Rapture Ready

[DavidTree]

Dwight -You know, if you would simply look carefully at what I said, you will have the answers to all of your questions. Obviously, these are approximate times from historical information. My understanding is that He was crucified in about 30 A.D. If His ministry was 3 1/2 years long, then you should be able to figure out what year He began His ministry. It's just simple math. When did the 7 years end? I said it very plainly in my post:
"so we know the 70th week (or the 7 years) ENDED 3 1/2 years after Jesus was crucified, which historically would be around 34 A.D."

I never said He stopped reaching out to the Jews, even after the 7 years were over - those are your words. Don't put words in my mouth. Read my words again:

so it appears that God was STILL REACHING OUT FIRST TO THE JEWS during those last 3 1/2 years after Christ's crucifixion, which ended the 70th week. (But not the Jews opportunity to accept their Messiah and be saved)

During Christ's ministry, He was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel, but did that stop Him from occasionally performing miracles for Gentiles, like a Centurion, the Syro-Phoenician woman etc.? NO

Daniel said that 70 weeks were decreed for the Jews. During that time, God dealt primarily with Israel, but did He ever accept a repentant Gentile? Of course he did. They were always allowed to convert to the God of Abraham.

After the 70 weeks were over, it appears it is now the time of the Gentiles, or the church age, where God is dealing primarily with Gentiles, but will He reject a Jew who accepts the Messiah? Of course not. God wants ALL to be saved - not just Jews. God told Abraham that He would be the Father of many nations - besides Israel.

You did not pay attention to what you I said. This is the 3rd time I'm telling you. I believe the 70th week was over at around 34 A.D., not 38 or 40.

What did the Jews do from 34 A.D. until 70 A.D.? Think about it. God gave them 36 years to repent of killing their Messiah, before He sent judgment on them. I assume many did, but probably the majority did not. Tell me, how is a Jew who rejected Jesus, his Messiah, going to be a light to those around him? There's no way. A blind man cannot lead another blind man. What about the Jews who believed Jesus? Of course, they were a light and a witness, both to their fellow Jews, and later to the Gentiles (After Peter received his vision in Acts 10 to no longer reject the Gentiles)

Here again, I told you what Jesus' mandate was for them:

the apostles were commanded to preach the gospel to "Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria and even to the remotest part of the earth. Acts 1:8

Even though Jesus gave them that mandate just before He ascended, which was at the beginning of the last 3 1/2 years, I never said that they stopped preaching after the 3 1/2 years, including to the Jews. What I said was that was a time when God's PRIMARY focus was no longer on the Jews, but on the Gentiles. He NEVER stopped instructing His apostles or His people to reach out to everyone.

I didn't make it 3 1/2 years - Daniel did. Or to be more precise, Gabriel did. Gabriel is the one who said that the Messiah would be cut off in the middle of the (70th) week. So the midpoint of 7 years is what? You got it - 3 1/2 years. I never made up 3 1/2 years. That's what Gabriel's message to Daniel explains to us.

Also Gabriel said that 70 weeks were decreed for Israel. So do you think that Gabriel was telling them that after the 70th week, God would no longer reach out to them? That doesn't agree with the character of God. Even though He shifted His focus to Gentiles gradually - none of us know the exact time for that, but the end of the last 3 1/2 years (which is the end of the 70th week) appears to be a pretty good guess - or about the time that Paul, the apostle TO THE GENTILES was saved and called - but He never forgot the Jews.

So Jesus ministered for 3 1/2 years (the start of His ministry began the 70th week) - then He was crucified (in the middle of the 70th week), then that stills leaves the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week (the events of the book of Acts started during this time and the gospel was preached to both Jew and Gentile, but we know that God gradually was shifting His focus off the Jews and on to the Gentiles)

Remember Jesus told the Jews in one of His parables: "The kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation, producing the fruit of it." Matthew 21:43 That nation is the body of Christ. 1 Peter 2:9 "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, A HOLY NATION, a people for God's own possession, ..." In context here, Peter is speaking to the body of Christ, the church. The words of that verse were first spoken to Israel by Moses in Exodus 19:6 - but NOW Peter applies them to the church, which consists of both Gentiles and Jews.

Paul said that when God saved Gentiles, it made the Jews jealous, or at least some of them, and some got saved!! Romans 9:30-31

70th week has not yet ended.

