Rapture Ready

[Johann]

Happens all the time with:
a.) pre-trib rapture quotes
b.) cessation of gifts quotes
c.) MUST worship on Saturday and do no work = SDA
d.) jehovah witnesss = Christ is not God
e.) and those who even go as far as saying: "Christ has already Come a Second time"

What about-

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

1Co_1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1Co_1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1Co_2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1Co_2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

2Co_13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Shalom brother
J.

 

[Johann]

You know that we love each other - right?

Of course brother.

 

[DavidTree]

What about-

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

1Co_1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1Co_1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1Co_2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1Co_2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

2Co_13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Shalom brother
J.

AMEN my Brother who i miss,

i sense the Holy Spirit is now working in our hearts to correct in us any misbehavior coming from us.

Shalom

 

[DavidTree]

Upon the admonition of @Predestined @Johann @civic
i will not use the word 'lie' towards 'pre-trib' BUT i will use the words:
ERROR, falsehood, untrustworthy, heresy, heretical teaching(s), unsound doctrine

WHY am i doing this?

"LOVE is Greatest of all"

*** However - let none of us embrace the "love of the world" and "the love that the world unites under"

Shalom

 

[Johann]

Upon the admonition of @Predestined @Johann @civic
i will not use the word 'lie' towards 'pre-trib' BUT i will use the words:
ERROR, falsehood, untrustworthy, heresy, heretical teaching(s), unsound doctrine

WHY am i doing this?

"LOVE is Greatest of all"

*** However - let none of us embrace the "love of the world" and "the love that the world unites under"

Shalom

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[DavidTree]

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

AMEN

Always remember that we walk the SAME Path together.

"What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander"

 

[Johann]

AMEN

Always remember that we walk the SAME Path together.

"What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander"

I guess the "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" is in xxx. 44-67? Lol!

 

[DavidTree]

I guess the "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" is in xxx. 44-67? Lol!

It is always a Good Thing when we are running low on fuel to pull-off the 'congested' highway and fill UP on the Holy Spirit.

Good laughter also works quite well.....................thank you Brother

 

[DavidTree]

Stepping out now to go for a walk.

Shalom @Johann and @civic

 

[Johann]

Stepping out now to go for a walk.

Shalom @Johann and @civic

Shalom Achi-brother.
Johann.

 

[DavidTree]

Now let’s see who will believe the truth

my Brother,
i just noticed this post and got a good lol - thank you

We are Brothers in Christ and it is good for us to laugh together.

We can also "break bread" together (which is sharing in the Bread of Life)

And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:42

 

[TomL]

According to my online dictionary, the word rapture means “an expression or manifestation of ecstasy or passion” and “being carried away by overwhelming emotion.” But the Bible tells us it means that millions of people will disappear from the face of the earth in less than a millisecond. And the purpose of that evacuation is to avoid horrific devastation. This evacuation will remove God’s people from the disastrous effects of coming earthquakes, fire, and global chaos.
The word Rapture is the Latin version of a phrase the Bible uses to describe the catching away of all Christians before the end times. The Lord will descend with a shout and a trumpet of God. All believers, living and dead, will suddenly meet the Lord in the air.

The focus of the Rapture is on looking at the event not from the viewpoint of those who remain, but from that of those who are evacuated. Before the period of the Tribulation breaks out, all true followers of the Lord will be caught up from the earth and right into the presence of the Lord. The Rapture will fulfill the promise He made to His disciples in John 14:1–3:
Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Followers of Christ who are raptured will be spared the trauma of death and the coming disasters that will occur when the Tribulation breaks out upon the earth.

That is indeed a cause for true rapture on the part of those who love the Lord and long to be with Him. The New Testament indicates that the Rapture of those who have put their trust in Christ is the next major event on the prophetic calendar. In other words, the Rapture awaits us on the horizon . . . it could happen at any moment. This is the clear message of the Bible, and it is a truth I have taught consistently throughout my years of Bible study.

The timing is poor but let me say there is no secret pre-trib rapture in scripture

Rather the bible teaches at the second coming the dead will be raised up, and the living caught up to be with the Lord

 

[Eleazar]

No problem Tom. Now's a good time because this is the day the lord has made and we shall rejoice and be glad in it. You're definitely entitled to your view on end times.

I think the pre-Trib view is popular because it fits so well all the Bible passages that touch on end-time events. I understand that the pre-Trib view may not be perfect (none of the existing theories are), but I believe it provides the best explanation of how our Lord will rapture His church, take them to the Father’s house for their appearance before His judgment seat, and then celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

Also I want to thank you for giving this thread a bump as I've been meaning to get back into studying in times for the last 3 weeks and have been putting it off. This is a sign that I need to get busy.

