civic
Well-known member
Of course it’s biblical and it’s the truth
Rapture Ready
- Thread starter Eleazar
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civic
Well-known member
Did the disciples have the SEAL of the Holy Spirit? NO not until PENTECOST.
Ephesians 1
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
If you have not the Spirit you are none of His.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Corinthians 2
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
And here is a newsflash the disciples did not understand so many things prior to Pentecost as Jesus promised He would bring to remembrance the things He had taught them.
John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
John 16:7
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
John 16:17-18
At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”
Jesus had told them NUMEROUS times about His passion yet they did not understand this until the Spirit was in them. Once again proving 1 Corinthians 2 the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.
Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?
Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
Jesus Predicts His Death a Third Time
Luke 18:31
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem,and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him;33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”
34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about
I can provide NUMEROUS other scriptures showing the disciples did not understand Jesus teachings until after Pentecost.
hope this helps !!!
Ephesians 1
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
If you have not the Spirit you are none of His.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Corinthians 2
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
And here is a newsflash the disciples did not understand so many things prior to Pentecost as Jesus promised He would bring to remembrance the things He had taught them.
John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
John 16:7
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
John 16:17-18
At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”
Jesus had told them NUMEROUS times about His passion yet they did not understand this until the Spirit was in them. Once again proving 1 Corinthians 2 the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.
Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?
Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
Jesus Predicts His Death a Third Time
Luke 18:31
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem,and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him;33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”
34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about
I can provide NUMEROUS other scriptures showing the disciples did not understand Jesus teachings until after Pentecost.
hope this helps !!!
DavidTree
Well-known member
The whole context of the Bible is from over 2,000 years ago, people long dead and gone.
Your context view, when used in the manner you are applying, is unBiblical from God's View.
Context has it's place, should always be used at first look, but it is not the Holy Spirit and it is not "thus saith the Lord".
Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.”
Did God promise the SAME Holy Spirit as was given to the Apostles AND the Disciples to us who BELIEVE?
Be careful here to obey the LORD: "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Johann
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
You are not an apostle it’s as simple as that , you have no authority over the church. They are the foundation on which the church was built. See Ephesians 2.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
One has to be humble , open and teachable to receive truth.
God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble .
God is humble and we are to be imitators of Christ .
DavidTree
Well-known member
@civic "Don't believe a lie as if that is a promise for you. Its not"
Don't believe a lie with a lie?
Are saying that the LORD lied to us about the Promise of the FATHER?
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
I am ASKING you @civic = Is the Promise of the Holy Spirit to the Apostles and no one else?
civic
Well-known member
It was a promise to them not you. No one but the Apostles knew all the truth- THEY wrote Scripture ands were guided by the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus. It doesn't apply to you. If you believe that you are believing a lie.
The context is a direct promise to THEM.
Also you have committed the false dichotomy fallacy.
hope this helps !!!
Johann
Well-known member
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
In Moshiach you also, having heard the message of HaEmes, the Besuras HaGeulah of Yeshu'at Eloheinu which is yours, having also come to emunah, received your chotam (seal) in Moshiach with the Ruach Hakodesh of havtachah (promise),
Eph 1:14 Who is bestowed as an eravon (pledge) of our nachalah (allotted inheritance, TEHILLIM 16:5-6), with a view to the Geulah of Hashem's own possession, to the tehilat kavod (praise of glory) of Him.
the earnest: Rom_8:15-17, Rom_8:23; 2Co_1:22, 2Co_5:5; Gal_4:6
the redemption: Eph_4:30; Lev_25:24-34; Psa_74:2, Psa_78:54; Jer_32:7-8; Luk_21:28; Act_20:28; Rom_8:23; 1Pe_2:9 *marg.
unto: Eph_1:6, Eph_1:12
Who said otherwise?
J.
civic
Well-known member
There are no prophets/apostles. They ceased with the 12 when they died. And the real prophets were not basing their calling upon subjective feelings and experience but objective truth upon Gods revelation with specific things and details that would come to pass with warnings and consequences if their was no repentance. Other prophecies were how God would move nations/kings to accomplish His purposes and others the details of His coming Messiah. There are no prophets today like there was in Biblical times. That ended with the very last of Gods prophets John who wrote the Revelation. Those who call themselves a Prophet like John, Daniel, Ezekiel and the Minor Prophets are on nothing but an ego trip.
