Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
synergy
Well-known member
Now you go running off making remarks about "free will" when you haven't even given us any definition of what you think "free will" is. So what is "free will" to you? You have it open to such a broad definition scope that I can venture to say that "free will" is the will to be free of calvinist heresies.
synergy
Well-known member
Not only is your English grammar horrendous but you're coming off as dull and boring in your comments. No wonder you were driven out of your fundamental bible college.
You have reading difficulty
Luke 8:13 (NASB95) — 13 “Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
You are dodging, which is why you do not quote what you are replying to and do not respond to in a forthright manner.
DavidTree
Well-known member
synergy
Well-known member
You're trying to find a hidden message in those words?
MTMattie
Well-known member
Who is deceiving me? I know without shadow of a doubt that Jesus was born from a virgin. I know he was crucified and buried. I know he was resurrected and sits on the right hand of God and will judge the living and the dead. I know the blood shed on the cross was shed for those who believe.... IOW have faith and understanding.
I know Faith is necessary for salvation—we must believe certain truths in order to be saved. “It is through faith that a righteous person has life” (Romans 1:17, ), and “without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6). The truth we must believe is the gospel, the good news that Jesus died for our sin and rose again the third day (see 1 Corinthians 15:1–8). We must have faith in the truth of this gospel. In other words, we must trust Christ and His work on our behalf. Salvation is found in no one else (Acts 4:12).
Do you? What has your studies shown you other then God predestined you, and therefore you believe.....
But how do you know you have not been deceived?
DO YOU KNOW WHY YOU BELIEVE?
I DO.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE?
I DO.
AND WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT gives you the surety that salvation will be at the end of your mortal life?
You claim that God predestined you and then chose you to understand faith. But I do not think you do.... understand it like you believe.
I think you are allowing yourself to rest comfortably in what you believe you think you know.
Why do I say this?
Because you are a repeat and repeat copy and paste against all who disagree with you about those who exercise their biblical free will
simply because you cannot understand that people can and do hear, and read, and watch, and see and then they know what they have read, heard, and seen is the truth.
If you want to back up your beliefs then you need to get on the ball and study and know of what you speak but you do not do that.
Just a handful of sayings.
Be it right or be it wrong, when the church, and my parents, and my friends started to talk from the moment I could understand, after my baby baptism, and they followed the church direction... and they brought me up in the way I should go.... I started my personal quest of knowledge when I was about 21, reading the bible yet having my Calvinistic boss tell me I could not understand unless I was using a concordance....
that everyone was saved and kind of poopooed the idea of me actually reading the bible.... (I could say so much for this Calvin believer... but it is not my place to judge... at least not out here in the open.) But it was me who chose to learn because of how I was brought up and because I thought I was to the age I should know.
Now, if you are still reading..... and if I dont run out of room.... learn something about faith...............................................
The Necessity of
1.
Faith is a foundational concept in Christianity, often defined as complete trust or confidence in God and His promises. In the New Testament, faith is described as a firm belief in the unseen realities of God and His word.- Hebrews 11:1 (NKJV): “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
2.
God’s requirement for faith in the salvation process reflects His desire for a personal and genuine relationship with humanity. Salvation, according to Christian doctrine, is not achieved through human effort or merit but through faith in Jesus Christ. (You will note there is nothing about God having predestined anyone for salvation.)- Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV): “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
3.
The New Covenant established through Jesus Christ redefines the relationship between God and humanity. Under this new covenant, faith becomes central to salvation, distinguishing the Christian faith from the Old Covenant, which involved adherence to the Law.- Romans 3:28 (NKJV): “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”
4.
Jesus Christ’s teachings and actions continually reinforce the necessity of faith. He performed miracles and offered teachings that were designed to cultivate faith in Him as the Son of God and the Savior.- John 3:16 (NKJV): “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
5.
God’s requirement for faith also reflects His desire for a responsive relationship with humanity. Faith is not merely an intellectual assent but a personal response to God’s revelation and invitation. (But not based on predestination)- Romans 10:17 (NKJV): “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
6.
Justification, or being declared righteous before God, is a critical aspect of salvation. Faith is the means by which individuals are justified, signifying a legal declaration of righteousness based on their belief in Christ.(But not from predestination)- Galatians 2:16 (NKJV): “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”
7.
