Dizerner
Well-known member
Is Penal Substitution illegal or immoral??
www.christian-thinktank.com
Just to put the source here.
Isaiah 53 the origin of PSA
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Just to put the source here.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Suffer for sins—logically has to mean suffer what sins deserve.
Suffer for sins—logically has to mean suffer what sins deserve.
Suffer for sins—logically has to mean suffer what sins deserve.
Suffer for sins—logically has to mean suffer what sins deserve.
"case closed"
civic
Well-known member
both
Johann
Well-known member
it is the only biblical truth to be found in Scriptures-you want the source?
Is Penal Substitution illegal or immoral??
www.christian-thinktank.com
Deep reading and discernment required brother.
Johann
Well-known member
With Galatians as my guide on Gods Characteristics I do not understand justice that requires a putting aside of most of the Holy Spirit traits and adopting a trait of the flesh (wrath).Why must justice do away with Love, Peace, Gentleness, Kindness and adopt the trait that is considered sinful (wrath)? Why cannot justice be dictated by these traits instead of abolishing these traits?
Often, of course, the issue is stated more starkly, with comparisons between God of the bible and angry Greek deities, capricious (and bi-polar or manic) ANE gods, or the worst sorts of humankind (those that lose their tempers when they don't get their way).
Unfortunately, the English language and western culture clouds this issue a good bit, since the concepts involved in the biblical portrayal of God (passages in which these words are used) are difficult to translate into single words.
What this means for us, is that we have to actually EXAMINE the Hebrew and Greek words that are translated as wrath*.*, jealous*, and veng-a-whatever, and see what they mean in context.
The three major terms occur in various combinations (they seem to be closely related), but Nahum 1.2 is perhaps representative:
The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies.
So, let's go through them one at a time: jealousy, wrath, and then vengeance:
..........................................................................................................................
But one quick piece of prolegomena (I promise it will be quick, really): the bible consistently portrays God as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme. The bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the Living One, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.
One scholar put it thus:
"The Bible speaks unashamedly of Yahweh's passion, presenting him as an intense and passionate Being, fervently interested in the world of humans. Not only is there no embarrassment on the part of the OT at Yahweh's possession of emotion, but rather, it is celebrated (see for example, 2 Sam 22:8, 9, 16; Ps 145:8). In fact, his passion guarantees not only that he is intensely interested in the world but that he is a person. This in turn opens up the possibility for communion at the heart of the universe. Therefore, his passion was seen to be continually linked with the implementation of his resolve, and in this, interaction with the world. The God of the OT desired fellowship and interaction with the other persons in his world, and his anger was seen to be part of the actualization of that desire. [NIDOTTE:4.280, s.v. "Anger: Theology"]
[This, I might add, is so fundamental to understanding the bible (and knowing God, obviously!)--although rarified versions of systematic and/or philosophical theology have been (and, are still) known to hold to varied forms of an 'impassible god'. Needless to say, such theological constructs have an interesting challenge in dealing with the wide range of anthropopathic language in the bible, and with squaring with our actual experience of a Personal God in our lives. The philosophical issues involved here are not germane--the question at hand is how the biblical data portrays God.]
For all the emotions I can think of, the bible takes the position that such emotions can be appropriate responses to situations OR inappropriate responses to situations (when the emotion is deliberately sustained, of course). Pity can be quite inappropriate (e.g., when it is the dominant emotion controlling how one deals with active, willful, violent oppressors, instead of for those being victimized by them), and outrage can be quite appropriate in situations of moral and human atrocity (e.g., child abuse, rape, violent crimes against the elderly, vandalism against the poor, extortion of the helpless).
Likewise, the bible argues that (like us people) emotions are not 'mutually exclusive and exhaustive' at any given moment. Just as my mom could have felt affection, anger, compassion, frustration, confusion, helplessness, hopefulness and despair(!)--ALL AT THE SAME MOMENT--when I was still a teenager living in her home (embarrassed grin), so too can we and so too can God. God is frequently described in these terms in the Prophets--His love for His people Israel (compassion and affection) is simultaneously experienced by Him as His anger (at their intra-Israel atrocities) and His hopefulness (that they will 'wake up' to treating one another better, in keeping with the Covenant contract they "signed" together as a community!). Hosea 11:8ff is so very vivid (and moving) in showing the struggles in the heart of God. There is no intrinsic contradiction in ascribing multiple emotional states to a person, since we consistently experience these in our lives. And God, as a Person, is apparently no different in that respect...
