Isaiah 41:4 "‘I, YHWH , am the first, and with the last. I am he (ἐγώ εἰμι)’ "
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101G
Well-known member
hello, that's my point........ my OWN ARM, the suffering servant, God in flesh..... HELP Lord Jesus open their eyes, so that they may see the TRUTH.
101G.
Johann
Well-known member
You have a little problem here @101G -"teeny weeny" problem-
Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
Look up PROS in Hebrew and Greek brother-
Joh 1:1 In the beginning the Word existed; and the Word was face to face with God; yea, the Word was God Himself.
Williams.
the beginning: Joh_1:2; Gen_1:1; Pro_8:22-31; Eph_3:9; Col_1:17; Heb_1:10, Heb_7:3, Heb_13:8; Rev_1:2, Rev_1:8, Rev_1:11, Rev_2:8, Rev_21:6, Rev_22:13
the Word: Joh_1:14; 1Jn_1:1-2, 1Jn_5:7; Rev_19:13
with: Joh_1:18, Joh_16:28, Joh_17:5; Pro_8:22-30; 1Jn_1:2
the Word was: Joh_10:30-33, Joh_20:28; Psa_45:6; Isa_7:14, Isa_9:6, Isa_40:9-11; Mat_1:23; Rom_9:5; Php_2:6; 1Ti_3:16; Tit_2:13; Heb_1:8-13; 2Pe_1:1 *Gr: 1Jn_5:7, 1Jn_5:20
Look up the Scripture references brother as we need to rightly divide and be consistent in exegesis.
1:1 "In the beginning" This reflects Genesis 1:1 and is also used in 1 John 1:1 as a reference to the incarnation. It is possible that 1 John was a cover letter to the Gospel. Both deal with Gnosticism. John 1:1-5 is an affirmation of Jesus Christ's divine pre-existence before creation (cf. John 1:15,30; 8:56-59; 16:28; 17:5,24; 2 Cor. 8:9; Phil. 2:6-7; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3; 10:5-9 quotes Ps. 40:6-8).
In the NT Jesus is described as
a new creation, not marred by the Fall (i.e., Gen. 3:15 fulfilled for mankind)
a new conquest (Promised Land)
a new exodus (fulfilled prophecy)
a new Moses (law giver)
a new Joshua (cf. Heb. 4:8)
a new water miracle (cf. Hebrews 3-4)
new manna (cf. John 6)
and so many more, especially in Hebrews.
"was"
(thrice) This is an IMPERFECT TENSE (cf. John 1:1,2,4,10) which focuses on continual existence in past time. This TENSE is used to show the Logos' pre-existence (cf. John 8:57-58; 17:5,24; 2 Cor. 8:9; Col. 1:17; Heb. 10:5-9). It is contrasted with the AORIST TENSES of John 1:3 (i.e., creation), 6 (i.e., John the Baptist, and 14 (i.e., the incarnation).
"the Word"
The Greek term logos referred to a message, not just a single word. In this context it is a title which the Greeks used to describe "world reason" and the Hebrews as analogus with "Wisdom." John chose this term to assert that God's Word is both a person and a message.
"with God"
"With" could be paraphrased "face to face." It depicts intimate fellowship. It also points toward the concept of one divine essence and three personal eternal manifestations. The NT asserts the paradox that Jesus is separate from the Father, but also that He is one with the Father.
"the Word was God"
This VERB is IMPERFECT TENSE as in John 1:1a.
There is no ARTICLE (which identifies the SUBJECT, see F. F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, p. 66) with Theos, but Theos is placed first in the Greek phrase for emphasis. This verse and John 1:18 are strong statements of the full deity of the pre-existent Logos (cf. John 5:18; 8:58; 10:30; 14:9; 17:11; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1).
Jesus is fully divine as well as fully human (cf. 1 John 4:1-3). He is not the same as God the Father, but He is the very same divine essence as the Father.
Remember I asked you to look up the morphologies of words-and not the meaning of certain words per se?
Shalom brother
Johann.
Johann
Well-known member
I am three steps ahead brother-look at post #23.
J.
101G
Well-known member
have you heard of the ECHAD? my God J.....
did you not read? Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." so that so-called face to face is nothing but the ECHAD in the EQUAL SHARE of himself in flesh, that was to come...... "the LAST"..... 101G just cannot believe the totality of loss of common sense here.
ERROR, With is "ALSO", same one person.
Oh my......
101G.
101G
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
Yes-I know the difference between Echad and Yachid.
let's drop this conversation as it is going nowhere brother.
J.
Johann
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
Now THIS is error @101G-but no worries.
pros G4314 [before, at, near, toward, etc.]
A. With Genitive. The general sense of pros is "before" With the genitive it normally expresses going out "from," but in the one use in Act_27:34 it has the transferred sense of "being essential for" (cf. 1Cl. 20:10).
B. With Dative.
1. Spatially pros with the dative denotes
a. place, "before," "at," "by," or "about," and
b. direction, "to.'
2. Quantitatively it means "besides," but this use does not occur in the NT.
C. With Accusative.
1. Spatially, the common use of pros with the accusative, expressing movement toward, occurs
a. with an intransitive verb, e.g., going to or entering (but not with a mystical sense; cf. Rev_3:20; Joh_7:33);
b. with a transitive verb, e.g., sending, bringing, leading, etc., often in the NT with theological significance, e.g., when Jesus on the cross draws people to himself (Joh_12:32), or when there is access to the Father (Eph_2:18), or turning to the Lord or to God (2Co_3:16; 1Th_1:9), or adherence to idols (1Co_12:2);
c. passively with a verb of motion denoting "at" or "by" (cf. Mar_1:33; Mar_11:4; Mar_14:54; Mat_3:10), although loosely the same idea may be present without a verb (cf. Mat_13:56), sometimes with an assumed movement (Mat_26:18; 2Co_7:12; the formulas in Mar_2:2; Rom_15:17; Mat_27:4);
d. with associated verbs of sending and speaking to denote bringing or imparting a message (Mat_27:19; Mar_3:31; without the verb of speaking, Act_10:33) .