Ephesians 2
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
There can be no other foundation. The foundation was built with those Apostles and Prophets in the N.T. It’s over no more foundations can be built. Those who try are on sinking sand and the entire structure collapses. Those offices are over in the church with Apostles/Prophets. John was the very last one who held those offices in the Church. When he died so did those offices.
If anyone thinks they still exist then the Catholic Church is right with the Succession of Peter with the Popes.
hope this helps !!!
Ephesians 2
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
There can be no other foundation. The foundation was built with those Apostles and Prophets in the N.T. It’s over no more foundations can be built. Those who try are on sinking sand and the entire structure collapses. Those offices are over in the church with Apostles/Prophets. John was the very last one who held those offices in the Church. When he died so did those offices.
If anyone thinks they still exist then the Catholic Church is right with the Succession of Peter with the Popes.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
The difference between Apostles and the rest of us mere mortals. Notice I'm using the Bible not my opinion.
Luke 1:1-2
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
Ephesians 2:19-20
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
Acts 1:21-22
Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
1 Corinthians 9:1-2
Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? 2 Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:8-9
8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
Revelation 21:14
The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
The Apostles also performed miracles, signs and wonders as confirmation they were sent by God/Christ. Acts 2:43 cf 2 Corinthians 2:12
FACTS below from the above
1- Must be an eyewitness of Jesus Resurrection
2- Must be chosen by Christ
3- They are the foundation the church was built upon
4- The last Apostle was Paul- last of all Jesus appeared to me ( Paul)
5- Jesus appoints them as His chosen instruments.
6- There are only 12 foundation stones which are the 12 Apostles- not 13, 50, 100, 1000 etc...... only 12
7- Those Apostles performed miracles, signs and wonders at will proving they were Jesus chosen 12 just as He performed those same miracles, signs and wonders authenticating their message was directly from God.
hope this helps !!!
Luke 1:1-2
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
Ephesians 2:19-20
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
Acts 1:21-22
Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
1 Corinthians 9:1-2
Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? 2 Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:8-9
8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
Revelation 21:14
The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
The Apostles also performed miracles, signs and wonders as confirmation they were sent by God/Christ. Acts 2:43 cf 2 Corinthians 2:12
FACTS below from the above
1- Must be an eyewitness of Jesus Resurrection
2- Must be chosen by Christ
3- They are the foundation the church was built upon
4- The last Apostle was Paul- last of all Jesus appeared to me ( Paul)
5- Jesus appoints them as His chosen instruments.
6- There are only 12 foundation stones which are the 12 Apostles- not 13, 50, 100, 1000 etc...... only 12
7- Those Apostles performed miracles, signs and wonders at will proving they were Jesus chosen 12 just as He performed those same miracles, signs and wonders authenticating their message was directly from God.
hope this helps !!!
DavidTree
Well-known member
Neither are you = "It's as simple as that"
God has something to HELP you with = His Word of Truth
"They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth."
One has to be humble , open and teachable to receive truth.
God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble .
God is humble and we are to be imitators of Christ .
SEE = follow your own admission = One has to be humble , open and teachable to receive truth.
You are not able to receive Truth here as you fight against God's words.
Your statement is falsehood and goes against God's word of Truth = Gospel, Acts, Apostles Letters
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
The Apostle Peter obeyed the words of Christ: Matt 28:20
"teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
SAME Holy Spirit promised to the Apostles is God's Promise to ALL whom the FATHER shall call.
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Johann
Well-known member
DavidTree
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
Anyone can quote scriptures brother-some out of context-not reading the "to whom, and what followeth after"-right?
J.
DavidTree
Well-known member
i invite my Brothers in Christ who share with me the Salvation of God by the New Covenant.
These are the things you shall do:
Speak each man the truth to his neighbor;
Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace;
Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor;
And do not love a false oath.
For all these are things that I hate,’
Says the Lord.”
Zechariah 8:16-17
Out of "context" or 100% TRUE everyday as we await the Second Coming of Christ???
These are the things you shall do:
Speak each man the truth to his neighbor;
Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace;
Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor;
And do not love a false oath.
For all these are things that I hate,’
Says the Lord.”
Zechariah 8:16-17
Out of "context" or 100% TRUE everyday as we await the Second Coming of Christ???
DavidTree
Well-known member
Happens all the time with:
a.) pre-trib rapture quotes
b.) cessation of gifts quotes
c.) MUST worship on Saturday and do no work = SDA
d.) jehovah witnesss = Christ is not God
e.) and those who even go as far as saying: "Christ has already Come a Second time"
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