There are quite a few threads here at BAM On the rapture. So I might start by browsing through them.

 

[TomL]

No problem Tom. Now's a good time because this is the day the lord has made and we shall rejoice and be glad in it. You're definitely entitled to your view on end times.

I think the pre-Trib view is popular because it fits so well all the Bible passages that touch on end-time events. I understand that the pre-Trib view may not be perfect (none of the existing theories are), but I believe it provides the best explanation of how our Lord will rapture His church, take them to the Father’s house for their appearance before His judgment seat, and then celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

Also I want to thank you for giving this thread a bump as I've been meaning to get back into studying in times for the last 3 weeks and have been putting it off. This is a sign that I need to get busy.

There are quite a few threads here at BAM On the rapture. So I might start by browsing through them.

I actually think it is contrary to a good deal of what we see in the new testament

Concerning the time of Christ's reign 1cor 15:2ff it ends when death the last enemy is defeated (at his coming)

The time of the catching up 1Th 4:15 (At his coming)

The inauguration of the new heaven and earth at Christ's coming 2Pe 3ff

The day of the lord comes like a thief in the night. It brings the resurrection, rapture and salvation of the righteous, the Destruction of this old earth, the judgment of all and the Destruction of the ungodly

 

[Eleazar]

I actually think it is contrary to a good deal of what we see in the new testament

Concerning the time of Christ's reign 1cor 15:2ff it ends when death the last enemy is defeated (at his coming)

The time of the catching up 1Th 4:15 (At his coming)

The inauguration of the new heaven and earth at Christ's coming 2Pe 3ff

The day of the lord comes like a thief in the night. It brings the resurrection, rapture and salvation of the righteous, the Destruction of this old earth, the judgment of all and the Destruction of the ungodly

My take on 1st Corinthians 15:2 is quite different from yours.

and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1st Corinthians 15:2​

Paul has set out to clear up some misunderstanding among the Christians in Corinth about resurrection. He began in the previous verse by asking them to remember the gospel as he first preached it to them when establishing the church in Corinth.

Paul will insist that the content of the gospel, and their belief in all of it, is the foundation for everything that is true. He has reminded them that they received the gospel as it was presented to them; they continue to have a right standing before God because of their faith in the truth of the gospel.

Now Paul adds that they are in the process of being saved by the gospel right now. When Paul and other New Testament writers talk about salvation, they often use the past, present, and future tenses. Those in Christ have been saved, in the sense that our sins are forgiven and our place in eternity is secure. We are being saved; God is active right now in sanctifying us to be like Christ. We will be saved when the moment comes for us to stand before God in eternity, and we're freed from all sin.

There's a problem, however. Paul describes those who have received the gospel as "being saved" if they hold firmly to the truth as he preached it to them. The word "if" is easily interpreted as "since," because this statement is tied to them holding fast to the word preached to them. But the Corinthians have believed the gospel in vain if they did not and are not believing the gospel as he preached it to them. In other words, if anyone is believing a false version of the gospel of Jesus, that person should not think that they have any standing before God.

The part of the gospel Paul will emphasize in this chapter is faith in Christ's resurrection, as well as His death. Both must be believed to hold to the gospel as Paul preached it to them. BibleRef

The same goes for 1 Thessalonians 4:15. It explains the rapture perfectly.

For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

First Thessalonians 4:13–18 represents an important shift in the subject matter of Paul's letter. Realizing the Thessalonian believers needed further teaching about Jesus' return (the rapture) and specifically about what happens to Christians who die before Jesus returns, Paul turns to address these vital matters. He wants his readers to know that death should not cause them to grieve like unbelievers. There is a bright prospect of seeing departed believers again. When Jesus returns from heaven, He will bring deceased Christians with Him. At that time there will be a loud command, the archangel's voice will be heard, and God's trumpet will sound. Christians who have died will receive their resurrected bodies, and living Christians will be caught up to join them, to be with the Lord forever. Paul urged the Thessalonian believers to use what he wrote about the rapture to encourage one another. BibleRef

​

I don't see anything about the rapture in 2nd Peter chapter 3. Here is Peter’s answer to those who deny or distort our faith and hope regarding the second coming of Christ...

The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16. The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows: 1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

 

[TomL]

My take on 1st Corinthians 15:2 is quite different from yours.

and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1st Corinthians 15:2​

Paul has set out to clear up some misunderstanding among the Christians in Corinth about resurrection. He began in the previous verse by asking them to remember the gospel as he first preached it to them when establishing the church in Corinth.