 

[DavidTree]

That's because after the church is out of here the vegans take over.

When does the church leave according to scripture?

 

[DavidTree]

According to my online dictionary, the word rapture means “an expression or manifestation of ecstasy or passion” and “being carried away by overwhelming emotion.” But the Bible tells us it means that millions of people will disappear from the face of the earth in less than a millisecond. And the purpose of that evacuation is to avoid horrific devastation. This evacuation will remove God’s people from the disastrous effects of coming earthquakes, fire, and global chaos.
The word Rapture is the Latin version of a phrase the Bible uses to describe the catching away of all Christians before the end times. The Lord will descend with a shout and a trumpet of God. All believers, living and dead, will suddenly meet the Lord in the air.

The focus of the Rapture is on looking at the event not from the viewpoint of those who remain, but from that of those who are evacuated. Before the period of the Tribulation breaks out, all true followers of the Lord will be caught up from the earth and right into the presence of the Lord. The Rapture will fulfill the promise He made to His disciples in John 14:1–3:
Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Followers of Christ who are raptured will be spared the trauma of death and the coming disasters that will occur when the Tribulation breaks out upon the earth.

That is indeed a cause for true rapture on the part of those who love the Lord and long to be with Him. The New Testament indicates that the Rapture of those who have put their trust in Christ is the next major event on the prophetic calendar. In other words, the Rapture awaits us on the horizon . . . it could happen at any moment. This is the clear message of the Bible, and it is a truth I have taught consistently throughout my years of Bible study.

@Eleazar says: "The focus of the Rapture is on looking at the event not from the viewpoint of those who remain, but from that of those who are evacuated. Before the period of the Tribulation breaks out, all true followers of the Lord will be caught up from the earth and right into the presence of the Lord. The Rapture will fulfill the promise He made to His disciples in John 14:1–3:"
================================================================================================
@civic

John 14:1-3 does not support your statement of being evacuated from earth.

The Rapture is 100% Truth.

pre-trib rapture is 100% a LIE

100% TRUTH = we are not appointed wrath

100% TRUTH = we will suffer tribulation even great tribulation which has been ongoing since the Garden/Serpent debacle.

100% Truth = the tribulation will grow exceedingly until the LORD'S Second Coming = Matt ch24

100% TRUTH = the Saints will endure the great tribulation = Revelation 7:13-15

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14And I said to him, "Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.



John ch16
1“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. 2They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. 3And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. 4But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them.

Matt ch24
9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

1 Thessalonians ch3
1Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, 2and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith, 3that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this. 4For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. 5For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.

The LORD Jesus has told you pre-trib rapture is a LIE and so have the OT Prophets and the Apostles


Reject the man-made fable of pre-trib rapture and turn back to the Future = 2 Timothy 4:4

I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

 

[jeremiah1five]

QUESTION:

If Revelations is all to do with the end times, WHY doesn't it mention rapture?

Because there is NONE!

Misusing Thessalonians 4 is the error of John Nelson Darby and the rest of you are eating up his false understanding. There is no rapture. But there will be those who say:

"Where is the promise of his coming?" 2 Pe 3:4.

WHEN they find out there is no rapture.

 

[DavidTree]

QUESTION:

If Revelations is all to do with the end times, WHY doesn't it mention rapture?

Because there is NONE!

Misusing Thessalonians 4 is the error of John Nelson Darby and the rest of you are eating up his false understanding. There is no rapture. But there will be those who say:

"Where is the promise of his coming?" 2 Pe 3:4.

WHEN they find out there is no rapture.

answer = Post #43

 

[jeremiah1five]

answer = Post #43

Learn something:

Gentile Christians use these statements by Jesus to prove a rapture, but if you're honest with the Scripture you'll see Jesus is not talking about a rapture but a JUDGMENT!

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mt 24:36–42.

Now THINK! Jesus says those days yet future, the days in which Gentile Christians say the rapture will happen fail to realize that as it was in the days of Noah it was the FLOOD that TOOK THEM ALL AWAY and those that were left behind (Noah and his family and the animals) were the ones that were safe and saved.

Those that were left behind were the ones that were saved while everyone else was TAKEN AWAY!

 

[DavidTree]

Learn something:

Gentile Christians use these statements by Jesus to prove a rapture, but if you're honest with the Scripture you'll see Jesus is not talking about a rapture but a JUDGMENT!

