Praying to Jesus

[Runningman]

Revelation 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

After the rider on the white horse is mentioned in Revelation 19, the next war mentioned is with the rider on the white horse and He is called the One. The the Father commands the army of heaven according to Matthew 26:53 and Joshua 5:15 says the army of heaven is YHWH's army. That's the Father. All of these images about a winepress, and robes, etc.. it's symbolism most likely.

Revelation 19
19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

 

[civic]

This proves Jesus isn't God. If no one knows the name but the Son then the Father isn't omniscient. You have opened another theological can of worms from which you cannot dodge.

The rider on the white horse. Who is that?

no it exposes your faulty logic and reasoning just to deny the Son.

 

[TomL]

After the rider on the white horse is mentioned in Revelation 19, the next war mentioned is with the rider on the white horse and He is called the One. The the Father commands the army of heaven according to Matthew 26:53 and Joshua 5:15 says the army of heaven is YHWH's army. That's the Father. All of these images about a winepress, and robes, etc.. it's symbolism most likely.

Revelation 19
19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And the one with the Sword coming out of his mouth is Christ

Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

[civic]

And the one with the Sword coming out of his mouth is Christ

Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Amen !!!

 

[TomL]

Amen !!!

And that is clear indication of who is refered to later in revelation

Revelation 19:13–16 (KJV 1900) — 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

and helps identify Christ as King of King and lord of Lords

 

[TomL]

Symbolism. It applies to others who aren't Jesus as well. The context is about the Father.

Daniel 10
6His body was like beryl, his face like the brilliance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of polished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

In Revelation its Christ

Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

Are you going to argue Jehovah died?

 

[TomL]

It's more nuanced than that. The Father is still judge.

Acts 17
31For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Again Christ judges

You have no grounds to exclude Christ from being the Judge

 

[TomL]

The sharp-two edged sword is the word of God, not Jesus himself.

Wasn't Jesus' words not his own? His teachings not his own? Who is the real word of God then... the one from whom the words originate or someone who repeats them. This is easy... you aren't the word of God if you say God's words are you?

Read the text

I am not interested in your theology

Um Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. It is one like a Son of man who died

 

[TomL]

Jesus wasn't called the word of God in scripture either. This is prophetic.

Observe the word order is different and it doesn't match what was written on him. Only the Father is the King of kings and Lord of lords.


No way. Are you?

Um Jesus was called the word

Jehovah never

Wrong again

Revelation 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

[synergy]

We still have Acts 3:13 and Exodus 3:14-15 proving that Jesus is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You could simply agree with Scripture, but it seems you have made the Scriptures your enemy, at least on this point.

Those are all perfectly Trinitarian verses. As many people have told you before, the name "God" can stand for the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. So Acts 3:13 and all of Ex 3 makes perfect Trinitarian sense.

How do you understand "the Word was with God" and "the Word was God" in your Judaizing way?

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

nope and nice dodging Phil 2 and diverting. that speaks volumes about you inability to engage the text and stay on topic- so far all you have done is based on your subjective opinion which is eisegesis whereas I provided an exegetic post about the passage.

hope this helps !!!

Dodge ball has become dodge scripture to many . as though pual would ever deny the diety of Christ .
folks love to dodge them scriptures that so remind us of that which is true .
Dodge ball can at most sting the face , or perhaps cause some pain .
BUT DODGING scrips and recreating another image of JESUS , PAIN will be the end of those who did so
as they twisted scrips upon scrips unto their own destruction .
My advice to one is the same i give to all . STAY GLUED IN THE BIBLE FOR OURSELVES cause far too many
are teaching things that ought never once have been even uttered by mouth , let alone taught or beleived .

 

[civic]

Dodge ball has become dodge scripture to many . as though pual would ever deny the diety of Christ .
folks love to dodge them scriptures that so remind us of that which is true .
Dodge ball can at most sting the face , or perhaps cause some pain .
BUT DODGING scrips and recreating another image of JESUS , PAIN will be the end of those who did so
as they twisted scrips upon scrips unto their own destruction .
My advice to one is the same i give to all . STAY GLUED IN THE BIBLE FOR OURSELVES cause far too many
are teaching things that ought never once have been even uttered by mouth , let alone taught or beleived .

Ditto

 

[TomL]

Paul debunked the deity of Jesus in this passage, saying that Jesus is a servant and a man. There is no suggestion that Jesus was anything more than a servant and a man who did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped because Jesus is not equal to God.

Seriously he existed in the form of God

Hello

and obviously he was other than man when

Philippians 2:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

 

[civic]

Seriously he existed in the form of God

Hello

and obviously he was other than man when

Philippians 2:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

If they deny the form of God they must also deny form of a servant to be consistent and honest with the text.

 

[TomL]

If they deny the form of God they must also deny form of a servant to be consistent and honest with the text.

There resides the rub getting them to be consistent

 

[Runningman]

no it exposes your faulty logic and reasoning just to deny the Son.

It says no one knows the name written on him except himself. In Scripture, Jesus isn't omniscient as there are examples such as when he didn't know his own return in Matthew 24:36, however only the Father knew.

In Matthew 6:18, many versions state that when someone is fasting to not make it obvious to people so that only the Father will know about it.

In Mark 11:13, Jesus was searching for something to eat and he saw a fig tree. When he went to go get a fig, he found there were none because it wasn't fig season.

On the other hand, only the Father is omniscient about all things.

 

[Runningman]

And the one with the Sword coming out of his mouth is Christ

Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 19:15 describes the Father as having a sword coming out of His mouth. The sword of the Spirit is the word of God, not a person. It refers to God's spoken words and the Father is speaking God's spoken words. Yes? So speaking the word of God is about the image of the sword coming out of their mouth. It isn't a shoe-in for Jesus.

Revelation 19
15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.

Ephesians 6
17And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

 

[Runningman]

In Revelation its Christ

Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

Are you going to argue Jehovah died?

While Daniel 10 doesn't specify who exactly has eyes like flaming fire, it could plausibly by the Father. Not many scholars believe that Daniel 10:6 refers to Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

Again Christ judges

You have no grounds to exclude Christ from being the Judge

"He will judge the world" refers to someone else aside from Jesus judging. Christ is instrumental in the judging, but only the secondary cause, not the first. The Judge in Scripture is the Father, YHWH, since Christ's judgements are based on what the Father says.

John 5
30I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

 

[Runningman]

Read the text

I am not interested in your theology

Um Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. It is one like a Son of man who died

The sword out of the mouth is imagery for the word of God which as described as something sharper than any two edged sword. I don't see that exclusive for Jesus.