For example, God is said to be "angry with the wicked every day." Since "wickedness," in biblical terms, is generally related to treachery, atrocity, and oppression, I would HOPE God would be disturbed by this. But at the same time, the bible says that God is "patient" with them (hoping they will 'come around' and re-join the community in love and contribution) and even "nurturing" (i.e., leading them/influencing them in that direction). His moral anger at personal evil, of course, has nothing to do with Him being 'caught off guard' or surprised by it(!), since His response is the treachery involved--NOT the circumstances of it. Even my experience illustrates this aspect. I know quite well that in the future I will read (yet another) story of human atrocity, be it on an individual scale (such as rape, child abuse, or brutalization) or group scale (such as ethnic violence, religious persecution, or economic exploitation), so there is no element of 'surprise' in my response when I actually encounter the story. I KNOW I will be upset when I read it...
(see, I told you it was quick)
Dizerner
Well-known member
Yes, I would recommend always adding the link at the end so people can see where it came from and research the original material and organizations.
Just a nice thing to do.
civic
Well-known member
No sin results in death not wrath. Equivocating again .
Johann
Well-known member
Yes I do-but most don't read links-unless otherwise stated-Berean Bible Society-Grace Ambassadors-Bible.org is my number 1 go to since I have hundreds of links.
Shalom
J.
Johann
Well-known member
To whom was the question?
civic
Well-known member
Argument from silence fallacy
Dizerner
Well-known member
Argument from silence fallacy
Except.
It's not a fallacy.
THE LAW BRINGS WRATH.
Still not dealt with.
Johann
Well-known member
Judicial WrathExcept.
It's not a fallacy.
THE LAW BRINGS WRATH.
God’s wrath is part and parcel of his judgment against wrongdoing, injustice and evil. A few times his judgment and justice was administered quickly (Acts 5:1-11; Acts 13:8-12). However, you should picture God like an old English judge who wears a red robe, white collar, ribbon-tie, and white wig. He systemaaaaaaaatically and methoooooooodically and slooooooooowly gathers, sifts, weighs the evidence and then renders his verdict. What kind of human judge would it be if he simply let the guilty go without paying a fine or spending time in prison? God instituted justice – including punishment against lawbreakers – down here on earth because it reflects his just character. That is called the judicial wrath of God.
Therefore, God expressing wrath is not like a human losing his temper. God does not flash with anger and throw an unsuspecting, nearby angel across the universe before God can think straight. “Sorry, I lost my temper! I reacted without thinking!” No, he does not lash out. This is crude literalism and human-centered thinking.
Rather, God would not be the God of justice if he let wrongs slide by undealt with, just like a parent would be derelict if she let her children get away with everything. Her giving them a timeout or even a spanking without losing her temper is a (weak) equivalent to God’s perfect, unmistakable, error-free wrath.
This is why he shows wrath, to punish wrong and evil:
The Lord is slow to anger and great in power;
the Lord will not leave the guilty unpunished. (Nah. 1:3)
I will discipline you but only with justice;
I will not let you go entirely unpunished. (Jer. 30:11)
Therefore, God’s wrath is never mysterious, irrational, malicious, spiteful, or vindictive. It is predictable because it is aroused by injustice, lawbreaking and evil – and that alone.
Old v. New Covenants
Paul had an interesting, and I say profound, insight that is hidden away in his epistle to the Romans; it hardly gets noticed. Rom. 4:15 says, “The law brings wrath”; the law here is the Law of Moses or the Torah. So I set out on a study of how that’s true.
I concluded that of the 499 that God showed wrath in the OT, he shows it against his people 448 times after the Law of Moses was thundered down on Mt. Sinai, beginning in Exod. 19.
