It was a present reality hence David prayed the Spirit would not leave him.
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
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He was also told he should have known theses things. John 3:9 He was a teacher of Israel
brightfame52
Well-known member
So Faith, belief in the Truth is effectually caused, produced by the Sanctifying work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Which goes to confirm that Salvation Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit/effect of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
The word fruit can also mean effect
brightfame52
Well-known member
You still saying something man does ultimately made the difference, now its being submissive to mercys desire, such a jacked up comment. The desire of Gods Mercy, no such animal, God sovereignly has mercy on whom He wills Rom 9 18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Has absolutely nothing to do with mans willing Rom 9 16
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Salvific Faith is a principle of operation, a spiritual law that governs the lives of the redeemed and regenerate, its the Law of Faith Rom 3:27
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Law nomos also means:
of a force or influence impelling to action;
So this law of Faith is given in regeneration of the Spirit, promised in the New Covenant Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Man by nature doesnt have nor can work this type of faith in themselves, hence God undertook to do it in Covenant Mercy, which Covenant Christ is the Mediator of .
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Law nomos also means:
of a force or influence impelling to action;
So this law of Faith is given in regeneration of the Spirit, promised in the New Covenant Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Man by nature doesnt have nor can work this type of faith in themselves, hence God undertook to do it in Covenant Mercy, which Covenant Christ is the Mediator of .
It's not enough that you believe that Regeneration (being made Alive) comes before Belief (still Dead in sins), aka: the Living Dead. Now you want us to believe that Sanctification comes before Belief. What's next: Glorification comes before Belief?!?! What anti-Bible hogwash.
Duh you need faith before receiving the spirit
John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Gal. 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal. 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal. 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Gal. 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Eph. 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
So Gal 5:22 is not speaking of saving faith
and you simply ignore the whole council of God
Sorry you beg the question and ignore the facts
If it was a present reality, why would it be held out as a future promise
Ezekiel 36:22–27 (KJV 1900) — 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Because they were the only ones said to have the Spirit and it was for the purpose of service, not personal regeneration
John 7:39 (NASB 2020) — 39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
David prayed the Spirit would not leave Him. Why would he pray for something not to leave him if the Spirit was not present?
brightfame52
Well-known member
So Faith, belief in the Truth is effectually caused, produced by the Sanctifying work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Which goes to confirm that Salvation Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit/effect of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
The word fruit can also mean effect
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith, its as plain as the noon day Sun, is the fruit /effect of the Spirit Gal 5:22 dont tell me you believe the scripture.
Your mindless repetition cannot deal with scripture
Duh you need faith before receiving the spirit
John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Gal. 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal. 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal. 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Eph. 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
So Gal 5:22 is not speaking of saving faith
and you simply ignore the whole council of God
You said that already and ignored the faith that the Spirits indwelling effecting regeneration was not what the O.T. saibnts experienced.. Rather they were empowered for service
As shown by
John 7:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
even up to the time of Christ advent was still not given
and in the O.T. it was announced as a future promise
Ezekiel 36:22–28 (KJV 1900) — 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
None of what you wrote proves Regeneration or Sanctification occurs before Belief. So it's back to everything being synergistic which destroys Calvinism.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith, its as plain as the noon day Sun, is the fruit /effect of the Spirit Gal 5:22 dont tell me you believe the scripture.
brightfame52
Well-known member
So Faith, belief in the Truth is effectually caused, produced by the Sanctifying work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Which goes to confirm that Salvation Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit/effect of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
The word fruit can also mean effect
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith in Jesus Christ is not of ourselves, its the Gift of God,
Certainly it took faith for Peter to make this confession Matt 16:15-17
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Now was this confession of Faith in Christ from peter naturally ? Or was it not of himself but a Gift of God ?
Certainly it took faith for Peter to make this confession Matt 16:15-17
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Now was this confession of Faith in Christ from peter naturally ? Or was it not of himself but a Gift of God ?
brightfame52
Well-known member
If we say Salvation Faith is from ourselves, we are saying a carnal person of the flesh, dead in sin, made a life changing Spiritual decision to become a Child of God, Gal 3 26
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.,
Instead of contributing Faith to the Power of God and His Grace, its been reduced to a quality found in flesh and blood, human nature.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.,
Instead of contributing Faith to the Power of God and His Grace, its been reduced to a quality found in flesh and blood, human nature.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Pelagianism, or at least semi-pelagianism.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is not of ourselves, it flows from the Sanctification of the Spirit, hence has purifying properties, hence we read in Acts 15:9
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now can we as dead unregenerate sinners claim such a Property came from ourselves ? Can they in the flesh do such a thing ? Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now can we as dead unregenerate sinners claim such a Property came from ourselves ? Can they in the flesh do such a thing ? Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