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mt 24:36–42.

Now THINK! Jesus says those days yet future, the days in which Gentile Christians say the rapture will happen fail to realize that as it was in the days of Noah it was the FLOOD that TOOK THEM ALL AWAY and those that were left behind (Noah and his family and the animals) were the ones that were safe and saved.

Those that were left behind were the ones that were saved while everyone else was TAKEN AWAY!

The Scriptures you posted is 100% TRUTH along with your assessment of them.

Also 100% TRUTH is the Rapture at His Coming

You have TWO Distinct groups =
a.) those taken and destroyed
b.) those "caught UP" to be with Christ

BOTH are TRUTH

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Scriptures you posted is 100% TRUTH along with your assessment of them.

Also 100% TRUTH is the Rapture at His Coming

You have TWO Distinct groups =
a.) those taken and destroyed
b.) those "caught UP" to be with Christ

BOTH are TRUTH

Those "caught up" or "taken away" according to Jesus' words all DIED!
Judgment!
I'd prefer to be left behind and safe.

 

[DavidTree]

Those "caught up" or "taken away" according to Jesus' words all DIED!
Judgment!
I'd prefer to be left behind and safe.

There are two groups = Matthew ch13

37He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


There are two groups = Matthew ch13

47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

 

[jeremiah1five]

There are two groups = Matthew ch13

37He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


There are two groups = Matthew ch13

47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

Now, why would you add to Jesus' words to confuse what He has said about being "carried away" (judgment) and those "left behind" (saved)?
Gentile Christians do that all the time when they're wrong about something. It's very deceptive and dishonest.
There is NO RAPTURE. Gentile Christians will go through the Time of Jacob's Trouble along with Israel.
God has covenant with Israel for centuries - even thousands of years - and God raised them up and when they sinned He put them down and they went through many, many hardships, even slavery, and Israel is His Bride and Church and the apple of His beautiful eye and you think God is going to spare Gentiles with whom He has no covenant to spare them the fierce judgment coming upon Gentile nations? Last I checked Gentile Christians live in those Gentile nations upon which judgment is coming. NONE shall escape. Judgment begins in the House of God and that House is Israel, but if Gentile Christians want to proudly claim to be in the house of God, well, bear up because some serious judgment is coming and it won't be against Israel. It will be against Gentiles - saved or not.


14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and ethe women ravished;
And half of the city shall go forth into captivity,
And the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
As when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
Which is before Jerusalem on the east,
And the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west,
And there shall be a very great valley;
And half of the mountain shall remove toward the north,
And half of it toward the south.
Zechariah 14:1-4

Zechariah says the Lord will touch down upon the Mount of Olives from where He ascended. Your theology says Jesus will stay "in the air" FOREVER.
Your rapture is full of holes! False doctrine. Heresy.
A shame you don't see the obvious.

 

[DavidTree]

Now, why would you add to Jesus' words to confuse what He has said about being "carried away" (judgment) and those "left behind" (saved)?
Gentile Christians do that all the time when they're wrong about something. It's very deceptive and dishonest.
There is NO RAPTURE. Gentile Christians will go through the Time of Jacob's Trouble along with Israel.
God has covenant with Israel for centuries - even thousands of years - and God raised them up and when they sinned He put them down and they went through many, many hardships, even slavery, and Israel is His Bride and Church and the apple of His beautiful eye and you think God is going to spare Gentiles with whom He has no covenant to spare them the fierce judgment coming upon Gentile nations? Last I checked Gentile Christians live in those Gentile nations upon which judgment is coming. NONE shall escape. Judgment begins in the House of God and that House is Israel, but if Gentile Christians want to proudly claim to be in the house of God, well, bear up because some serious judgment is coming and it won't be against Israel. It will be against Gentiles - saved or not.


14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and ethe women ravished;
And half of the city shall go forth into captivity,
And the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
As when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
Which is before Jerusalem on the east,
And the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west,
And there shall be a very great valley;
And half of the mountain shall remove toward the north,
And half of it toward the south.
Zechariah 14:1-4

Zechariah says the Lord will touch down upon the Mount of Olives from where He ascended. Your theology says Jesus will stay "in the air" FOREVER.
Your rapture is full of holes! False doctrine. Heresy.
A shame you don't see the obvious.