On his chosen people before the law and covenant in Exod. 19, he showed it 3 times. Abraham potentially could have experienced it twice, but did not because God through his angels showed him mercy (Gen. 18:30-32). So actually it was used only once against Moses, the lawgiver, in Exod. 4:14.
Yes, the number of chapters before Exod. 19 is much smaller than the ones afterwards, but there is other evidence that I don’t have time to go over now (click on The Wrath of God in the Old Testament). It confirms the numbers.
Law and justice are tied to covenant in the OT. Two parties voluntarily enter into an agreement. The powerful partner (God) promised to keep them safe and bless their agricultural life, their resources. He also instituted the priesthood to teach them how to keep the law, and he set up the sacrificial system administered by the priests for when the people sinned. The righteous party (God) forgave their sins over and over again, for centuries. He sent prophets to warn them and remind them of their agreement.
But sometimes the human party to the covenant went so far in their bad faith, they broke the law so egregiously for centuries, the aggrieved party (God) finally took action. He judged and punished them, but not in his full wrath and not to destroy them. And after this painful judicial process – painful to him – he still forgave and loved them. He was merciful to his chosen lawbreakers. This is the perfect blend of mercy and justice. This is the story of God’s wrath in the OT, in a nutshell – and we haven’t discussed what kind of lawbreaking they did, acting like the unwholesome (to say the least) nations around them.
After my long study, Paul’s thesis was confirmed: the Law of Moses brings wrath.
That’s still puzzling, however. Why did God’s law bring wrath against his covenant people? Paul says in Romans there is something flawed with the mixture of religious law (which is holy), covenant (a beneficial relationship), and unholy human nature (the fatal flaw). Law stimulates sin in sinful human beings (Rom. 7:7-13). And sin within a covenant accompanied by laws amounts to lawbreaking. And lawbreaking must be judged and punished. As noted, that’s called God’s judicial wrath. It must be noted that God is not an unfeeling android when he shows judicial wrath. When his human creation rebels and commits evil and injustice, he feels sadness and pain at having to correct them (= wrath).
Now what about his people in the New Covenant?
One goal (among several) of Romans is to teach us how to avoid the wrath to come. The way out is through the gospel by faith in Christ. “For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: ‘The righteous will live by faith’” (Rom. 1:17).
Then we are set free from God’s wrath. “Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!” (Rom. 5:9). For Paul, all peoples, Jew and Gentile, should come to faith in Christ and walk in the Spirit within the New Covenant, which Christ paid for and ratified with his blood.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. … 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (Gal. 5:18, Gal. 5:22-23)
So in the New Covenant, God has not destined his Spirit-filled, blood-bought church for his wrath.
His wrath is tied to eschatology, which means a shift towards the new era of salvation that came with Christ’s death, resurrection and glorification and the outpouring of his Spirit at Pentecost. Eschatology also means a movement towards the Last Days. It is in this context that his New Covenant community and church (the same thing) is not destined for wrath.
Jesus … rescues us from the coming wrath. (1 Thess. 1:9-10)
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:9)
The Wrath Of God In The New Testament: Never Against His New Covenant Community | Bible.org
“Lack of wrath against wickedness is a lack of caring, which is a lack of love” (p. 23 or 160). Down here on earth, as it is now in its sinful state, you can’t have love without anger against injustice and evil.
Johann
Well-known member
However-that being said--
Wrath on Individuals
However, in a few contexts we will discover that God evaluates an individual as he walks with God. Sometimes the individual has such a deep character flaw and sins so egregiously that he must go through a “dealing” from God. For example, he will show anger – evaluating you and concluding you need correction – when you refuse to show mercy and forgive, though you were shown both. Next, one time Jesus showed indignation (personal reaction that opposes wrong behavior) against his disciples who tried to block children from seeing him. Finally, God institutes law enforcement and the courts, and they are agents of God’s wrath. If a Christian commits a crime, then his arrest and incarceration is God’s wrath.
