Praying to Jesus

[Runningman]

Um Jesus was called the word

Jehovah never

Wrong again

Revelation 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Where is Jesus called the Word then? "Lord of lords and King of kings" doesn't match the word order of what was written on the rider on the white horse. When something is written, it needs to be quoted verbatim or it isn't the same thing.

Yet the only one directly called the King of kings and Lord of lords in Scripture is God.... My reasons for the rider being the Father outnumber your reasons.

Who is the one who brings about the appearance of Jesus Christ? Scripture says it's only the Father who knows this in Matthew 24:36. Therefore Jesus isn't the "King of kings and Lord of lords" in Scripture.

1 Timothy 6
13I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who made the good confession in His testimony before Pontius Pilate: 14Keep this commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which the blessed and only Sovereign One—the King of kings and Lord of lords—will bring about in His own time. 16He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

 

[Runningman]

Those are all perfectly Trinitarian verses. As many people have told you before, the name "God" can stand for the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. So Acts 3:13 and all of Ex 3 makes perfect Trinitarian sense.

How do you understand "the Word was with God" and "the Word was God" in your Judaizing way?

Jesus is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in scripture. You don't have a point. That's one of God's exclusive titles.

 

[Runningman]

Seriously he existed in the form of God

Hello

and obviously he was other than man when

Philippians 2:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

It says Jesus is made in human likeness. Hey, so am I. What is your point?

 

[synergy]

Jesus is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in scripture. You don't have a point. That's one of God's exclusive titles.

You conveniently skipped over my question:

How do you understand "the Word was with God" and "the Word was God" in your Judaizing way?

As for the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Jesus does reveal the Father in himself. He who sees the Son also sees the Father. Jesus said so himself. Do you believe him?

 

[Runningman]

You conveniently skipped over my question:

As for the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Jesus does reveal the Father in himself. He who sees the Son also sees the Father. Jesus said so himself. Do you believe him?

Your question doesn't apply to me because I'm not a Judaizer. You should speak to people with respect, even if you disagree with them, instead of backhanding them with all of your comments. Just talk normal.

God isn't a human like Jesus is. The Bible say so. Do you believe the Bible? I am afraid you are missing the point about seeing the Son to see the Father.

 

[DavidTree]

Try this one:

The Hail Mary​

Hail, Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

i was born and raised into a Roman Catholic family

i was Born-Again 23 years later by the Spirit of God into the FAMILY of God which is in JESUS CHRIST our LORD

Mary needed a Savior just as you do = His Name is the LORD Jesus Christ

Believe Mary when she proclaimed her need and faith is the Savior = Luke chapter 1

And Mary said:

“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
48For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
49For He who is mighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His name.
50And His mercy is on those who fear Him
From generation to generation.
51He has shown strength with His arm;
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
And exalted the lowly.
53He has filled the hungry with good things,
And the rich He has sent away empty.
54He has helped His servant Israel,
In remembrance of His mercy,
55As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and to his seed forever.”

Stop waisting your time praying to the saints and REMEMBER this:
MARY and JOSPEPH were MARRIED before GOD and had children TOGETHER in HOLY MATRIMONY after JESUS was born.

 

[synergy]

Your question doesn't apply to me because I'm not a Judaizer. You should speak to people with respect, even if you disagree with them, instead of backhanding them with all of your comments. Just talk normal.

You continue to run away from my question for obvious reasons. If you can't answer it just say so.

God isn't a human like Jesus is. The Bible say so. Do you believe the Bible? I am afraid you are missing the point about seeing the Son to see the Father.

We're in NT times now where the Word of God took on flesh. You're 2000 years behind the times. It's time to catch up. How can I not identify your errors as Judaizing with comments like that?

 

[DavidTree]

Right, just His Mom. She might have a lot of Influence.

Mary did not create the LORD.