Zech ch14 is TRUTH but your direct denial of the words of CHRIST as posted (#49) is willful hardness of heart.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Zech ch14 is TRUTH but your direct denial of the words of CHRIST as posted (#49) is willful hardness of heart.

Zechariah is truth. There is no need to add to it. The rapture is a false teaching by Darby and that's all to it. Even Thessalonians 4 doesn't support a rapture if one is honest with the text and context.

 

[DavidTree]

Zechariah is truth. There is no need to add to it. The rapture is a false teaching by Darby and that's all to it. Even Thessalonians 4 doesn't support a rapture if one is honest with the text and context.

There was no adding to Zech ch14

pre-trib rapture is a lie

the Resurrection and following Rapture is TRUTH = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Honesty requires faith in God's word.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There was no adding to Zech ch14

pre-trib rapture is a lie

the Resurrection and following Rapture is TRUTH = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Honesty requires faith in God's word.

The whole belief in rapture is a lie.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

To be absent from the body is to be present with Lord.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Prevent them from what? They are already with the Lord aren't they?

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

But aren't they already with the Lord? Oh, it's talking about "behold I shew you a mystery...we shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed, in the twinkling of an eye?" Let's see:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Co 15:52.

The "we" are those alive. So, this happens at the last trump, right? Back to 1 Thess. 4:16. That trumpet is the last trumpet, and there's a shout and the voice of an archangel. This doesn't sound like a rapture but a second coming all the way to earth.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thess. 4:13–18.

IF this is a rapture it sure is a noisy one. Lots of fanfare, lots of shouting. And this is the last trumpet. But if this is a pre-trib or a mid-trib then there are no more trumpets to blow.

Let's do a timeline.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rev. 8:2.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Rev. 8:6.

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
Rev. 8:13.

Four trumpets down, three to go. Armageddon has yet to happen. Christ is still in heaven waiting for the Father to give Him the day and hour which hasn't happened yet.

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev. 9:13–14.

Armageddon is about to happen, and Jesus is still in heaven awaiting the LAST TRUMPET.

This happens to Babylon:

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying,
Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev. 18:21–22.

There are no more trumpets mentioned in Revelation after this. Jesus is still in heaven at this point, and it looks like this is the end of the seven years tribulation and Jesus is still in heaven.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev. 19:11–16.

But where's the seventh trumpet? Where's the last trumpet? There's no trumpet when Jesus returns. He just comes. Heaven opens and He just comes and He came to make war against God's enemies. This fits nicely with Zechariah 14. Take a look:


1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and ethe women ravished;
And half of the city shall go forth into captivity,
And the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
As when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
Which is before Jerusalem on the east,
And the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west,
And there shall be a very great valley;
Zech. 14:1-4.

But Saul says that He will remain in the air FOREVER.
That means all the nations God gathered against Israel have no King, no one to fight for them, no one to deliver them and most likely Israel shall be defeated and with Jesus in the "air forever" there will be no throne to sit on because He stays/remains in the air FOREVER.
What the hell is wrong with Saul? Another error. Another misinterpretation of Old Testament prophecy. That's twice now Saul has maligned Old Testament prophecy. TWICE!

According to Revelation and Zechariah there is no trumpet sounding when Christ returns. NONE!

Whatever Saul is saying in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 it is NOT a rapture for Saul says a last trumpets sounds but according to Old Testament prophecy from two legitimate prophets of the Lord there is no trumpet sounding when Christ returns. It's just as the angel said in Acts. The way He comes back is the way He went up. No rapture. No waiting 7 years or 3 and one-half years. Christ comes at the end when ALL nations of the earth have gathered against Israel and while it seems all is lost the skies open up and Christ returns and to make war and His feet touch the Mount of Olives and the mountain breaks apart!

But Saul said He takes the dead first then the living, changes their bodies and everyone remains in the air with the Lord FOREVER!
There's no sitting on David's throne. No ruling the earth. And no finishing God's business and destroying God's enemies. The rapture makes Jesus into a whip! Come down, Lord. Israel is surrounded! Where is the King of Israel???
He's in the air. FOREVER.

Someone is lying.

I wonder who.

Saul?