Faith involves a personal relationship with God, characterized by trust, dependence, and commitment. It is through faith that individuals enter into a dynamic relationship with God, experiencing His presence and guidance in their lives.(Oh boy..... a truth that is worth its weight in blessings.)
- 2 Corinthians 5:7 (NKJV): “For we walk by faith, not by sight.”
8.
While faith is the means of receiving salvation, it also leads to obedience. Genuine faith in God results in a transformed life characterized by following His commands and living in accordance with His will.( NOTE: FAITH FIRST)- James 2:19 (NKJV): “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!”
9.
Faith provides believers with assurance of their salvation. It is through faith that individuals can be confident in their eternal security and relationship with God.- 1 John 5:13 (NKJV): “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.”
10.
Faith is not a passive experience but one that bears fruit in the believer’s life. The evidence of true faith is manifested through the fruits of the Spirit, which reflect the transformative power of faith in action. ( I CAN TESTIFY TO THIS)- Galatians 5:22-23 (NKJV): “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.”
11.
God requires faith for salvation because it is universally accessible. Faith does not depend on specific cultural, social, or economic conditions but is available to all who seek it.- Acts 10:34-35 (NKJV): “Then Peter opened his mouth and said: ‘In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.’”
12.
Ultimately, faith is required for salvation because it is through faith that individuals enter into eternal life. Faith in Jesus Christ is the gateway to a future with God that transcends physical death.- John 6:47 (NKJV): “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”
Conclusion
God’s requirement for faith in the salvation process is deeply rooted in His desire for a personal, trusting relationship with humanity. Faith serves as the means by which individuals access God’s grace, receive justification, and enter into eternal life. It reflects a universal invitation that transcends human efforts and is accessible to all who believe in Jesus Christ. Faith is not merely a mental assent but a transformative, relational trust that leads to obedience and spiritual growth. Through faith, believers experience the fullness of salvation and assurance of their place in God’s eternal kingdom.
Obadiah
Well-known member
I'm not sad as I know Calvinism is a lie. I know the Truth and that makes me Happy, Joyous, and Free. The truth will set you free.
I put on the whole armor of God
The shield is one part of the armor like to defend against the Lies found in Calvinism....
"We take the Shield of Faith! May we be ready for Satan's fiery darts of doubt, denial, and deceit so we will not be vulnerable to spiritual defeat."
brightfame52
Well-known member
does the scripture say they did
brightfame52
Well-known member
@MTMattie
Since you asked, who else Rev 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 20:7-8
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Since you asked, who else Rev 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 20:7-8
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
brightfame52
Well-known member
DavidTree
Well-known member
@civic
Took my son, Micaiah(23) first time to Pine Creek, PA
Google pics of Pine Creek. PA = they call it the Grand Canyon of the East
We caught some beautiful 'hold-over' Rainbows and Browns.
Micaiah wanted to learn fly fishing and was unable to hook into a trout so i gave him my spinning rod, walked away and prayed.
One minute later i hear Micaiah shouting "i got one" ..............turned out to be a monster 21" Brown = awesome fight.
We landed and released this Beauty but no pics as the phones were left in the truck.
I am still thanking God everyday for His Blessing for Micaiah as he is SAVED, but going thru a difficult time right now.
Lift Micaiah up that his faith grows stronger during this time - Thank You Brother
Took my son, Micaiah(23) first time to Pine Creek, PA
Google pics of Pine Creek. PA = they call it the Grand Canyon of the East
We caught some beautiful 'hold-over' Rainbows and Browns.
Micaiah wanted to learn fly fishing and was unable to hook into a trout so i gave him my spinning rod, walked away and prayed.
One minute later i hear Micaiah shouting "i got one" ..............turned out to be a monster 21" Brown = awesome fight.
We landed and released this Beauty but no pics as the phones were left in the truck.
I am still thanking God everyday for His Blessing for Micaiah as he is SAVED, but going thru a difficult time right now.
Lift Micaiah up that his faith grows stronger during this time - Thank You Brother
MTMattie
Well-known member
Then there be nothing I can do about it. Right?