God sent His Son from Eternity into the womb of Mary = SEE the difference = Hebrews 10:5-7

Therefore, when He(SON) came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

 

[Runningman]

You continue to run away from my question for obvious reasons. If you can't answer it just say so.

We're in NT times now where the Word of God took on flesh. You're 2000 years behind the times. It's time to catch up. How can I not identify your errors as Judaizing with comments like that?

That’s rich. You think you can call me a Judaizer and expect me to answer your questions.

 

[DavidTree]

That’s rich. You think you can call me a Judaizer and expect me to answer your questions.

a judaizer is one who attempts to deceive you by returning to the old covenant which the LORD nailed to the Cross on His Body

It remains only for the Jews who refuse to come to their Savior for Redemption of their sins and or remain in Him.
Since they refuse to come to their MESSIAH, they will be judged by the law of Moses which will result in DEATH.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Galatians 5:1-6

 

[synergy]

That’s rich. You think you can call me a Judaizer and expect me to answer your questions.

No rebuttal I see. Your request to end the debate is understandable now that you realized how much your Judaizing theories are continuously being slammed by the Bible at every turn you take.

 

[synergy]

a judaizer is one who attempts to deceive you by returning to the old covenant which the LORD nailed to the Cross on His Body

It remains only for the Jews who refuse to come to their Savior for Redemption of their sins and or remain in Him.
Since they refuse to come to their MESSIAH, they will be judged by the law of Moses which will result in DEATH.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Galatians 5:1-6

Exactly! @Runningman acts like a Judaizer, in that he doesn't believe that Jesus is God, but he doesn't want to be viewed as one. Go figure.

In fact, Paul called out Judaizers in Scripture. We need to follow in his path and do the same. Paul even vehemently confronted Peter about Peter's Judaizing tendencies and Paul wrote about it in Scripture.

 

[TomL]

It says Jesus is made in human likeness. Hey, so am I. What is your point?

The point is he pre-existed being made in human likeness

A common refrain from you guys is that he was an impersonal thing. Phil 2:6 however shows how baseless and unbiblical that claim is.

That is the point

 

[TomL]

Where is Jesus called the Word then? "Lord of lords and King of kings" doesn't match the word order of what was written on the rider on the white horse. When something is written, it needs to be quoted verbatim or it isn't the same thing.

You mean other than John 1:1

You ignored the fact that one stated to have a sword coming out of his mouth is Jesus

The Father is never stated to have a sword coming out of his mouth

Hello


Um
Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

It is one like a Son of man who died - Jesus

Yet the only one directly called the King of kings and Lord of lords in Scripture is God.... My reasons for the rider being the Father outnumber your reasons.

Totally false

Revelation 17:14 (NASB 2020) — 14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

You have ignored fact after fact

And you have ignored the context of Revelation and ran to the Old testament

Who is the one who brings about the appearance of Jesus Christ? Scripture says it's only the Father who knows this in Matthew 24:36. Therefore Jesus isn't the "King of kings and Lord of lords" in Scripture.

Sorry you are simply denying scripture based on your reasoning and bias

Revelation 17:14 (NASB 2020) — 14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

You have argued the making of war, being faithful, being the king of kings , the lord of lords indicates it is not Jesus contrary to the text of revelation which refutes your claims

Where is Jesus called the Word then? "Lord of lords and King of kings" doesn't match the word order of what was written on the rider on the white horse. When something is written, it needs to be quoted verbatim or it isn't the same thing.

Nonsense

Revelation 19:11–16 (NASB 2020) — 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many crowns; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Jesus is identified as the one with the sword coming out of his mouth as shown above

Revelation 17:14 (NASB 2020) — 14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

and your claim that word order means it is not Jesus is absurd

You are in serious denial and have simply ignored the context of revelation

Yet the only one directly called the King of kings and Lord of lords in Scripture is God.... My reasons for the rider being the Father outnumber your reasons.

Who is the one who brings about the appearance of Jesus Christ? Scripture says it's only the Father who knows this in Matthew 24:36. Therefore Jesus isn't the "King of kings and Lord of lords" in Scripture.

