brightfame52
Well-known member
May as well repeat the truth. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, that cannot change Gal 5:22; 1 Pet 1:22
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
sorry if it doesn't agree with scripture it is not the truth
unbelievers do not have the Spirit or the fruit of the Spirit
John 15:4–5 (ESV) — 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
If you are not in Christ by the indwelling Spirit through faith you cannot bear fruit.
The fruit of the spirit is for those indwelt by the Spirit
Galatians 5:16–18 (NASB 2020) — 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
The passage does not concern unbelievers being imparted faith
you are twisting the passage out of its context
brightfame52
Well-known member
Again, Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 when a spiritually dead elect unbeliever is regenerated by the spirit, they receive the fruit of Faith to believe.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
You are conflating the fruit of the Spirit, which is something given to man by God, with bearing fruit, which is something man does by virtue of the Spirit.
Rockson
Well-known member
I want you to say with your words you do not believe God wants everyone to obey the gospel. You imply it but I'm sorry but it seems you run away from making any clear statement that way. Now I know why you don't ...for it looks absolutely ridiculous to be claiming that but let's face it....that's what you believe. Seeing YOU DO believe that then I'd like you to tell me and if you won't maybe another Calvinist will why then should God punish someone of whom it is not his will that they obey the gospel?
The fruit of the Spirit is not given to unbelievers to cause them to believe
If that is what you think, you are in error. Context does not support that idea
Galatians 5:16–26 (NASB 2020) — 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well. 26 Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.
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brightfame52
Well-known member
What did I just post?
Sorry that is found no where in scripture
A spiritually dead man does not have the fruit of the spirit because he does not have the spirit
and context shows it is believers who are in view not unbelievwers
Galatians 5:16–26 (NASB 2020) — 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well. 26 Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.
unbelievers are not led by the Spirit, do not walk by the spirit, live by the spirit
Rockson
Well-known member
Sorry BF52 but I'm content to know most readers can see you won't answer an important question about your beliefs. I'm good with that. I believe I've made my point.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Again, Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 when a spiritually dead elect unbeliever is regenerated by the spirit, they receive the fruit of Faith to believe.
brightfame52
Well-known member
I have posted what I believe clearly
You just ignored scripture to tout your theology
A spiritually dead man does not have the fruit of the spirit because he does not have the spirit
and context shows it is believers who are in view, not unbelievers
Galatians 5:16–26 (NASB 2020) — 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well. 26 Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.
Unbelievers are not led by the Spirit, do not walk by the spirit, live by the spirit
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, its stated as plain as day Gal 5:22
You failed to address this
A spiritually dead man does not have the fruit of the spirit because he does not have the spirit
and context shows it is believers who are in view, not unbelievers
Galatians 5:16–26 (NASB 2020) — 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well. 26 Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.
Unbelievers are not led by the Spirit, do not walk by the spirit, live by the spirit
brightfame52
Well-known member
I dont need to address anything, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. 1 Pet 1:22
sorry it does not help you as unbelievers do not have the fruit of the Spirit
and context shows it is believers who are in view, not unbelievers
Galatians 5:16–26 (NASB 2020) — 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well. 26 Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.
Unbelievers are not led by the Spirit, do not walk by the spirit, live by the spirit
Fruit of the Spirit
Fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the result of the Holy Spirit’s presence and working in the lives of maturing believers and is itemized in Galatians 5:22–23. In the context of these…
Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, pp 274–275
Fruit of the Spirit. Expression taken from Galatians 5:22, 23. As listed there, this fruit is the manifest evidence one may expect from a life in which the Spirit of God is living and reigning. Jesus also implied that the character of a life can be determined. In the context of Matthew 7, the test for false prophets is, among other things, the kind of life they live. Consequently, even though Jesus did prohibit censorious criticism of others by his followers (Mt 7:1), he encouraged fruit inspection. The secret to exhibiting spiritual fruit in abundance is described in John 12:24. Using as an illustration a grain of wheat sown in the ground, Jesus encourages death to self and to the desires of the old nature and resurrection to the new life of “much fruit.”
Wesley L. Gerig, “Fruit of the Spirit,” Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988), 818.
The “fruit of the Spirit” (Gal. 5:22f) is the natural outcome of the Spirit’s presence within all believers, while the “gifts of the Spirit” reflect the divine penchant for variety. The healthiest Christian communities will value both the fruit and the gifts of the Spirit and will neglect neither.
R. P. Spittler, “Spiritual Gifts,” ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988), 604.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Elect unbelieving sinners who Christ redeemed are regenerated by the Spirit then believe. 1 Pet 1:2
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Okay, then, using your own choice of scripture, 'splain to me how someone who is walking by the flesh can, of his own power and will, have faith in the Gospel?
This is the core problem with free-willism. "Who then, can be saved?" “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
So, you (free-willers) are claiming credit for something God does. You are claiming credit for something impossible for man to do. I can't imagine how God could possibly be pleased by that. How does one make his calling and election sure if he doesn't give credit where credit is due? "For it is God who works in you both to WILL and to DO according to His good pleasure."
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Among other things - BUT HEY!!!! It's nothing but "Theology" after all!!
Bad theology
