Praying to Jesus

[Runningman]

nope and nice dodging Phil 2 and diverting. that speaks volumes about you inability to engage the text and stay on topic- so far all you have done is based on your subjective opinion which is eisegesis whereas I provided an exegetic post about the passage.

hope this helps !!!

So reads like you are not willing to discuss this with me. I obviously think you're wrong with your interpretation and I presented what the truth is. It's not a dodge. I spent my entire comment talking about this topic. What are you even talking about.

 

[civic]

So reads like you are not willing to discuss this with me. I obviously think you're wrong with your interpretation and I presented what the truth is. It's not a dodge. I spent my entire comment talking about this topic. What are you even talking about.

you are projecting since I used bible translation and Greek lexicons to support my argument and the context of the passage and Pauls other passage on the same topic- Jesus being fully God, equal with God, having all the fulness of Deity, lacking nothing as God manifest in the flesh.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Runningman]

you are projecting since I used bible translation and Greek lexicons to support my argument and the context of the passage and Pauls other passage on the same topic- Jesus being fully God, equal with God, having all the fulness of Deity, lacking nothing as God manifest in the flesh.

hope this helps !!!

I did refer to the Greek of the word "form" (morphe) in the NT and Septuagint. I figured you had already looked this up and were going to be honest and agree that it is used consistently to refer to the outward appearances in Scripture. Compare Philippians 2:6 to Mark 16:12 with the Septuagint's Job 4:15-16, Isaiah 44:13, and Daniel 3:19. It doesn't refer to the nature of God anywhere.

So your "Who, being in very nature God" version doesn't translate to English as such. Furthermore, even if it did, you still wouldn't have an argument because Christians are to have the nature of God themselves, according to Peter.

2 Peter 1​

4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.​

I also have already been discussing this same thing in a different thread it came up. So I may have to repeat some other points I have already made in another thread, but Jesus is also not equal to God and denied it in John 10 & 14.

John 14​

28You heard Me say, ‘I am going away, and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I.​

​

John 10​

29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.​

So your premise doesn't have Biblical support for the deity of Jesus.

 

[civic]

I did refer to the Greek of the word "form" (morphe) in the NT and Septuagint. I figured you had already looked this up and were going to be honest and agree that it is used consistently to refer to the outward appearances in Scripture. Compare Philippians 2:6 to Mark 16:12 with the Septuagint's Job 4:15-16, Isaiah 44:13, and Daniel 3:19. It doesn't refer to the nature of God anywhere.

So your "Who, being in very nature God" version doesn't translate to English as such. Furthermore, even if it did, you still wouldn't have an argument because Christians are to have the nature of God themselves, according to Peter.

2 Peter 1​

4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.​

I also have already been discussing this same thing in a different thread it came up. So I may have to repeat some other points I have already made in another thread, but Jesus is also not equal to God and denied it in John 10 & 14.

John 14​

28You heard Me say, ‘I am going away, and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I.​

​

John 10​

29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.​

So your premise doesn't have Biblical support for the deity of Jesus.

nope you missed the form of servant and form of God as the syllogism Paul was making in the passage.

to be consistent you must deny Jesus was in the form of a servant like you do denying he was in the form of God,

your inconsistent/bias dealing with the text is on display for all to see.

on the other hand my view which is biblical is consistent with both being in the form of God and the form of a servant- both are true.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Runningman]

nope you missed the form of servant and form of God as the syllogism Paul was making in the passage.

to be consistent you must deny Jesus was in the form of a servant like you do denying he was in the form of God,

your inconsistent/bias dealing with the text is on display for all to see.

on the other hand my view which is biblical is consistent with both being in the form of God and the form of a servant- both are true.

hope this helps !!!

Servants in Scripture are not greater than their master or the one who sent them. God sent Jesus and is a servant of God. Therefore Jesus is not greater than God and someone who doesn't have all of the qualities of God isn't God. Furthermore, God is a person and not a status or state of being.

John 13
16Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

John 17
1When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. 2For You granted Him authority over all people,a so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

 

[TomL]

correct

Yes I knew he did not understand your position.

 

[civic]

Yes I knew he did not understand your position.

ditto- you and I go way back to far not to know what each other believes about God.

 

[TomL]

Doesn't work in the context. The church of Philippi needs to have the mind to empty themselves of deity? It must refer to emptying oneself of their own will to serve and obey God.

Seriously?

It is to have a mind of humility and Jesus/the word was the example of it

 

[Runningman]

Seriously?

It is to have a mind of humility and Jesus/the word was the example of it

So we can have the mind of God? How's that?

 

[civic]

So we can have the mind of God? How's that?

see 1 Cor 2:16.

 

[TomL]

So we can have the mind of God? How's that?

Again seriously can you not understand the instruction was to have a mind of humility

Philippians 2:1–4 (NASB 2020) — 1 Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility consider one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

 

[Runningman]

see 1 Cor 2:16.

That proves my point. We can have the mind of Christ, but not the mind of YHWH. If what you were saying is so, we would be omniscient and know what God knows, but not even Jesus did.

Matthew 24​

36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. ​

 

[civic]

That proves my point. We can have the mind of Christ, but not the mind of YHWH. If what you were saying is so, we would be omniscient and know what God knows, but not even Jesus did.

Matthew 24​

36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. ​

Rev 19- know one but the Son knows the name on His forehead. Your logic would exclude the Father.

oops

next fallacy-

 

[TomL]

Rev 19- know one but the Son knows the name on His forehead. Your logic would exclude the Father.

oops

next fallacy-

oops indeed

sauce for the goose is good for the gander

 

[Runningman]

Rev 19- know one but the Son knows the name on His forehead. Your logic would exclude the Father.

oops

next fallacy-

This proves Jesus isn't God. If no one knows the name but the Son then the Father isn't omniscient. You have opened another theological can of worms from which you cannot dodge.

The rider on the white horse. Who is that?

 

[TomL]

This proves Jesus isn't God. If no one knows the name but the Son then the Father isn't omniscient. You have opened another theological can of worms from which you cannot dodge.

Seems you are swimming in the same waters as you placed Civic in, but it goes back to how you define omniscience

 

[Runningman]

Seems you are swimming in the same waters as you placed Civic in, but it goes back to how you define omniscience

It's because the Father is omniscient and Jesus isn't. I was waiting for someone to say it, but no one wants to so I will. The rider on the white horse is God, but not Jesus.

 

[TomL]

It's because the Father is omniscient and Jesus isn't. I was waiting for someone to say it, but no one wants to so I will. The rider on the white horse is God, but not Jesus.

UM did you look at verse 13

Revelation 19:13 (ESV) — 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.

 

[Runningman]

UM did you look at verse 13

Revelation 19:13 (ESV) — 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.

Jesus isn't ever called the Word of God in scripture. The Word of God is distinct from Jesus.

Here's an example...

Revelation 20
4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God...

 

[Selah]

It's because the Father is omniscient and Jesus isn't. I was waiting for someone to say it, but no one wants to so I will. The rider on the white horse is God, but not Jesus.

Would you mind posting the scripture?

There are two white horses mentioned in the book of Revelation. The first white horse is the Antichrist; the second is Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords.