Nowhere does it say just leaders and prophets possessed the Spirit.
Was Saul a geniune believer?
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
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Was Saul a geniune believer?
civic
Well-known member
repeating the same error over and over does not change the biblical facts I have presented.
Saul was a king and the Spirit left him
Post a verse showing all the common folk had received the spirit
and explain why this is spoken of as future
Ezekiel 36:22–27 (KJV 1900) — 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Laughter is a form of mocking
civic
Well-known member
Some refuse to admit the truth. I know I'm guilty of it at times. You are right it most of the times is mocking unless we are laughing at a joke but even then it could be considered mocking depending on the joke.
YepSome refuse to admit the truth. I know I'm guilty of it at times. You are right it most of the times is mocking unless we are laughing at a joke but even then it could be considered mocking depending on the joke.
Or the facts I have presented. The very words of our Lord Himself. No man means no man.
It can be, but not necessarily.
So. What does that mean?
Also the claim was only kings and prophets in the OT had the Spirit. Where is that written?
If it was a present reality, why would it be held out as a future promise
Ezekiel 36:22–27 (KJV 1900) — 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Because they were the only ones said to have the Spirit
But in response to a claim it is clear form of derision
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is effectually caused because God is to be thanked when the word is received in a conversion experience 1 Thess 2:13
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
And this is because they were elect as we see in 1 Thess 1:4-6
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you[The elect] in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
Sorry but that appears to be another assumption
It is their behavior after believing because of God's word working in them
And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
after previously exhorting them
1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
civic
Well-known member
Yep
brightfame52
Well-known member
Assumption this:
Faith is effectually caused because God is to be thanked when the word is received in a conversion experience 1 Thess 2:13
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
And this is because they were elect as we see in 1 Thess 1:4-6
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you[The elect] in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes. they were Matt 22 43
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
This is a reference to Ps 110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
And he told how one can be born again
John 3:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
as had John
John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(5) The “children of God.”—Those who are “begotten of God” are ipso facto “children of God” (tékna theoú, Jn 1:12; 11:52; 1 Jn 3:1, 2, 10; 5:2).1
1 R. Law, “Johannine, Theology, The,” ed. James Orr et al., The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia (Chicago: The Howard-Severance Company, 1915), 1703.
CHILDREN OF GOD. Persons in this category are only those who of the fallen race are regenerated as a result of faith in Christ1
1 Merrill F. Unger, “Children of God,” ed. R.K. Harrison, The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988).
Children of God (tekna theou). In the full spiritual sense, not as mere offspring of God true of all men (Acts 17:28). Paul's phrase huioi theou (Galatians 3:26) for believers, used also by Jesus of the pure in heart (Matthew 5:9), does not occur in John's Gospel (but in Rev. 21:7). It is possible that John prefers ta tekna tou theou for the spiritual children of God whether Jew or Gentile (John 11:52) because of the community of nature (teknon from root tek-, to beget). But one cannot follow Westcott in insisting on "adoption" as Paul's reason for the use of huioi since Jesus uses huioi theou in Matthew 5:9. Clearly the idea of regeneration is involved here as in John 3:3.
Word Pictures in the New Testament.
Vincent agrees
Sons (τέκνα)
Rev., more correctly, children. Son is υἱός. Τέκνον, child (τίκτω, to bring forth), denotes a relation based on community of nature
Word Studies in the New Testament.
τέκνα θ. γενέσθαι] The spiritual life owes its beginning to a birth from above, ch. 3:3–7. And this birth is owing to the Holy Spirit of God; so that this is equivalent to saying, ‘As many as received Him, to them gave He His Holy Spirit.’ And we find that it was so: see Acts 10:44.
Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 684.
As noted previously
Sorry but that appears to be another assumption
It is their behavior after believing because of God's word working in them
And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
after previously exhorting them
1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats why God is Thanked for them receiving the word of Truth, because its Gods work of power that caused it 1 Thess 1:2-6
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
Believing is the Work of God, particular God the Spirit Jn 6;29
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
No, it is the work of man to believe. God gave us free will so powerful that we can, by our own free will, thwart the purpose and desire of God. Bow down to man, whose will is greater than God's will. Worship the creation, not the creator.
--Free Willers