Remember, wrath means judgment against injustice, wrongdoing, and sin. Specifically, judgment is an evaluation and correction in your personal life. In a court of law it is trying the facts and reaching a verdict and then sentencing the guilty and punishing him. In the Old Covenant, wrath means judging lawbreakers who violate the Law of Moses within the covenant. But in your personal life it just means God scanning your soul and disciplining you (Heb. 12:5-11).
Wrap Up So Far
To repeat this important point, the Spirit-filled, blood-washed church as a whole, in an eschatological context, is not destined for the wrath of God that is falling on the world because of its lawbreaking, sin, and evil. They are not in Christ and his protection, but we are.
So the two contexts are micro (an individual) and macro (the church v. the world). God shows wrath on the world, but not on the church as a whole in the macro. In the micro, in your personal life, where there is evaluation and correction, there is always forgiveness and restoration.
Thus God’s wrath for the individual believer in Christ has turned into correction (Heb. 12:4-11). This is one more reason why the individual must belong to a church. There is protection in a Spirit-filled, loving community, mainly protection from his own sin nature. Outside of the church he risks a sinful lifestyle and eventually severe correction from God himself or through Satan (1 Cor. 5:5; 1 Tim. 1:20), but always with the redemptive purpose of restoring him. We hope and pray that restoration is indeed always the result as well, but sadly, from 1 Corinthians11:30 we know that sometimes this is not the case.
Finally, I talk about the bigger biblical perspective in the conclusion section, below. Love and mercy and grace and forgiveness and redemption are much more predominant themes in the entire Bible, both Old and New, than wrath is – much bigger themes.
But let’s focus on the topic at hand.
Biblical Definitions and Texts
Remember, in this study we’re talking about God’s wrath, not ours; yes, the Bible speaks about human anger and sometimes favorably (Eph. 4:26). Jesus is included in this study, since he represents God, and in two instances Peter and Paul represent God too, in their special calling.
Definitions and Word Counts
Orgê (noun, 29 times): the g or gamma in Greek is hard, like ego, and the e with the accent over it is pronounced like the vowel sound in eight; this noun is the most common and the standard word for anger or wrath.
Orgizô (verb, 3 times): it is related to orgê and means to become or get or be angry. The accent over the o means it is the long o or the “omega.”
Aganakteô (verb, 1 time): this means to be or become indignant. I see this verb as meaning being personally upset and opposing wrong and meanness, usually against people who should know better. Their mean behavior was unexpected and unworthy of them.
Thumos (noun, 8 times): this is often used of humans in very strong, often bad sense; it is used of God only as a synonym for orgê very few times or in the Revelation. A few times the NIV translates it as fury in Revelation.
Prosochthizô (verb, 2 times): this is to provoke or be provoked to anger
Grand Total: 42 times, used of God
I use the Q & A format.
1. WHO EARNS GOD’S WRATH?
A. RELIGIOUS OPPRESSORS AND SELF-RIGHTEOUS HINDERERS
John the Baptist speaks judgment-wrath on this class of people. The coming wrath means that it’s on its way, at the advent or coming of the ministry of Jesus, who will lay an axe to the roots and make people decide yes or no about his gospel. It is eschatological in the sense of the new era being inaugurated with Christ. And there is no reason why it can’t envelope the Final Judgment, if people persist to resist.
7 But when he saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You offspring of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? [orgê]? (Matt. 3:7; cf. Luke 3:7)
Jesus was angry at religious people who stopped – or tried to stop – the fullness of the kingdom, which included healing (and still does) – from reaching people.
2 They watched Jesus closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they could accuse him. After looking around at them in anger [orgê], grieved by the hardness of their hearts, he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored. (Mark 3:2, Mark 3:5)
B. REJECTERS OF CHRIST AND HIS GOSPEL
Many people rejected the gospel, but here is a verse that says wrath remains on them. Wrath of God remaining on them means that they live within the sphere of his evaluation and correction or discipline – he would like to correct them by bringing them to the gospel of his Son. Will they see it? Will they come and have eternal life?