Paul will insist that the content of the gospel, and their belief in all of it, is the foundation for everything that is true. He has reminded them that they received the gospel as it was presented to them; they continue to have a right standing before God because of their faith in the truth of the gospel.

Now Paul adds that they are in the process of being saved by the gospel right now. When Paul and other New Testament writers talk about salvation, they often use the past, present, and future tenses. Those in Christ have been saved, in the sense that our sins are forgiven and our place in eternity is secure. We are being saved; God is active right now in sanctifying us to be like Christ. We will be saved when the moment comes for us to stand before God in eternity, and we're freed from all sin.

There's a problem, however. Paul describes those who have received the gospel as "being saved" if they hold firmly to the truth as he preached it to them. The word "if" is easily interpreted as "since," because this statement is tied to them holding fast to the word preached to them. But the Corinthians have believed the gospel in vain if they did not and are not believing the gospel as he preached it to them. In other words, if anyone is believing a false version of the gospel of Jesus, that person should not think that they have any standing before God.

The part of the gospel Paul will emphasize in this chapter is faith in Christ's resurrection, as well as His death. Both must be believed to hold to the gospel as Paul preached it to them. BibleRef

The same goes for 1 Thessalonians 4:15. It explains the rapture perfectly.

For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

First Thessalonians 4:13–18 represents an important shift in the subject matter of Paul's letter. Realizing the Thessalonian believers needed further teaching about Jesus' return (the rapture) and specifically about what happens to Christians who die before Jesus returns, Paul turns to address these vital matters. He wants his readers to know that death should not cause them to grieve like unbelievers. There is a bright prospect of seeing departed believers again. When Jesus returns from heaven, He will bring deceased Christians with Him. At that time there will be a loud command, the archangel's voice will be heard, and God's trumpet will sound. Christians who have died will receive their resurrected bodies, and living Christians will be caught up to join them, to be with the Lord forever. Paul urged the Thessalonian believers to use what he wrote about the rapture to encourage one another. BibleRef

​

I don't see anything about the rapture in 2nd Peter chapter 3. Here is Peter’s answer to those who deny or distort our faith and hope regarding the second coming of Christ...

The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16. The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows: 1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

It's not 1cor 15:2 it is 1Cor 15:22 to end of chapter

1Th 4:15 is not about a pretrib rapture seven years before the second coming

but the catching up of the living at the coming of Christ

And 2pe is not about the rapture but the premillenial system. Christ's coming ushers in the new heaven and earth and not a 1000 year millenium

 

[Eleazar]

Well there you go, you see it your way and I see it mine. I'm just a pre-tribulation rapture kind of guy. The main thing is we don't get left behind right?

 

[TomL]

Well there you go, you see it your way and I see it mine. I'm just a pre-tribulation rapture kind of guy. The main thing is we don't get left behind right?

There is no left behind

One way or the other you will receive eternal life or eternal condemnation at Christ's coming

John 5:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

2 Thessalonians 1:6–10 (KJV 1900) — 6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Acts 17:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Romans 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

John 11:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:39–40 (KJV 1900) — 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:48 (KJV 1900) — 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Eleazar]

There is no left behind

One way or the other you will receive eternal life or eternal condemnation at Christ's coming

John 5:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

2 Thessalonians 1:6–10 (KJV 1900) — 6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Acts 17:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Romans 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

John 11:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:39–40 (KJV 1900) — 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:48 (KJV 1900) — 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Exactly non-believers that are alive will be left behind when the pre-tribulation rapture occurs. According to the verse you quoted

John 5:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

As for Christians that are alive when the pre-tribulation rapture occurs, they will meet Jesus in the sky.

The Return of the Lord
…16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.…1Thessalonians 4:17Beside my steak

The Rapture is an eschatological position held by some Christians, particularly those of American evangelicalism, consisting of an end-time event when all dead Christian believers will be resurrected and, joined with Christians who are still alive, together will rise "in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."

 

[TomL]

Exactly non-believers that are alive will be left behind when the pre-tribulation rapture occurs. According to the verse you quoted

John 5:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

As for Christians that are alive when the pre-tribulation rapture occurs, they will meet Jesus in the sky.

The Return of the Lord
…16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.…1Thessalonians 4:17Beside my steak

The Rapture is an eschatological position held by some Christians, particularly those of American evangelicalism, consisting of an end-time event when all dead Christian believers will be resurrected and, joined with Christians who are still alive, together will rise "in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."

No all are judged at Christ's coming at the last day

and the new heaven and earth are ushered in