But Satan deceiving the nations... has been ongoing for neigh onto 6,000 years does not line up with what
Johnnie said " God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death
Johnnie and the WCF say that before creation of the world the Heavenly Father would “bar from access to” salvation certain people.
There is no mention in YOUR predestined life that before time Satan shall deceive those because if they are barred they will never need to be deceived. The only ones that would need to be deceived are those with free will that you already have tried and condemned..... UNLESS, IOW those reprobate are those that God has turned loose to Satan. Right?
Except, they are the reprobate and have no need of deception for they likely could be one of Satan's decuples.
You are going to have to do better then to pull the old "The Devil made you do it" card.
Because if one is born into sin, (which I never asked to be). And then will die into whatever awaits, (Which would not be anyones choice)
As this is what you believe and follow......
WOW.
brightfame52
Well-known member
MTMattie
Well-known member
Well, be it up to you... I am a doner.
Hope the Heavenly Father is proud of you.
Permanently ignored.
Can you read?
Luke 8:13 (NASB95) — 13 “Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Ahar
Active member
Gospel Truth as far as Calvinists go is thy are are still spiritually dead.
The concept of spiritual death is a significant theme in biblical theology, particularly in relation to the nature of sin, salvation, and the transformative power of the gospel. To understand why spiritual death is not about a moral inability but rather a state of separation from the life offered by the gospel, we can explore several key biblical principles.
1. Definition of Spiritual Death
Spiritual death is primarily understood as separation from God due to sin. This is evident in passages like Ephesians 2:1-3, which states, “And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked.” Here, “dead” indicates a state of being separated from the life and relationship that God offers. This separation is not about moral incapacity but signifies a profound disconnection from the source of life, which is God Himself.
2. The Nature of Sin and Separation
In Isaiah 59:2, it is stated, “But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God.” This verse emphasizes that sin creates a barrier between humanity and God, resulting in spiritual death. Rather than indicating an inability to respond positively, this separation suggests that individuals are estranged from the divine life, which they were created to enjoy. It highlights the relational aspect of spiritual death—humanity’s alienation from God rather than a complete moral inability to choose good.
3. God’s Initiative in Redemption
The biblical narrative consistently shows that God takes the initiative to restore the relationship that sin has broken. In John 3:16, we see that “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” Here, the offer of life is extended to all, indicating that while spiritual death creates a barrier, it does not eliminate the possibility of response to God’s appeal. God’s gracious work through the gospel enables individuals to respond to the truth they otherwise would have never known (Rom. 10:13).
4. The Role of the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in awakening individuals to their need for God. In John 16:8, Jesus mentions that the Holy Spirit will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness. This conviction suggests that while people are spiritually dead, they are still capable of responding to the Spirit’s work. The Spirit’s role is to illuminate the truth of the gospel and draw individuals toward the life offered through Christ. This indicates that spiritual death does not equate to an inability to respond but rather a need for divine intervention. The incarnation, crucifixion, resurrection, inspiration of scripture and commissioning of the Bride of Christ are some of the ways God has chosen to intervene; to which all mankind is able to respond and thus is held justly responsible.
5. Human Responsibility and Response
The Bible consistently calls individuals to respond to God’s invitation to life. In Deuteronomy 30:19, God sets before His people life and death, urging them to choose life. This call implies that despite their spiritual condition, people have the capacity to respond to God’s offer. Romans 10:13 reinforces this idea, stating, “For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” The emphasis here is on the opportunity for response rather than an innate deterministic inability.
Conclusion
In summary, spiritual death in the biblical context refers to a state of separation from the life that God offers through the gospel. It underscores the relational rupture caused by sin, rather than an inability to respond to God. The biblical narrative highlights God’s initiative in redemption, the convicting work of the Holy Spirit, and the inherent responsibility of individuals to respond to the divine call. Thus, spiritual death is best understood as a separation due to our own rebellion that necessitates God’s grace and intervention, allowing for the possibility of a positive response to the gospel and the restoration of life in Christ.
Reflections of a Disenchanted Calvinist by Tim Cary
His handling of scripture is horrendous.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yeah says nothing about having ability to believe. That person didnt have understanding. That was fake believing, Believing is when you believe and understand and bear fruit Matt 13:23
23ut he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
See that one has a good ground heart, regenerated