1 Timothy 6
13I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who made the good confession in His testimony before Pontius Pilate: 14Keep this commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which the blessed and only Sovereign One—the King of kings and Lord of lords—will bring about in His own time. 16He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

The sword out of the mouth is imagery for the word of God which as described as something sharper than any two edged sword. I don't see that exclusive for Jesus.

 

[TomL]

The sword out of the mouth is imagery for the word of God which as described as something sharper than any two edged sword. I don't see that exclusive for Jesus.

Unfortunately for you however

Jesus the lamb is the only one specifically states to have a sword coming out of his mouth

Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

You are simply not willing to allow the text to speak for itself

 

[TomL]

"He will judge the world" refers to someone else aside from Jesus judging. Christ is instrumental in the judging, but only the secondary cause, not the first. The Judge in Scripture is the Father, YHWH, since Christ's judgements are based on what the Father says.

John 5
30I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Sorry but that is simply gratuitous

In Revelation

It is the rider on the white horse who has a Sword coming out of his mouth (Jesus) who judges and makes war

Revelation 19:11–16 (KJV 1900) — 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

compare

Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.



Hello

You consistently ignore the facts seen in revelation running everywhere else

 

[TomL]

While Daniel 10 doesn't specify who exactly has eyes like flaming fire, it could plausibly by the Father. Not many scholars believe that Daniel 10:6 refers to Jesus.

We are in revelation

You keep running from that fact

Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


as you have consistently done

It is not the text which is driving your arguments but your theology

 

[TomL]

Revelation 19:15 describes the Father as having a sword coming out of His mouth. The sword of the Spirit is the word of God, not a person. It refers to God's spoken words and the Father is speaking God's spoken words. Yes? So speaking the word of God is about the image of the sword coming out of their mouth. It isn't a shoe-in for Jesus.

Revelation 19
15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.

Ephesians 6
17And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Sorry no it does not

You assume that ignoring the fact Jesus was specifically stated to have a sword coming out of his mouth and have eyes of blazing fire

You are not doing exegesis you are simply spouting your theology ignoring the text and the obvious identification

Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 19:11–16 (KJV 1900) — 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

[Selah]

Where is Jesus called the Word then? "Lord of lords and King of kings" doesn't match the word order of what was written on the rider on the white horse. When something is written, it needs to be quoted verbatim or it isn't the same thing.

Yet the only one directly called the King of kings and Lord of lords in Scripture is God.... My reasons for the rider being the Father outnumber your reasons.

Who is the one who brings about the appearance of Jesus Christ? Scripture says it's only the Father who knows this in Matthew 24:36. Therefore Jesus isn't the "King of kings and Lord of lords" in Scripture.

1 Timothy 6
13I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who made the good confession in His testimony before Pontius Pilate: 14Keep this commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which the blessed and only Sovereign One—the King of kings and Lord of lords—will bring about in His own time. 16He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Hello again, @Runningman

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Jesus Christ is the Living Word.
. . . . .

It is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ that we read about in the book of Revelation. …And this Day happens at the 7th trumpet.

Peter lets us know who it is that comes at the last trump (7th). It is the One we have been waiting for! He is the King of kings and Lord of lords:​

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into. Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

- 1 Peter 1:3-20

God bless you.
s.

 

[synergy]

Sorry no it does not

You assume that ignoring the fact Jesus was specifically stated to have a sword coming out of his mouth and have eyes of blazing fire

You are not doing exegesis you are simply spouting your theology ignoring the text and the obvious identification

Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 19:11–16 (KJV 1900) — 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Excellent work!

What's the one common error that all Judaizers (JWs, Unitarians, Messianic Jews, etc...) make when they claim that all those Divine Apperances are those of the Father? It's the fact that no one can see the Father, except Jesus. The Father can only be seen through Jesus.

(John 6:46) Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God, He has seen the Father.