John 6 the context

Rockson said:
IT'S NOT a dumb question and you and I both really know why you won't answer it! We'll get to that in a moment.

Now if you were asked a rhetorical question like do fish like to swim you would respond with a resounding YES of course! If you were asked is water wet the answer should be the same with no doubt about it....YES of course!

You were asked is it a good thing or a bad thing that people allow themselves to be deceived or are deceived? Your answer to that should have been a resounding NO! But you won't answer that for YOU KNOW the ramifications this has to your way of thinking that if it's not a good thing for one to be deceived you feel that you're questioning God.....for after all you believe that all things are ordained by him!

I'll give you even another chance and ask you again......do you believe it is a good thing for men to be deceived ? Don't beat around the bush. If you believe like any normal or rational human being would say NO its not a good thing to be deceived then why don't you say it? If you believe it is a good thing then say that.

To other readers I hope you can see this. Calvinism is a doctrine that has a God that any one who is deceived God deceived them again that God actually did it. The poster I'm talking too DOES NOT want to have to defend his position that God actually is a deceiver (for he believes all things are ordained) so he tried to turn the tables on me saying my question shows I'm seeking to respond against God. He does not want to say what he believes that God deceives everyone and of course he should not want to say such for that it is NOT the character of God. I agree it is not.

That however is what Calvinism puts in you although they use different words but that is essentially where their words take one! My advice to all! If you're into Calvinism flee from it! If you've been uncertain in regard to it see exactly where it's taking you you must ask if you are you willing to embrace a crazy way of thinking that God deceives the whole human race? I trust and hope not! Such a perverse way of thinking is not from God. That sadly is what you have with Calvinism and I'm speaking in regard to T.U.L.I.P.
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Its replying against God, Everything is Gods will being done, everything God does is Good according to His Good pleasure Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself

God makes the deceived, they belong to Him Job 12:15-16

15 Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.

16 With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

Ask God to humble your heart to what is revealed
 
Rockson said:
IT'S NOT a dumb question and you and I both really know why you won't answer it! We'll get to that in a moment.

Now if you were asked a rhetorical question like do fish like to swim you would respond with a resounding YES of course! If you were asked is water wet the answer should be the same with no doubt about it....YES of course!

You were asked is it a good thing or a bad thing that people allow themselves to be deceived or are deceived? Your answer to that should have been a resounding NO! But you won't answer that for YOU KNOW the ramifications this has to your way of thinking that if it's not a good thing for one to be deceived you feel that you're questioning God.....for after all you believe that all things are ordained by him!

I'll give you even another chance and ask you again......do you believe it is a good thing for men to be deceived ? Don't beat around the bush. If you believe like any normal or rational human being would say NO its not a good thing to be deceived then why don't you say it? If you believe it is a good thing then say that.

To other readers I hope you can see this. Calvinism is a doctrine that has a God that any one who is deceived God deceived them again that God actually did it. The poster I'm talking too DOES NOT want to have to defend his position that God actually is a deceiver (for he believes all things are ordained) so he tried to turn the tables on me saying my question shows I'm seeking to respond against God. He does not want to say what he believes that God deceives everyone and of course he should not want to say such for that it is NOT the character of God. I agree it is not.

That however is what Calvinism puts in you although they use different words but that is essentially where their words take one! My advice to all! If you're into Calvinism flee from it! If you've been uncertain in regard to it see exactly where it's taking you you must ask if you are you willing to embrace a crazy way of thinking that God deceives the whole human race? I trust and hope not! Such a perverse way of thinking is not from God. That sadly is what you have with Calvinism and I'm speaking in regard to T.U.L.I.P.
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My bible tells me that Satan is the deceiver.

Revelation 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

By definition, the Christian God is good and holy and not a deceiver. Therefore, to ask if the Christian God is really deceiving us is to propose a god that is not the Christian God.
 
