It's the same discussion about all the realms of faith, good works, and justification. No need to slice anything up.
Justification by Faith
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Since you dont see the difference, i must conclude you promote Justification before God based on your works, and you deny Justification before God based solely on the Suretyship, Hight Priestly Death of Christ, which means you dont have Faith in what Christ did and accomplished, which is unbelief.
I'm just following what James wrote in James 2:24. If you have a problem with that then you need to take it up with him.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats fine, I believe you under a strong delusion, and you condition Salvation on works, which is denying Christ and unbelief
So you're ok with taking it up with Apostle James? That radiates your brashness.
You are free to believe whatever reduces your cognitive dissonance. As for me, I'll continue to believe what the Apostles say about good works and how everlasting life is associated with them.
(Rom 2:7) indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life.
brightfame52
Well-known member
All i can say is if a person believes they are Justified before God based on their good works, they are under strong delusion to believe a lie.
What if someone believes that they are justified by both their faith and good works together (James 2:24)? Are you ok with that?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Friend, a person is under strong delusion if they believe they are Justified before by works.
Unfortunately, you are flying in the face of what James wrote in James 2:24 concerning both faith and good works.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Unfortunately you believe a lie.
civic
Well-known member
how is the bible a lie in James since he said faith without works is dead ?
how is that believing a lie ?
brightfame52
Well-known member
I didnt say the bible was a lie. And Faith without works is dead
civic
Well-known member
so what am I missing about believing the lie ?
This guy is caught between a rock and a hard place with no wiggle room. A typical Calvinist.
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
op: Justification by faith?
What of this interesting Biblical phraseology: "...then it is no more of works"
(Romans 11:6)?:
Does this imply there was a time of 'faith Plus works'? Confirmation:
1) Cain "brought the Incorrect 'work' not accepted by God, but:
Abel "brought the Correct 'work' to be accepted by God
(Genesis 4:3-7 cp Hebrews 11:4 "faith Plus works" )
2) House of Israel:
3) James, "by faith Plus works," states to the Twelve tribes (v. 1):
4) Finally, in the future, for Israel:
Are not all these, As God Has Plainly Taught: "faith Plus works"?
More study here: "I have decided to follow Jesus?"...
As my new Precious friend says: "hope this helps":
What of this interesting Biblical phraseology: "...then it is no more of works"
(Romans 11:6)?:
Does this imply there was a time of 'faith Plus works'? Confirmation:
1) Cain "brought the Incorrect 'work' not accepted by God, but:
Abel "brought the Correct 'work' to be accepted by God
(Genesis 4:3-7 cp Hebrews 11:4 "faith Plus works" )
2) House of Israel:
"When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness,
and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity
that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man
turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and
doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive."
(Ezekiel 18:26-27)
3) James, "by faith Plus works," states to the Twelve tribes (v. 1):
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers
only, deceiving your own selves." (James 1:22)
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and
have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14 cp vs 17, 20 & 26)
4) Finally, in the future, for Israel:
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of
life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." (Revelation 2:7)
+"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches; he that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."
(Revelation 2:11):
"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right
to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
(Revelation 22:14)
Are not all these, As God Has Plainly Taught: "faith Plus works"?
More study here: "I have decided to follow Jesus?"...
brightfame52
Well-known member
What Justification by Faith really is !
First of all, Justification by Faith cant apply to #1. The unregenerate, because Faith is a Spiritual Fruit 5:22
22 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith
Now, man may have faith which is the fruit of the flesh, a natural human faith, but that has nothing to do with Justification.
#2. Justification by Faith cant apply to the unjustified, in other words, one must already be Justified before God before they can be Justified by Faith.
Justification by Faith is when one who has been Justified by the Blood of Christ alone and before God based on Christ's Blood Rom 5:9 when they receive a conscience assurance of it by Faith the fruit of the Spirit.
Faith justifies the conscience with the spiritual knowledge of the imputed righteousness of Christ . God purifies our hearts by Faith Acts 15:8-9
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
The word heart here does include the conscience, for its the word kardia and means:
lit: the heart; mind, character, inner self, will, intention, center.
kardía – heart; "the affective center of our being" and the capacity of moral preference
Faith gives us assurance of our Justification as in the full assurance of Faith Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Justification by Faith Rom 5:1 is again conscience Justification, wherein the conscience is given to know the peace it has with God, and so its the peace of believing Rom 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
First of all, Justification by Faith cant apply to #1. The unregenerate, because Faith is a Spiritual Fruit 5:22
22 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith
Now, man may have faith which is the fruit of the flesh, a natural human faith, but that has nothing to do with Justification.
#2. Justification by Faith cant apply to the unjustified, in other words, one must already be Justified before God before they can be Justified by Faith.
Justification by Faith is when one who has been Justified by the Blood of Christ alone and before God based on Christ's Blood Rom 5:9 when they receive a conscience assurance of it by Faith the fruit of the Spirit.
Faith justifies the conscience with the spiritual knowledge of the imputed righteousness of Christ . God purifies our hearts by Faith Acts 15:8-9
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
The word heart here does include the conscience, for its the word kardia and means:
lit: the heart; mind, character, inner self, will, intention, center.
kardía – heart; "the affective center of our being" and the capacity of moral preference
Faith gives us assurance of our Justification as in the full assurance of Faith Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Justification by Faith Rom 5:1 is again conscience Justification, wherein the conscience is given to know the peace it has with God, and so its the peace of believing Rom 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
The Bible verses you quoted perfectly align with James 2:24. "man is justified by works, and not by faith only". God is not the author of confusion.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You believe a lie friend.
Rockson
Well-known member
Don't agree not with the scripture but what you're thinking about it. Most of the newer translations even have the word "faith" down in Gal 5:22 as "faithfulness"
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, Gal 5:22 NIV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, Gal 5:22 ESV
Even the New King James as changed that recognizing the older version didn't put it right. (see below)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, Gal 4:22 NewKJ
22 versions on Bible Hub translations have it down as faithfulness too. Meaning if you're walking in the Spirit you will show stability of character nothing to do with receiving salvation by faith. I get it why a Calvinist would want to keep it as faith but it's really not in the context.
James 2:24 is not a lie.
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