Justification by Faith

Soyeong said:
No, I am not a universalist, Romans 5:9 does not teach universalism, but rather it is in accordance with Romans 5:1


I did not contradict myself. That is not what Romans 5:19 teaches and I don't see why it makes sense to you to interpret either Romans 5:9 or 5:19 as contradicting Romans 5:1.
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Yes you in contradiction !
 
Soyeong said:
Do you think that Romans 5:1 contradicts 5:9 and 5:19? It seems to me that it would better for you to conclude that you must have misunderstood those verses than to think that they contradict.
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I dont see no sense in continuing this, you are in contradiction and dont even know it.
 
brightfame52 said:
I dont see no sense in continuing this, you are in contradiction and dont even know it.
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I believe that all of Scripture is true and non of it contradicts itself, so I choose not to interpret those verses in a way that contradicts each other, but to see a way where they can all be true.
 
So Paul declares that the elect having been Justified by Christ blood, shall be delivered from the wrath to come.

2ndly, Paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Christ] Justification comes upon all men, that is, all men in Him at the time of His righteous act. Observe Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This reads in exact contrast with the results of the one who made offence [ Adam] resulting in Gods condemnation and Judgment. For each of the heads brought about a Divine Judicial verdict on all those whom they represented. By the righteousness or righteous act of Jesus Christ, meaning His death, the free gift of Justification of life came upon [ not was offered or made available] but came upon all men [ in Christ at the time , his seed, as Adam had a seed in him] unto Justification of life.

The Justification unto life by the right act of one, called down the free Gift of Justification of life.

Thats why Paul wrote earlier in Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The redemption that is in Christ Jesus, again pointing to His redeeming blood and or death.

So we know Paul did not mean in Rom 5:1 that the elect are Justified by their act of believing or Faith, because it again contradicts Paul's overall teaching of this subject, and would make void the accomplishment of the redeeming death and blood of Jesus Christ. And that's what satan and his messengers desire to do, to take the crown from Jesus head, and place it upon the head of man.
 
brightfame52 said:
So Paul declares that the elect having been Justified by Christ blood, shall be delivered from the wrath to come.

2ndly, Paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Christ] Justification comes upon all men, that is, all men in Him at the time of His righteous act. Observe Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This reads in exact contrast with the results of the one who made offence [ Adam] resulting in Gods condemnation and Judgment. For each of the heads brought about a Divine Judicial verdict on all those whom they represented. By the righteousness or righteous act of Jesus Christ, meaning His death, the free gift of Justification of life came upon [ not was offered or made available] but came upon all men [ in Christ at the time , his seed, as Adam had a seed in him] unto Justification of life.

The Justification unto life by the right act of one, called down the free Gift of Justification of life.

Thats why Paul wrote earlier in Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The redemption that is in Christ Jesus, again pointing to His redeeming blood and or death.

So we know Paul did not mean in Rom 5:1 that the elect are Justified by their act of believing or Faith, because it again contradicts Paul's overall teaching of this subject, and would make void the accomplishment of the redeeming death and blood of Jesus Christ. And that's what satan and his messengers desire to do, to take the crown from Jesus head, and place it upon the head of man.
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The experience of getting to practice righteousness through faith in the blood and obedience of Jesus is the content of the free gift of righteousness.
 
brightfame52 said:
Justification by Faith is in two senses, First and foremost Its Justification by the Faith / Faithfulness of Jesus Christ. For its by this Faith alone how The elect obtain Justification before God, by the Blood and obedience of Jesus Christ, for all whom He died in their place and stead..

Rom 5:9,18-19

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Note, being Now Justified by His blood, not our Faith + His blood, that's a false Gospel, but by His blood..to whom is this True of ? Not only the roman believers, but to all the election of grace of all time..Thats who Justified by His blood..

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men[of all time] to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men [of all time] unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again no mention of our Faith as a securing means of Justification unto Life or being made righteous, but solely the obedience and righteousness of One Jesus Christ..

This constitutes the Faith / faithfulness of Jesus Christ. Therefore its written The Faith of Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16,20

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Faithfulness Jesus Christ Loved the elect and gave himself for them.

Then in a secondary sense and premised on the First and foremost, the elect sinner is Justified consciously, by the regenerating work of the Holy Ghost, because of their previous justification by the work of Christ, they now have that revealed to them by God the Holy Ghost through the Gospel. But be careful not to confuse the receiving experientially the status of Justification before God [by the work of Christ] with the experiential aspect of conscience Justification by the work of the Holy Ghost upon and in the already Justified before God sinner.. 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now, though the work of the Holy Ghost is extremely Important and needed for the enjoyment of the work of Christ in the elects behalf, His blessed work should never be on the same level or above the Justifying work of the Son of God upon the cross. to do so leads to heresy and false teaching.

For it was not the Work of the Holy Ghost to die in the place of elect sinners for 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

This scripture teaches Christ died for our [the elect] sins, but not a word about the Holy Ghost dying for the sins of the elect.

Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him [Jesus Christ] the iniquity of us all.

Here, the iniquities of the elect were laid upon him [Jesus Christ] and not the Holy Ghost..

Rom 5: 9 declares Having been Justified [declared righteous] by the blood of Jesus Christ, but not a word about being Justified by the work of the Holy Ghost blood..