36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath [orgê] remains on him. (John 3:36)
C. THE UNGODLY AND WICKED
In the next passage, the word wrath is not mentioned, but it is about a judgment and punishment. It is ironic that Elymas believed he could point people towards the truth. Not so. Elymas was spiritually and morally blind, so he was blinded. Let’s hope Elymas repented after the time of blindness was up. However, since wrath as such is not mentioned, you don’t have to include this passage in the discussion.
8 But the magician Elymas (for that is the way his name is translated) opposed them, trying to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 But Saul (also known as Paul), filled with the Holy Spirit, stared straight at him 10 and said, “You who are full of all deceit and all wrongdoing, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness – will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord? 11 Now look, the hand of the Lord is against you, and you will be blind, unable to see the sun for a time!” Immediately mistiness and darkness came over him, and he went around seeking people to lead him by the hand. 12 Then when the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, because he was greatly astounded at the teaching about the Lord. (Acts 13:8-12)
In the next verse the clause is being revealed is in the present tense. There’s a sense in which God’s judgment-wrath is currently and gradually being revealed in ungodly and wicked men’s lives. But he is also leading them to repentance by showing them kindness (Rom. 2:4).
18 For the wrath [orgê] of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness (Rom. 1:18)
Note the day of God’s wrath in the next passage. That’s the Final Judgment. Once again wrath and judgment are connected.
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath [orgê] against yourself for the day of God’s wrath [orgê], when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath [orgê] and anger [thumos]. (Rom. 2:5-8)
bible.org
Wrath on Individuals
However, in a few contexts we will discover that God evaluates an individual as he walks with God. Sometimes the individual has such a deep character flaw and sins so egregiously that he must go through a “dealing” from God. For example, he will show anger – evaluating you and concluding you need correction – when you refuse to show mercy and forgive, though you were shown both. Next, one time Jesus showed indignation (personal reaction that opposes wrong behavior) against his disciples who tried to block children from seeing him. Finally, God institutes law enforcement and the courts, and they are agents of God’s wrath. If a Christian commits a crime, then his arrest and incarceration is God’s wrath.
Remember, wrath means judgment against injustice, wrongdoing, and sin. Specifically, judgment is an evaluation and correction in your personal life. In a court of law it is trying the facts and reaching a verdict and then sentencing the guilty and punishing him. In the Old Covenant, wrath means judging lawbreakers who violate the Law of Moses within the covenant. But in your personal life it just means God scanning your soul and disciplining you (Heb. 12:5-11).
Wrap Up So Far
To repeat this important point, the Spirit-filled, blood-washed church as a whole, in an eschatological context, is not destined for the wrath of God that is falling on the world because of its lawbreaking, sin, and evil. They are not in Christ and his protection, but we are.
So the two contexts are micro (an individual) and macro (the church v. the world). God shows wrath on the world, but not on the church as a whole in the macro. In the micro, in your personal life, where there is evaluation and correction, there is always forgiveness and restoration.
Thus God’s wrath for the individual believer in Christ has turned into correction (Heb. 12:4-11). This is one more reason why the individual must belong to a church. There is protection in a Spirit-filled, loving community, mainly protection from his own sin nature. Outside of the church he risks a sinful lifestyle and eventually severe correction from God himself or through Satan (1 Cor. 5:5; 1 Tim. 1:20), but always with the redemptive purpose of restoring him. We hope and pray that restoration is indeed always the result as well, but sadly, from 1 Corinthians11:30 we know that sometimes this is not the case.
Finally, I talk about the bigger biblical perspective in the conclusion section, below. Love and mercy and grace and forgiveness and redemption are much more predominant themes in the entire Bible, both Old and New, than wrath is – much bigger themes.
But let’s focus on the topic at hand.
Biblical Definitions and Texts
Remember, in this study we’re talking about God’s wrath, not ours; yes, the Bible speaks about human anger and sometimes favorably (Eph. 4:26). Jesus is included in this study, since he represents God, and in two instances Peter and Paul represent God too, in their special calling.
Definitions and Word Counts
Orgê (noun, 29 times): the g or gamma in Greek is hard, like ego, and the e with the accent over it is pronounced like the vowel sound in eight; this noun is the most common and the standard word for anger or wrath.