Brandy said:
My bible tells me that Satan is the deceiver.
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I agree.
Brandy said:
By definition, the Christian God is good and holy and not a deceiver.
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I agree but you take the wraps off Calvinism and that is essentially what they're teaching. Everything is ordained any action that has taken place God intended it to occur.
Brandy said:
Therefore, to ask if the Christian God is really deceiving us is to propose a god that is not the Christian God.
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You have a right to ask a Calvinist that and should if they're claiming everything is ordained by God. Hopefully they can see how preposterous their position really is and depart from it.
 
brightfame52 said:
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Did He come to save the Church, the Body
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You fail to exegete the verse

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

There is no way to make world = elect or the church here
 
brightfame52 said:
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Did He come to save the Church, the Body
Click to expand...
Why does Christ not judge any who do not believe?

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
 
TomL said:
You fail to exegete the verse

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

There is no way to make world = elect or the church here
Click to expand...
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Did He come to save the Church, the Body. You failed to exegete the verse
 
Rockson said:
I agree.

I agree but you take the wraps off Calvinism and that is essentially what they're teaching. Everything is ordained any action that has taken place God intended it to occur.

You have a right to ask a Calvinist that and should if they're claiming everything is ordained by God. Hopefully they can see how preposterous their position really is and depart from it.
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Stranger things have happened. Look at Saul on the road to Damascus. Blinded by the Light.
 
Brandy said:
Stranger things have happened. Look at Saul on the road to Damascus. Blinded by the Light.
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Exactly. If you are given to Jesus by the Father, you WILL come to Him. The will of man has nothing to do with it. I like how Spurgeon put i:

Mark! "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me." Not one of those whom the Father hath given to Jesus shall perish. If any were lost, the text would have to read: "Almost all," or, "All but one;" but it positively says "All," without any exception; even though one may have been, in his unregenerate state, the very chief of sinners.

"But suppose it should be one of those who are living in the interior of Africa, and he does not hear the gospel; what then?" He shall hear the gospel; either he shall come to the gospel, or the gospel shall go to him. Even if no minister should go to such a chosen one, he would have the gospel specially revealed to him rather than that the promise of the Almighty God should be broken.

I also like this part from the same sermon:

I was preaching, not very long ago, at a place in Derbyshire, to a congregation, nearly all of whom were Methodists, and as I preached, they were crying out, "Hallelujah! Glory! Bless the Lord!." They were full of excitement, until I went on to say in my sermon, "This brings me to the doctrine of Election." There was no crying out of "Glory!" and "Hallelujah!" then. Instead, there was a great deal of shaking of the head, and a sort of telegraphing round the place, as though something dreadful was coming. Now, I thought, I must have their attention again, so I said, "You all believe in the doctrine of Election?" "No, we don't, lad," said one. "Yes, you do, and I am going to preach it to you, and make you cry 'Hallelujah!' over it." I am certain they mistrusted my power to do that; so, turning a moment from the subject, I said, "Is there any difference between you and the ungodly world?" "Ay! Ay! Ay!" "Is there any difference between you and the drunkard, the harlot, the blasphemer?" "Ay! Ay! Ay!" Ay! there was a difference indeed. "Well, now," I said, "there is a great difference; who made it, then?" for, whoever made the difference, should have the glory of it. "Did you make the difference?" "No, lad," said one; and the rest all seemed to join in the chorus. "Who made the difference, then? Why, the Lord did it; and did you think it wrong for Him to make a difference between you and other men?" "No, no," they quickly said. "Very well, then; if it was not wrong for God to make the difference, it was not wrong for Him to purpose to make it, and that is the doctrine of Election." Then they cried, "Hallelujah!" as I said they would.
 
brightfame52 said:
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Did He come to save the Church, the Body. You failed to exegete the verse
Click to expand...
Why does Christ not judge any unbeliever