2. Psychologically, in the sense "to," "toward," pros occurs with verbs of speaking to denote "saying something to someone" (e.g., Luk_1:13; Act_1:7; with a special reference to God's direct address and hence the assigning of a definite position or task, Rom_10:21; Heb_1:8; in the phrase pros ti , "with reference to," Luk_18:1; with verbs of praying or blaspheming; with God or Jesus as object, Act_8:24; Rev_13:6); b. with verbs or nouns expressing an attitude, either friendly (2Co_3:4; 2Ti_2:24), hostile (Luk_5:30; Act_6:1), or neutral (Act_24:16).
3. Temporally, pros with the accusative expresses
a. approach to a point in time (Luk_24:29);
b. a period, e.g., "for a while" (Luk_8:13), "for a few days" (Heb_12:10), usually with a future reference.
4. Finally, pros
a. denotes the aim of an action, "with a view to" or even "for the sake of," e.g., Joh_11:4; Act_3:10; Rom_15:2; 1Co_7:35, often with an infinitive, e.g., Mat_6:1, or elliptically, e.g., Luk_14:32; Joh_13:28;
b. expresses "attaining or corresponding to" (cf. Luk_12:47; Mat_19:8).
5. Consecutively, the use with the accusative denotes "up to" or "so that," e.g., "white enough for harvest" in Joh_4:35, leading "to the satisfaction of the flesh" in Col_2:23, "to the point of envy" in Jas_4:5, "resulting in death" in 1Jn_5:16, "to the point of lust" in Mat_5:28.
[B. REICKE]
Reference To:
prosago
prosagoge
agoge
prosanatithemi
anatithemi
prosdeomai
deomai
prosdechomai
dechomai
J.
Johann
Well-known member
My time-
THE TRINITY
Notice the activity of all three Persons of the Trinity in unified contexts. The term "trinity," first coined by Tertullian, is not a biblical word, but the concept is pervasive.
A. the Gospels
1. Matt. 3:16-17; 28:19 (and parallels)
2. John 14:26
B. Acts – Acts 2:32-33, 38-39
C. Paul
1. Rom. 1:4-5; 5:1,5; 8:1-4,8-10
2. 1 Cor. 2:8-10; 12:4-6
3. 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 13:14
4. Gal. 4:4-6
5. Eph. 1:3-14,17; 2:18; 3:14-17; 4:4-6
6. 1 Thess. 1:2-5
7. 2 Thess. 2:13
8. Titus 3:4-6
D. Peter – 1 Pet. 1:2
E. Jude – vv. 20-21
A plurality in God is hinted at in the OT.
A. Use of plurals for God
1. Name Elohim is plural , but when used of God always has a singular verb
2. "Us" in Genesis 1:26-27; 3:22; 11:7
B. "The Angel of the Lord" was a visible representative of Deity
1. Genesis 16:7-13; 22:11-15; 31:11,13; 48:15-16
2. Exodus 3:2,4; 13:21; 14:19
3. Judges 2:1; 6:22-23; 13:3-22
4. Zechariah 3:1-2
C. God and His Spirit are separate, Gen. 1:1-2; Ps. 104:30; Isa. 63:9-11; Ezek. 37:13-14
D. God (YHWH) and Messiah (Adon) are separate, Ps. 45:6-7; 110:1; Zech. 2:8-11; 10:9-12
E. The Messiah and the Spirit are separate, Zech. 12:10
F. All three are mentioned in Isa. 48:16; 61:1
The Deity of Jesus and the personality of the Spirit caused problems for the strict, monotheistic early believers.
1. Tertullian – subordinated the Son to the Father
2. Origen – subordinated the divine essence of the Son and the Spirit
3. Arius – denied Deity to the Son and Spirit
4. Monarchianism – believed in a successive chronological manifestation of the one God as Father, then Son, and then Spirit
The Trinity is a historically developed formulation informed by the biblical material.
1. the full Deity of Jesus, equal to the Father, was affirmed in a.d. 325 by the Council of Nicea (cf. John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Titus 2:13)
2. the full personality and Deity of the Spirit equal to the Father and Son was affirmed in a.d. 381 by the Council of Constantinople
3. the doctrine of the Trinity is fully expressed in Augustine's work De Trinitate
There is truly mystery here. But the NT affirms one divine essence (monotheism) with three eternal personal manifestations (Father, Son, and Spirit).
J.
Johann
Well-known member
Never once hinted that God was a created being-I am aware some of my posts are lengthy and requires a thoughtful reading.
101G
Well-known member
no problem, now if you KNOW God is not a created being, why believe he is three persons, that's just as bad. was that created, (3 in 1), in your brain by men? why not believe God...... Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," he is a single person.
when the Lord Jesus say God is a "he" and you yet believe that he is three, not only is you disrespectful, but disobedient and still in the sin of IGNORANCE.
if 101G were you, and heard what the Lord Jesus said, "God is a he". the first thing 101G would do is this.... 1 believe the Lord Jesus. 2 go and find out why the bible said, US and OUR in Genesis 1:26 and find out the truth why he, one person, is referred to a Plurality... and UNDERSTAND the TRUTH of God.
or U can do nothing and keep on believing a lie of men. that's your choice. but you owe it to yourself to Learn and KNOW the TRUTH.
101G.