Orgizô (verb, 3 times): it is related to orgê and means to become or get or be angry. The accent over the o means it is the long o or the “omega.”
Aganakteô (verb, 1 time): this means to be or become indignant. I see this verb as meaning being personally upset and opposing wrong and meanness, usually against people who should know better. Their mean behavior was unexpected and unworthy of them.
Thumos (noun, 8 times): this is often used of humans in very strong, often bad sense; it is used of God only as a synonym for orgê very few times or in the Revelation. A few times the NIV translates it as fury in Revelation.
Prosochthizô (verb, 2 times): this is to provoke or be provoked to anger
Grand Total: 42 times, used of God
I use the Q & A format.
1. WHO EARNS GOD’S WRATH?
A. RELIGIOUS OPPRESSORS AND SELF-RIGHTEOUS HINDERERS
John the Baptist speaks judgment-wrath on this class of people. The coming wrath means that it’s on its way, at the advent or coming of the ministry of Jesus, who will lay an axe to the roots and make people decide yes or no about his gospel. It is eschatological in the sense of the new era being inaugurated with Christ. And there is no reason why it can’t envelope the Final Judgment, if people persist to resist.
7 But when he saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You offspring of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? [orgê]? (Matt. 3:7; cf. Luke 3:7)
Jesus was angry at religious people who stopped – or tried to stop – the fullness of the kingdom, which included healing (and still does) – from reaching people.
2 They watched Jesus closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they could accuse him. After looking around at them in anger [orgê], grieved by the hardness of their hearts, he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored. (Mark 3:2, Mark 3:5)
B. REJECTERS OF CHRIST AND HIS GOSPEL
Many people rejected the gospel, but here is a verse that says wrath remains on them. Wrath of God remaining on them means that they live within the sphere of his evaluation and correction or discipline – he would like to correct them by bringing them to the gospel of his Son. Will they see it? Will they come and have eternal life?
36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath [orgê] remains on him. (John 3:36)
C. THE UNGODLY AND WICKED
In the next passage, the word wrath is not mentioned, but it is about a judgment and punishment. It is ironic that Elymas believed he could point people towards the truth. Not so. Elymas was spiritually and morally blind, so he was blinded. Let’s hope Elymas repented after the time of blindness was up. However, since wrath as such is not mentioned, you don’t have to include this passage in the discussion.
8 But the magician Elymas (for that is the way his name is translated) opposed them, trying to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 But Saul (also known as Paul), filled with the Holy Spirit, stared straight at him 10 and said, “You who are full of all deceit and all wrongdoing, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness – will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord? 11 Now look, the hand of the Lord is against you, and you will be blind, unable to see the sun for a time!” Immediately mistiness and darkness came over him, and he went around seeking people to lead him by the hand. 12 Then when the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, because he was greatly astounded at the teaching about the Lord. (Acts 13:8-12)
In the next verse the clause is being revealed is in the present tense. There’s a sense in which God’s judgment-wrath is currently and gradually being revealed in ungodly and wicked men’s lives. But he is also leading them to repentance by showing them kindness (Rom. 2:4).
18 For the wrath [orgê] of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness (Rom. 1:18)
Note the day of God’s wrath in the next passage. That’s the Final Judgment. Once again wrath and judgment are connected.
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath [orgê] against yourself for the day of God’s wrath [orgê], when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath [orgê] and anger [thumos]. (Rom. 2:5-8)
The Wrath Of God In The New Testament: Never Against His New Covenant Community | Bible.org
“Lack of wrath against wickedness is a lack of caring, which is a lack of love” (p. 23 or 160). Down here on earth, as it is now in its sinful state, you can’t have love without anger against injustice and evil.
Johann
Well-known member
A "gentle, brotherly tit for tat" eh?Except.
It's not a fallacy.
THE LAW BRINGS WRATH.
civic
Well-known member
Nope it brings death as a result of sin. Death came from sin.Except.
It's not a fallacy.
THE LAW BRINGS WRATH.
