. This is not an easy question to answer.

 

[FreeInChrist]

'In Whom (Christ Jesus) also ye are circumcised
with the circumcision made without hands,
in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh
by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with Him in baptism, (His baptism)
wherein also ye are risen with Him (His resurrection)
through the faith of the operation of God,
Who hath raised Him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins
and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath He quickened together with Him,
having forgiven you all trespasses;...'
(Col 2:11-13a)

Hello @FreeInChrist,

Thank you for responding.

No ceremony: I believe it takes place the moment that faith enters in, through the hearing of the gospel message; and we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord. At that moment we are sealed by God -The Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30).

We are identified with Christ in His death, His burial, His quickening, His resurrection. God now reckons us to be alive unto Him. We now walk in newness of life before the Father (Rom. 6:4). We have died, and our life is now hid with Christ in God (Col. 3:3).

By the same reckoning of faith, we reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God (Rom. 6:11). We simply believe God and it is counted (i.e.,reckoned) unto us for righteousness (Rom. 4:5)

* It is indeed private, as you say, between ourselves and God.

Please forgive the disjointed manner in which I replied.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you for the explanation. I did not find you disjointed, but that could be
because I tent to think in a disjointed manner. Anyway, I understood you perfectly.

This makes perfect sense to me when it is our spirits involved with our being born again.

Blessings