brightfame52
Well-known member
It is the Gospel, many have been deceived into believing its from a man
John 6 the context
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it does. In that scripture it does, and in several others
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John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
There is no way to make world = elect or the church here
Rockson
Well-known member
Assuming you're right tell me are they wrong to allow themselves to become deceived? Or I'll ask it this way is it good that they're deceived?
brightfame52
Well-known member
World there is the church, same world in Jn 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
see that ? That world is saved through Him, its a done deal
brightfame52
Well-known member
Man is born deceived,its part of the depraved nature. Paul was deceived before God saved him as well as all the elect Titus 3 3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Sorry to inform you,being deceived is part of being lost !
Sorry, there is no meaning of elect for the term world
and the world is a much broader term
John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
There is no way to make world = elect or the church here
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Did He come to save the Church, the Body
Sorry, there is no meaning of elect for the term world
and the world is a much broader term
John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
There is no way to make world = elect or the church here
Rockson
Well-known member
OK is that a good thing or not a good thing according to you?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Did He come to save the Church, the Body
brightfame52
Well-known member
So you understand now, we born deceived, and only God can undeceive us. He does that for the elect, and they shall never be deceived thereafter Matt 24 24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Rockson
Well-known member
I'm asking you friend and I've asked you twice. Is this a good thing or a bad thing that people are deceived?
Here the world includes any unbeliever
John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
There is no way to make world = elect or the church here
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its a dumb question to me, just shows you are replying against God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its the world there is the church the body He is the Saviour of Eph 5 23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Did He come to save the Church, the Body
Obadiah
Well-known member
Rockson
Well-known member
IT'S NOT a dumb question and you and I both really know why you won't answer it! We'll get to that in a moment.
Now if you were asked a rhetorical question like do fish like to swim you would respond with a resounding YES of course! If you were asked is water wet the answer should be the same with no doubt about it....YES of course!
You were asked is it a good thing or a bad thing that people allow themselves to be deceived or are deceived? Your answer to that should have been a resounding NO! But you won't answer that for YOU KNOW the ramifications this has to your way of thinking that if it's not a good thing for one to be deceived you feel that you're questioning God.....for after all you believe that all things are ordained by him!
I'll give you even another chance and ask you again......do you believe it is a good thing for men to be deceived ? Don't beat around the bush. If you believe like any normal or rational human being would say NO its not a good thing to be deceived then why don't you say it? If you believe it is a good thing then say that.
To other readers I hope you can see this. Calvinism is a doctrine that has a God that any one who is deceived God deceived them again that God actually did it. The poster I'm talking too DOES NOT want to have to defend his position that God actually is a deceiver (for he believes all things are ordained) so he tried to turn the tables on me saying my question shows I'm seeking to respond against God. He does not want to say what he believes that God deceives everyone and of course he should not want to say such for that it is NOT the character of God. I agree it is not.
That however is what Calvinism puts in you although they use different words but that is essentially where their words take one! My advice to all! If you're into Calvinism flee from it! If you've been uncertain in regard to it see exactly where it's taking you you must ask if you are you willing to embrace a crazy way of thinking that God deceives the whole human race? I trust and hope not! Such a perverse way of thinking is not from God. That sadly is what you have with Calvinism and I'm speaking in regard to T.U.L.I.P.
civic
Well-known member
Amen