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

There is no way to make world = elect or the church here
 
TomL said:
Why does Christ not judge any unbeliever

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

There is no way to make world = elect or the church here
Click to expand...
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Did He come to save the Church, the Body. You failed to exegete the verse
 
brightfame52 said:
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Did He come to save the Church, the Body. You failed to exegete the verse
Click to expand...
You are running

Why does Christ not judge any unbeliever

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
 
TomL said:
You are running

Why does Christ not judge any unbeliever

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Click to expand...
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Did He come to save the Church, the Body. You failed to exegete the verse
 
John chapter 6 packs several crucial moments into one narrative. The passage states that the events occur "after" the narrative of chapter 5, which turns out to be several months later. This chapter describes the high point of Jesus' worldly popularity. He disrupts this almost immediately by telling the crowd something they do not want to hear. This passage also includes the fourth and fifth of John's seven miraculous signs, the third of John's seven witnesses to Jesus' divinity, and the first of John's seven "I AM" statements ascribed to Jesus.

The gospel of John also skips over a great deal of material which is covered in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Based on the events described, somewhere between 5 and 6 months have passed since the events described in chapter 5. John sticks to his primary purpose, which is explaining how Jesus Christ is, in fact, God incarnate. For this reason, and because he assumes the reader is already familiar with the other Gospels, John skips over both the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus' many parables about the Kingdom. Instead, the opening phrase "after this" brings us to a moment about one year prior to Jesus' trial and crucifixion.

The primary event of this chapter is Jesus' feeding thousands of people with the contents of a boy's small lunch (John 6:9–13). This was the most public of all the miracles Jesus performed, and the one which garnered Him the most immediate worldly acclaim. Each gospel records several miracles performed by Jesus, but this is the only miracle included in all four accounts. The crowd's need for food provokes different reactions from the disciples. Some just want the problem to go away. Some are concerned with money. Some simply bring whatever they can find to Jesus, trusting Him to do the rest.

This practical, generous expression of power is first met with amazement and praise. However, Jesus recognizes that there is a flaw in the crowd's reaction. Rather than seeing the miracle as a sign, the people are merely pleased with the idea of getting a divine handout. This incident not only allows Jesus to teach important truths about Himself, it also demonstrates some of the spiritual barriers which keep us from properly seeking God. In response to His miracle, the people regress from seeking, to complaining, to bickering, and finally to abandonment.

After sending the disciples to the other side of the Sea of Galilee (John 6:16), Jesus will immediately wipe away the applause of the crowd. Over the course of a long dialogue, moving from the seashore into the synagogue, Jesus attempts to clarify the spiritual meaning behind His recent miracles. This passage is one of the better examples of the concept of ipsissima vox, which simply means that some dialogues in the Bible are recorded as summaries, not word-for-word transcripts. Since this discussion changes locations between verses 25 and 59, it almost certainly involved a longer, more extensive conversation.

The day after feeding thousands and hearing their praises, Jesus tells people that He, Himself, is the Bread from Heaven (John 6:51). By explaining that His ministry is essentially spiritual, not material, Jesus alienates most of those who had been eager to follow Him. This, of course, only goes to prove Jesus' accusation: that the people were not there to learn or to receive truth, but rather to once again be given free food (John 6:26).

In between these two moments of public preaching, John chapter 6 includes the fifth of his seven miraculous signs, as well as a "bonus" miracle. Jesus is seen walking on the water after the disciples' boat encounters a storm (John 6:19). The hidden miracle is the one mentioned in an almost off-handed way: when He is taken into the boat, it is "immediately" at its destination (John 6:21).

The end of chapter 6 features the third of seven instances where someone in the gospel of John professes belief in Jesus' divinity. Here, Peter will refer to Jesus as the "Holy One of God" (John 6:68–69).


The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures
 
TomL said:
but not deceived
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Paul clearly emphasized the fact that he “had seen the Lord on the road and that he had talked to him”

The apostle Paul Was never even close to being deceived, how much of the New Testament did he write? Most of it? Just about.
 

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