Finally Jesus states that the Holy Ghost will not speak of Himself [ draw attention to Himself] but should Glorify Him..Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [My accomplishment], and shall shew it unto you.

He shall receive of the finished accomplished Justification of Gods elect through Jesus Christ and on their behalf, and shew [ reveal] it to them..

To confuse or mix the Two types of Justification, Legal and experiential[conscious] is fatal.
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when His souls are back in paradise with God

only then are we saved
 
brightfame52 said:
Justification by Faith is in two senses, First and foremost Its Justification by the Faith / Faithfulness of Jesus Christ. For its by this Faith alone how The elect obtain Justification before God, by the Blood and obedience of Jesus Christ, for all whom He died in their place and stead..

Rom 5:9,18-19

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Note, being Now Justified by His blood, not our Faith + His blood, that's a false Gospel, but by His blood..to whom is this True of ? Not only the roman believers, but to all the election of grace of all time..Thats who Justified by His blood..

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men[of all time] to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men [of all time] unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again no mention of our Faith as a securing means of Justification unto Life or being made righteous, but solely the obedience and righteousness of One Jesus Christ..

This constitutes the Faith / faithfulness of Jesus Christ. Therefore its written The Faith of Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16,20

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Faithfulness Jesus Christ Loved the elect and gave himself for them.

Then in a secondary sense and premised on the First and foremost, the elect sinner is Justified consciously, by the regenerating work of the Holy Ghost, because of their previous justification by the work of Christ, they now have that revealed to them by God the Holy Ghost through the Gospel. But be careful not to confuse the receiving experientially the status of Justification before God [by the work of Christ] with the experiential aspect of conscience Justification by the work of the Holy Ghost upon and in the already Justified before God sinner.. 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now, though the work of the Holy Ghost is extremely Important and needed for the enjoyment of the work of Christ in the elects behalf, His blessed work should never be on the same level or above the Justifying work of the Son of God upon the cross. to do so leads to heresy and false teaching.

For it was not the Work of the Holy Ghost to die in the place of elect sinners for 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

This scripture teaches Christ died for our [the elect] sins, but not a word about the Holy Ghost dying for the sins of the elect.

Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him [Jesus Christ] the iniquity of us all.

Here, the iniquities of the elect were laid upon him [Jesus Christ] and not the Holy Ghost..

Rom 5: 9 declares Having been Justified [declared righteous] by the blood of Jesus Christ, but not a word about being Justified by the work of the Holy Ghost blood..

Finally Jesus states that the Holy Ghost will not speak of Himself [ draw attention to Himself] but should Glorify Him..Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [My accomplishment], and shall shew it unto you.

He shall receive of the finished accomplished Justification of Gods elect through Jesus Christ and on their behalf, and shew [ reveal] it to them..

To confuse or mix the Two types of Justification, Legal and experiential[conscious] is fatal.
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We disposed of the false idea of a legal justification 2000 years. We kicked that habit 2000 years ago. Now, James says that man is justified by good works and not by faith alone. Do you believe James, which does not contradict any of the verses you quoted.
 
So, so far in exposing the False teaching that the elect are saved or Justified because of their act of Faith or believing. We see that contradicts other clear teaching of Paul that #1, the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus christ Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

That is when He bore their sins as prophesied Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [shed His blood]

2ndly we find that paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Jesus Christ] Justification came upon all men..not offered, not made available, but Sovereignly came upon them. .Rom 5:18

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now show me in this verse where it says that Justification of life came upon all men because they had faith ?

Thirdly, Paul teaches in vs 19 of Romans 5:19 that by the obedience of one, many shall be made righteous ..

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now where does it say that by their faith shall many be made righteous ? Paul says by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous. Now who is that one ?
 
brightfame52 said:
@synergy



Sorry to hear that because thats an attack on the Cross of Christ friend, not good
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Sorry to break this to you but works of the law do not save. There is no justification through legal means (through the law). We kicked that habit 2000 years ago.

Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law none of all flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the knowledge of sin.
Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but through faith in Jesus Christ; even we believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law. For all flesh will not be justified by works of law.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are out of works of the Law, these are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law, to do them."
 
synergy said:
Sorry to break this to you but works of the law do not save. There is no justification through legal means (through the law). We kicked that habit 2000 years ago.

Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law none of all flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the knowledge of sin.
Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but through faith in Jesus Christ; even we believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law. For all flesh will not be justified by works of law.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are out of works of the Law, these are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law, to do them."
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Nothing changes, you have attacked the work of Christ, the Legal aspect ! Thats the foundation for the Spiritual aspect, where men are right with God legally, their sins having been put away by the death and or blood of Christ, then they have a right to Spiritual life, the Spirit gives Spiritual life to them that have been legally made right by the death of Christ for their sins !
 
brightfame52 said:
Nothing changes, you have attacked the work of Christ, the Legal aspect ! Thats the foundation for the Spiritual aspect, where men are right with God legally, their sins having been put away by the death and or blood of Christ, then they have a right to Spiritual life, the Spirit gives Spiritual life to them that have been legally made right by the death of Christ for their sins !
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You are free to focus on legal works of the law. I'll focus on faith and good works.
 

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