 

[DavidTree]

According to my online dictionary, the word rapture means “an expression or manifestation of ecstasy or passion” and “being carried away by overwhelming emotion.” But the Bible tells us it means that millions of people will disappear from the face of the earth in less than a millisecond. And the purpose of that evacuation is to avoid horrific devastation. This evacuation will remove God’s people from the disastrous effects of coming earthquakes, fire, and global chaos.
The word Rapture is the Latin version of a phrase the Bible uses to describe the catching away of all Christians before the end times. The Lord will descend with a shout and a trumpet of God. All believers, living and dead, will suddenly meet the Lord in the air.

The focus of the Rapture is on looking at the event not from the viewpoint of those who remain, but from that of those who are evacuated. Before the period of the Tribulation breaks out, all true followers of the Lord will be caught up from the earth and right into the presence of the Lord. The Rapture will fulfill the promise He made to His disciples in John 14:1–3:
Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Followers of Christ who are raptured will be spared the trauma of death and the coming disasters that will occur when the Tribulation breaks out upon the earth.

That is indeed a cause for true rapture on the part of those who love the Lord and long to be with Him. The New Testament indicates that the Rapture of those who have put their trust in Christ is the next major event on the prophetic calendar. In other words, the Rapture awaits us on the horizon . . . it could happen at any moment. This is the clear message of the Bible, and it is a truth I have taught consistently throughout my years of Bible study.

You know, the way i've been feeling lately, i think i am more Resurrection ready then rapture ready.

 

[Eleazar]

You SKIPPED what Jesus Himself taught about when He comes to gather His saints per the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV


WHY... did you just BYPASS those above Scriptures by The Lord Jesus Christ?? They are the clearest declaration that He gave of WHEN He comes to gather His Church.

I can't answer for Obadiah But my opinion is they are 2 different events

 

[Grace ambassador]

Bring it on I'm ready! The vanishing of millions of people from the face of the earth, won't that be a wake up call?

Amen! Pre-Trib Great Grace Departure of The Body Of Christ will be for some of those
"left behind" but, not be a "wake-up call" for these unbelievers [ who Rejected God's
Gracious Gospel Of Peace/Love ], who will see/meet [ during Israel's 7-year Great Trib ]
the "man of sin, son of Perdition," and Then God's Doctrine Will "Be In Effect! That Of:

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and​

lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;​

because they received not The Love of The Truth, that they might be saved. And for​

this cause God Shall Send them Strong Delusion, that they should believe a lie: That​

they all might be damned who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in​

unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)​

​

Just one of Several problems the post-trib view has...

Amen.

 

[DavidTree]

I can't answer for Obadiah But my opinion is they are 2 different events

Any scripture that clearly states "two different events?

If you find please post them as i always committ myself to submitting to - "It is written".

 

[Eleazar]

The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God’s removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation. From Got?

That's the first event "the pre-tribulation rapture"

The second event "the Battle of Armageddon"

The second coming is spoken of in greatest detail in Revelation 19:11-16, “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter.’ He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.”

 

[DavidTree]

The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God’s removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation. From Got?

That's the first event "the pre-tribulation rapture"

The second event "the Battle of Armageddon"

The second coming is spoken of in greatest detail in Revelation 19:11-16, “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter.’ He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.”

AGREE - 1 Thess 1:10 "and wait for His Son from Heaven, JESUS our Deliverer from the wrath to come."

AGREE - 1 Thess 5:9 -"God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"

God's Wrath is not Tribulation.

To equate tribulation with God's Wrath is to call the LORD Jesus Christ a liar.

You do not want to do that do you?

SEE, HEAR and BELIEVE the word of the LORD

Hate - The LORD Jesus specifically told us that His elect (us who are Saved) would be hated by the world and suffer tribulation.
John 15:18 - If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before you

Persecution = John 15:19 - If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.

Tribulation - John 16:33 - In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Tribulation unto death - Matthew 24:9 - “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Tribulation before His Coming - 1 Thessalonians 3:1-5
Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith, that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.
For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.

Tribulation before His Coming - 2 Thessalonians 1:3
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure,

TRIBULATION for God's elect has never stopped in the world and it will only get worse.

Both Noah and Lot were in grave tribulation.
If it were not for their faith in the True God, they would of perished with the surrounding peoples whom God judged.

Both Noah and Lot were delivered from God's Wrath.